Robbery Roleplay

[Smilesville]

19 hours ago, yerro said:

Let me just chime in here to address this part of the post and ask you something back. Does that plan of action have to include getting an own weapon? How many people do you think would go for that, especially given their first-hand experience with robberies?

 

How many would seek to be more careful, change their neighborhood if it's a bad one (move to another district or even city), or seek IC ways to solve it like reporting it to the police, getting neighbors on board with the need to have heightened measures against muggings (increased patrol presence, CCTV, non-sworn officer patrols, etc)?

Never mind that the issue with robberies is of an OOC making - let's address each of these in turn.

1. Why not simply change neighborhood? We have an artificially inflated housing market due to the small number of properties available. Add that to the fact that there's a cap on how much the property can sell for, and you've got a seller's market what borders on no market at all. It's a "rock and a hard place" scenario for the property team. Any further than that, and you're talking about encouraging players to effectively quit the game or play a character who'd thrive in such a city rife with violent crime.
2. Why not report it to the police? Because, as in real life, they're probably not going to catch the person who did it. For reference, muggings have about a 10% clearance rate - that is, they catch up with the perpetrator one in ten times. I'm willing to bet the percentage on the server is even lower - not through any fault of the police, but by the sheer structural advantage robbers have. Not inspiring.
3. What about a neighborhood watch? Most players aren't even aware of who their neighbors are - but not for lack of trying. The number of opportunities you have to interact with your neighbor IRL is far greater than in game. Even if this came into being, however, what good would that do without armed watchmen? Is your solution really for people to form armed neighborhood watch militias?

Quote

 I'm just saying, you seem to be focusing on "get a gun and blast them fools" as the only response.

 

But hey, if you ask me, I think the part you're separating this into victims and robbers makes it an even greater issue. You haven't really been willing to accept my position on that earlier though. 😕 

There's frankly no other response that will register with people who're poorly motivated by an OOC asset grab. When the scales of risk versus reward tip against them and they begin losing guns left and right with nothing to show for it, the frequency of robberies will drop - and at present, that's one of the only IC reactions I can see making an impact on such an OOC issue.

 

I understand you've only been playing for two months or so - that amount of time may not be giving you a proper understanding of the sheer breadth of the issue, which is why I definitely cannot accept the position you take of simply ignoring the issue. That's what most of us have been doing for years. Trust me when I say that if there were an IC solution to the OOC problem, it would have been found.

[DLimit]

5 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

Never mind that the issue with robberies is of an OOC making - let's address each of these in turn.

1. Why not simply change neighborhood? We have an artificially inflated housing market due to the small number of properties available. Add that to the fact that there's a cap on how much the property can sell for, and you've got a seller's market what borders on no market at all. It's a "rock and a hard place" scenario for the property team. Any further than that, and you're talking about encouraging players to effectively quit the game or play a character who'd thrive in such a city rife with violent crime.
2. Why not report it to the police? Because, as in real life, they're probably not going to catch the person who did it. For reference, muggings have about a 10% clearance rate - that is, they catch up with the perpetrator one in ten times. I'm willing to bet the percentage on the server is even lower - not through any fault of the police, but by the sheer structural advantage robbers have. Not inspiring.
3. What about a neighborhood watch? Most players aren't even aware of who their neighbors are - but not for lack of trying. The number of opportunities you have to interact with your neighbor IRL is far greater than in game. Even if this came into being, however, what good would that do without armed watchmen? Is your solution really for people to form armed neighborhood watch militias?

There's frankly no other response that will register with people who're poorly motivated by an OOC asset grab. When the scales of risk versus reward tip against them and they begin losing guns left and right with nothing to show for it, the frequency of robberies will drop - and at present, that's one of the only IC reactions I can see making an impact on such an OOC issue.

