Drug Market Revamp

[arkan]

5 minutes ago, Ted said:

@UTOPIA Not anywhere do I mention anything remotely socialist, merely basic capitalist economic principles. Are illegal role players really to be relegated to complaining about the lack of completion of the drug overhaul when talking about the drug economy? This is something we have been waiting on since March 24th, 2019. Well over a year at this point. I agree with your advocation for log keeping in regards to drug usage and transfer, you seem to think it necessary before anything else is done. In which case, we will be waiting two more years, given a drug overhaul can't be done in 1 1/2. You seemed to miss this part, and so I shall state it again, people are complaining about the culture and hierarchy around the drug economy. A drug overhaul will not change this. The reality is that the end consumer of a great deal of drugs on this server are people who are scammed, as opposed to drug addicts. 

dude the hierarchy around the drug economy is the same thing! do the people at the top not take advantage of those at the bottom irl?
 

Why does everyone wanna be a drug dealer when they start buying? 

Edited November 16, 2020 by arkan

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Ted said:

@Omerta Wow what a great solution. Instead of doing anything for the large amounts of people who wish to the usage of a variety of drugs, just tell them to stop trying to sell those things! We shouldn't make any attempts to try and improve user experience, realism, rp standards, fuck all of that noise. It is how it is and it'll just stay that way, so stop complaining!

Sorry your character took a poor career path, not everyone can be successful. Better luck next time! 

[Ted]

24 minutes ago, arkan said:

dude the hierarchy around the drug economy is the same thing! do the people at the top not take advantage of those at the bottom irl?
 

Why does everyone wanna be a drug dealer when they start buying? 

The later question is an issue of the drug culture on the server, and I agree, it is why my character uses hard drugs. 

 

However, the hierarchy IRL, as you claim, does not have the same consequences as it does on the server. Again, the sale of drugs in the real world ends with drug addicts who use them, while the consumers on the server are, again, largely people who are scammed and trying to flip the goods. That is not saying that those later people did nothing wrong, but it is not healthy for the server to continue to support that system because that system is based inherently upon OOC means of getting money. People's starter paychecks, and so on. A drug economy on the server would be much healthier, and more enjoyable if there were a realistic number of end consumers, and a more diverse and realistic consumption of drugs as well. 

 

Perhaps, as being part of a faction with a large number of legal businesses, you could understand it in this way. When someone opens a bar on the server, they receive a government stimulus of $1000 dollars per customer that enters. Your faction makes intense, and routine benefit from this system, as most OCG's, LCN's, and MC's do, and I'm not attacking this system at all. However, it is a patently OOC way of garnering money. After all, why not makes the bars just charge more for beer? And so on and so forth? The answer is because more RP is encouraged through this OOC stimulus than is taken away. Why can we not then approach the drug economy with the same maxim; if more RP is encouraged through an OOC stimulus than is taken away, then what is the argument against that system in theory? Obviously this doesn't mean that you have to support any of the past or current suggested forms of OOC stimulation, but if you oppose the idea of OOC stimulation entirely, then perhaps your faction should apply that maxim in a more widespread sense. 

 

Does that not then beg the question, if it is possible to obtain a more realistic and diverse drug economy through the use of OOC stimulation, why would you oppose it? Obviously you may have your reasons for opposing this specific suggestion, but you and your faction seem to widely agree that OOC interference in the drug economy is a bad thing, wholesale. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Ted
Grammatical

[arkan]

7 minutes ago, Ted said:

The later question is an issue of the drug culture on the server, and I agree, it why my character uses hard drugs. 

 

However, the hierarchy IRL, as you claim, does not have the same consequences as it does on the server. Again, the sale of drugs in the real world ends with drug addicts who use them, while the consumers on the server are, again, largely people who are scammed and trying to flip the goods. That is not saying that those later people did nothing wrong, but it is not healthy for the server to continue to support that system because that system is based inherently upon OOC means of getting money. People's starter paychecks, and so on. A drug economy on the server would be much healthier, and more enjoyable if there were a realistic number of end consumers, and a more diverse and realistic consumption of drugs as well. 