 

I understand you've only been playing for two months or so - that amount of time may not be giving you a proper understanding of the sheer breadth of the issue, which is why I definitely cannot accept the position you take of simply ignoring the issue. That's what most of us have been doing for years. Trust me when I say that if there were an IC solution to the OOC problem, it would have been found.

A good solution to this issue is to learn from past events by refusing to travel outside with tons of wealth and expensive items until you're sure that you'll be safe. I.E. Hanging out outside? Don't carry too much cash. Going to a club? Bring what you think is necessary.

Robberies may decline if they realize that these "wealthy people" don't travel outside with a lot of cash in their pocket, decreasing the amount of robberies in the area.

Edited November 27, 2020 by DLimit

[Smilesville]

8 minutes ago, DLimit said:

Robberies may decline if they realize that these "wealthy people" don't travel outside with a lot of cash in their pocket, decreasing the amount of robberies in the area.

That would require robbers to be interested in actually RPing.

 

As many in this thread can attest, refusing to have enough money only earns you rage and a beating - you'd be killed outright if the rules didn't forbid it. Never mind the act of intentionally and maliciously taking a human life outside the scope of something like self defense is absurdly stressful - but again, we haven't had robbers held to vigorous RP standards.

You already have robbers who kidnap others to bring them to secondary locations and strip search them. You really think they're going to give up swinging by an ATM on the way there? Refusing to introduce more risks in the commission of robberies will only contribute to the formation of a new metagame with the same goals.

 

The concept of people who wander around the streets with massive amounts of valuables is a myth, barring OOC functions like furnishing houses and trucking work.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Smilesville

[DLimit]

8 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

That would require robbers to be interested in actually RPing. As many in this thread can attest, refusing to have enough money only earns you rage and a beating - you'd be killed outright if the rules didn't forbid it. Never mind the act of intentionally and maliciously taking a human life outside the scope of something like self defense is absurdly stressful - but again, we haven't had robbers held to vigorous RP standards.

You already have robbers who kidnap others to bring them to secondary locations and strip search them. You really think they're going to give up swinging by an ATM on the way there? Refusing to introduce more risks in the commission of robberies will only contribute to the formation of a new metagame with the same goals.

 

The concept of people who wander around the streets with massive amounts of valuables is a myth, barring OOC functions like furnishing houses and trucking work.

"You already have robbers who kidnap others to bring them to secondary locations and strip search them. You really think they're going to give up swinging by an ATM on the way there? " - It's against the rules to rob people by forcing them to withdraw wealth out of their A.T.M.

There's a difference between truckers and interior designers traveling to "Point A to Point B" with $100,000USD and a person standing outside of their house with $10,000 in their pocket. If robbers are aware that wealthy people in wealthy areas will have expensive phones and $5000 in their pocket? Then, they'll rob them. Now, if they keep robbing the same place and only discover $200USD? Would they return? Highly unlikely.

 

People DO wander the streets with valuables... jewelry, expensive phones, and $5000... which is a good amount of wealth to earn through a robbery. It's not a myth, at all. In fact, there was a topic about carrying wealth, in the past, in-which a good chunk claimed that they carry around $20,000-$50,000 in their pockets as they'll only lose $5000 during a robbery.

EDIT: if they jump you for failing to have money? Report them for poor escalation. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by DLimit

[Smilesville]

19 minutes ago, DLimit said:

"You already have robbers who kidnap others to bring them to secondary locations and strip search them. You really think they're going to give up swinging by an ATM on the way there? " - It's against the rules to rob people by forcing them to withdraw wealth out of their A.T.M.

There's a difference between truckers and interior designers traveling to "Point A to Point B" with $100,000USD and a person standing outside of their house with $10,000 in their pocket. If robbers are aware that wealthy people in wealthy areas will have expensive phones and $5000 in their pocket? Then, they'll rob them. Now, if they keep robbing the same place and only discover $200USD? Would they return? Highly unlikely.

 

People DO wander the streets with valuables... jewelry, expensive phones, and $5000... which is a good amount of wealth to earn through a robbery. It's not a myth, at all. In fact, there was a topic about carrying wealth, in the past, in-which a good chunk claimed that they carry around $20,000-$50,000 in their pockets as they'll only lose $5000 during a robbery.

EDIT: if they jump you for failing to have money? Report them for poor escalation. 

I'd invite you to point to the section in the rules specifying it's not permitted to force someone to withdraw cash from an ATM. You can't. You can, however, find that ATM's are specified as non-safe zones in Rule 12.

 

Robbers have no rhyme or reason for the way they target people. I've been targeted in wealthy districts of the city walking out of clubs. I've been targeted playing as a homeless man under a bridge. Again - you're presuming they're interested in roleplay rather than a quick script cash grab, where my point is that it doesn't matter who you are or what you're doing. The only real recourse a character has is to shoot a robber on sight or never set foot outside their property.

The fact of the matter is that who has how much wealth doesn't factor into the argument that robberies are far too frequent because they are far too lucrative for the low level of risk they entail for the robber.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Smilesville

[DLimit]

3 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

I'd invite you to point to the section in the rules specifying it's not permitted to force someone to withdraw cash from an ATM. You can't. You can, however, find that ATM's are specified as non-safe zones in Rule 12.

 

Robbers have no rhyme or reason for the way they target people. I've been targeted in wealthy districts of the city walking out of clubs. I've been targeted playing as a homeless man under a bridge. Again - you're presuming they're interested in roleplay rather than a quick script cash grab, where my point is that it doesn't matter who you are or what you're doing. The only real recourse a character has is to shoot a robber on sight or never set foot outside their property.

The fact of the matter is that who has how much wealth doesn't factor into the argument that robberies are far too frequent because they are far too lucrative for the low level of risk they entail for the robber.

"I'd invite you to point to the section in the rules specifying it's not permitted to force someone to withdraw cash from an ATM. You can't. You can, however, find that ATM's are specified as non-safe zones in Rule 12."

They must've changed that rule. Thank you very much for the update.

You raise good points.

[eTaylor]

As a person who enjoys robberies I can honestly testify that the stuff you find is ridiculous, paired with a police force incapable of stopping you it’s pretty much a free for all. That’s the thing, I do have a legitimate reason to go out and prowl but you don’t need one. It’s incredibly susceptible to abuse.

[StewartNero]

I mean having come from various SAMP servers going waaay back to like 2014/2015, dabbled on another RAGE MP server, and now sticking to this one; there are a few issues with your solution (and I am not sure one is needed).

 

Yes there exists a grey area in robbing roleplay with the current rules, but realistically, unless you are alert all the time (which is unrealistic for most characters without some kind of mental illness/backstory to warrant it) you most likely would get robbed. Even if you do RP a super vigilant character, even that has its limits. 

 

I think this is an issue, for sure, but at the same time forcing /do implementation is a slippery slope that will decrease RP quality and realism.

 

Forcing a /do or certain RP command use in all robbery situations will simply lead to people always trying to RP their way out of it. This happened on an old SAMP server and everyone turned into martial arts experts or soft-PG'ed their way out of it.

 

I see your point, but the server seems to be based on realism and has that function at its core. In real life, even if you are armed, if someone shoves a knife to your neck very aggressively, you are not going to try play the hero. Any attempt to go for a weapon in such a situation is a bad idea. 

 

So, what would my solution be? Well, there are a few ideas that immediately pop into my mind.

 

IC Idea 1

Position your character in such a way that 'surprise' attacks or RP isn't completely swung in the assailant's favour. For example, if you are typing, someone gets real close, delete your text and step out with an arm's width (to allow your character plenty of RP options to avoid the attack). However, if someone comes up behind you to initiate RP robbery it is very hard to RP in a way that isn't PG to escape it.

 

This option would be to counter those people that try abuse the time you take typing to force an RP situation (like Robbing). 