 

Perhaps, as being part of a faction with a large number of legal businesses, you could understand it in this way. When someone opens a bar on the server, they receive a government stimulus of $1000 dollars per customer that enters. Your faction makes intense, and routine benefit from this system, as most OCG's, LCN's, and MC's do, and I'm not attacking this system at all. However, it is a patently OOC way of garnering money. After all, why not makes the bars just charge more for beer? And so on and so forth? The answer is because more RP is encouraged through this OOC stimulus than is taken away. Why can we not then approach the drug economy with the same maxim; if more RP is encouraged through an OOC stimulus than is taken away, then what is the argument against that system in theory? Obviously this doesn't mean that you have to support any of the past or current suggested forms of OOC stimulation, but if you oppose the idea of OOC stimulation entirely, then perhaps your faction should apply that maxim in a more widespread sense. 

 

Does that not then beg the question, if it is possible to obtain a more realistic and diverse drug economy through the use of OOC stimulation, why would you oppose it? Obviously you may have your reasons for opposing this specific suggestion, but you and your faction seem to widely agree that OOC interference in the drug economy is a bad thing, wholesale. 

why do I need to lower my prices because everyone and their mom wants to be the next pablo escobar all of a sudden
 

i don’t think it’s fair forcing people to lower their drug prices because nobody wants to rp an addict because in the end the same thing will happen where everyone wants to just become a drug dealer again

 

the best thing that can happen to the servers drug market is the drug update we have all been told about I’m sure we will only see improvement in not only peoples ROLEPLAY but in prices as well. 

[Ted]

1 minute ago, arkan said:

why do I need to lower my prices because everyone and their mom wants to be the next pablo escobar all of a sudden
 

i don’t think it’s fair forcing people to lower their drug prices because nobody wants to rp an addict because in the end the same thing will happen where everyone wants to just become a drug dealer again

 

the best thing that can happen to the servers drug market is the drug update we have all been told about I’m sure we will only see improvement in not only peoples ROLEPLAY but in prices as well. 

OOC stimulation could take place in a number of ways. As I stated in my first post, the lowering of drug prices would have to go with a lower in supplier prices as well. I do not expect any existing faction to take a hit to their profit margin just for the sake of lower drug prices. Lower drug prices don't fix the inherent issues surrounding the roleplay and market, it is merely an opposite solution to UTOPIA's halting of drug sales entirely.

 

I do not disagree. If people do not want to lower the price of their drugs, in character, that is their own volition. 

 

I'm sure there will be quality improvements after the drug revamp, especially surrounding crack and marijuana. However, as I state again, that overhaul does not fix in inherent issues regarding the drug market on the server. I understand it is easy for you do overlook this, as someone who is routinely able to sell without much issues, but you must keep in mind that your characters tend to be much further up the chain than the bottom. 

[Seaward]

I'd say we need to test out other solutions before thinking about NPC buyers. That would create a whole list of problems on it's own. If the primary method of selling is to invisible NPCs, it just makes things awkward with police or rival faction's investigations. You won't see a dealer walk up to someone and exchange drugs for cash, they'll just be standing there or be walking to some random location to RP with a ghost. There's no face-to-face interaction that a cop could document, they'd just have to be close enough to see those RP lines of interacting with a being that isn't there.

This idea would require scripting just like the drug overhaul does and I believe we should wait to see how it effects the economy before considering an NPC option. I'm assuming the drug overhaul will come with some sort of wipe or refresh of the drugs on the server since many markets are just completely flooded, dirt cheap and only getting lower. Props to the people out there who RP addiction purely for the character portrayal but, like it or not, there needs to be script motivation for more people to want to use these drugs along with encouragement and guidance in RPing the effects to have a drug economy that actually works. That plus a wipe/refresh of the drugs currently in the server will hopefully improve this immensely. Unfortunately the drug overhaul seems to be a soon™ situation at the moment but I can only hope it's actually in the works and on the way.

[.Pluto.]

 

[Nullish]

NPC buyers lol.

[bricksbricksbricks]

I dunno ... also, some (or a lot?) of user are also kinda cheap, lazy, don't care or even think about about supporting other peoples rp by doing enough item rp when it comes to drugs and drinks. (while item rp can be cumbersome and annoying tho)

Meaning they don't use the script item, if you smoke weed for example and you pass a joint, have a few grams of marijuana so you can give 1 gram to who ever takes a hit.