 

I would only recommend this option if you are doing something ICly that doesn't distract your character from the assailant, as one could argue if you are typing an RP line, that your character would be distracted ICly.

 

I will elaborate:

 

You are on your phone ICly, and you are typing /do's or /me's to RP it. If someone initiates a robbery RP suddenly, then ICly I would argue that you would be distracted. In this case, using the above method IC Idea 1 would be soft-PG.

 

However, if you are RPing looking across a street and in the middle of typing this RP when someone initiates a robbery, I would argue that deleting the 'looking across a street' RP (or hitting enter and later voiding it) to appropriately respond to the robbery RP would be okay. I would argue that ICly you would obviously see the person approach you and acting strangely (as RPing otherwise would be soft-PG imo too). In this situation, you would be able to respond in a way to defend yourself ICly without anyone abusing you taking time to type to force RP.

Correct me if i am wrong rule wise here in any way.

 

IC Idea 2

Comply with the robbery and ICly remember their face/give them your phone or other electronic device. That way, when you contact the Police (like you would in real life), they can investigate it. If you have your phone RPly stolen and the report is filed fairly quickly, then tracing the phone RPly would be okay, and lead to an arrest. In the real world, a lot of robberies go unsolved and that is reality. This is the only other real IC method I can think of right now off the cuff.

 

OOC Idea 1

Take regular screenshots, and if you think they PGed or forced RP, submit a forum report.

 

OOC Idea 2

Similar to the above, but record your gameplay. Software like nVidia shadowplay has a feature in which you can capture the last five minutes of footage without giving up too much of your PC's punch. Otherwise, you can use software like OBS (which is free) to record gameplay if you have a HDD you can record onto and delete later. (or begin recording gameplay if you suspect anything).

 

Overall I think the system is fine the way it is and genuinely works a bit better than most other RP servers I have played on. It means you need to take care ICly and think more about situations or particular areas of the city (just like you would in real life).

 

EDIT; i forgot to mention that while there is an element of realism for the server and that is at its core, it is a game. Games do need to be fun and while robberies may be stupidly more common than IRL, money is also stupidly easier to acquire. It is a fine balancing act and while this system isn't perfect, it does a lot better than other systems I have played in.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by StewartNero

[Whipflipper]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:37 PM, stijn said:

Have you ever been in touch with drug crime at first hand? Maybe I shouldn’t of have mentioned Marijuana as the sole drug. Drug dealers do make enough profit to live off’ and it is not really up to realism In Game where making a single drug deal is hard to come by. 

Bruh don't get people started on Drug Rp and Realism. Drugs aren't worth a fuck because everybody wants to be El Chapo and everytime somebody does attempt to buy drugs they are buying Ounces and more with the hope of reselling it all at a WAY higher price. Your better off selling Brass Knuckles and switchblades than actual drugs and I'm sure alot of people don't even use the shit they just grab it stock pile it and attempt to sell it.

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, Whipflipper said:

Bruh don't get people started on Drug Rp and Realism. Drugs aren't worth a fuck because everybody wants to be El Chapo and everytime somebody does attempt to buy drugs they are buying Ounces and more with the hope of reselling it all at a WAY higher price. Your better off selling Brass Knuckles and switchblades than actual drugs and I'm sure alot of people don't even use the shit they just grab it stock pile it and attempt to sell it.

I do use drugs and roleplay a drug dependency in depth but you’re certainly right that most don’t. The people I get my drugs from are just as niche within that distribution as myself. The problem is that it’s non-standard. As you said most people don’t dabble with the user-end dealing, and it’s an outright shame considering we have the perfect environment for it. The system is just set up in a way where it’s entirely your own choice to do so, and as such there just aren’t a lot of people that do it “right”. There’s absolutely nothing motivating me to roleplay drugs the way I do besides my own free will, and the integrity to allow others to influence my development.