 

When it comes to coke you'll have to look at 10-20 script grams like 1g of irl coke... 10-20 would be a lil baggie that would last you all night. So hopefully a revamp will allow decimal grams of substances.. (because lol cops and IC laws @ amounts) Personally I'm not a fan of pretending something is anything other than what it is in game (like saying something is $10 but asking for $100 etc) But as long as you don't bump into any cop players this works good.

 

So by doing your drug rp properly you are supporting a lot of criminal RPers. Same thing with drinks, using the items support other peoples business rp/economy.

 

As an example.. a "night out" IC can roughly look like:

bag of coke ... $2000-$5000 (depending on how far up the centipede your dealer is lmao) 
club entry ... $0-$2500 (say you go to three different venues avg entry $800)
Drinks .. $0-$2000 (Buy your friends drinks and they will buy you you cheap fuck)
Smokes $0-$200

Cab - $200-$1000 (LOL just kidding everyone drives .. gas $50 cheap as hell)

Chill at afterparty smoke weed - FREE everyone got it lal

$0-$10kish.. not that bad for IC currency u cheapos, and most of the cost u can split with friends.

And if you do this over 3 hours (which is pretty fast for 3 venues I guess) you get $2400 in paychecks anyway. Unless u have a lot of assets in which case money is not a problem for you anyway.

 

(ps or do XTC lmao, 1 pill $180, club entry $600, water bottles $300.. sunglasses $100)

(or wait... do heroin, sit down on the floor - free, 1 hit of smack $300)

 

 

[.Pluto.]

14 hours ago, Seaward said:

I'd say we need to test out other solutions before thinking about NPC buyers. That would create a whole list of problems on it's own. If the primary method of selling is to invisible NPCs, it just makes things awkward with police or rival faction's investigations. You won't see a dealer walk up to someone and exchange drugs for cash, they'll just be standing there or be walking to some random location to RP with a ghost. There's no face-to-face interaction that a cop could document, they'd just have to be close enough to see those RP lines of interacting with a being that isn't there.

This idea would require scripting just like the drug overhaul does and I believe we should wait to see how it effects the economy before considering an NPC option. I'm assuming the drug overhaul will come with some sort of wipe or refresh of the drugs on the server since many markets are just completely flooded, dirt cheap and only getting lower. Props to the people out there who RP addiction purely for the character portrayal but, like it or not, there needs to be script motivation for more people to want to use these drugs along with encouragement and guidance in RPing the effects to have a drug economy that actually works. That plus a wipe/refresh of the drugs currently in the server will hopefully improve this immensely. Unfortunately the drug overhaul seems to be a soon™ situation at the moment but I can only hope it's actually in the works and on the way.

 

This was the thing I suggested on another topic:

 

17 hours ago, .Pluto. said:

I think the solution is implementing the DRUG QUALITY system. It's simple, drug quality can go from 1-100 (basically like strength, or purity). Official Faction leaders, or anyone who has the access of making/getting drugs, will start at getting lower quality drugs, at the beginning, and the quality should raise every time he gets the same kind of the drug. That way, for example a gang can choose they'll sell weed and extazy, and focus on selling only that, because getting more of those drugs will raise its quality (working only for the official factions, or for the people in the supplier system). To be honest, no one would want to buy a low quality drug, and that will leave some space for the drug market to be better.

 

Also, the Faction Management should set the minimum/maximum prices for any kind of drugs there are on the server (for example, minimum price for coke - $200, maximum price - $500 per gram). NPCs for the drug market are not a good solution, because then the NPC system would be abused and no one would want to sell drugs to an actual player (at least I would do it that way, just selling to a NPC, wouldn't bother selling to the players). 

 

The thing that should help the drug market is also the drug decay system. For example, if someone is stockpiling their drugs, or just not selling the drugs he owns, the decay system should solve that. Drug decay system can only work if the drug quality system gets implemented. For example: someone has 100 grams of 100% quality cocaine hidden somewhere, in his car/house or whatever. If he doesn't use those drugs, or if he doesn't sell them, the decay system should start lowering the drug's quality after 3-4 days (up to FM/admins to decide that). The drug should decay 2-3% per 12 hours. This would prevent stockpiling, and it could add lots of realism to the drug Roleplay. If needed, I can make a detailed suggestion about this in the new topic.

 

I think having a NPC buyer system won't do any good, and it doesn't feel alright.

Edited November 17, 2020 by .Pluto.