The advantage of LSPD

[MixedKidYT]

4 minutes ago, Koko said:

I think you both will find yourselves to be in a similar position if you sat down and talked 🙂 a demotion for PD is several months of work lost, and potentially disrupting their future promotion as their record is tarnished forever. Also at least last time I played in the server (I have only recently returned) it was a pretty established practice for high level officers (particularly Detectives come to mind, who were dropping like flies for a minute) to actually CK if they were killed during investigations and police work.

From a roleplay standpoint sure, they will face punishment IC for their actions, but jailtime is almost an ooc thing considering you have to wait sometimes weeks to get back IG while police will always remain free men and can still RP as they please, and with the boring jail system it is even worse, and don't get me started on 48 hour hold investigations. Now for the CK thing it goes both ways, I have seen multiple instances when someone was killed by police and had to CK so I really can't say we are on the same playing field.

Edited November 1, 2020 by MixedKidYT

[yerro]

3 minutes ago, MixedKidYT said:

From a roleplay standpoint sure, they will face punishment IC for their actions, but jailtime is almost an ooc thing considering you have to wait sometimes weeks to get back IG and don't get me started on 48 hour hold investigations, now for the CK thing it goes both ways, I have seen multiple instances when someone was killed by police and had to CK so I really can't say we are on the same playing field.

Again, you misunderstand. If you're talking about jail time, that's the time given to investigate and while I'm not sure if there are bail options, you could research into that possibility. From what I've seen, there /are/ people roleplaying lawyers, so you have a chance to say the least.

 

As for prison time, it's hard to brand that as an OOC experience — there are plenty of people committed to creating a realistic prison environment and to say that would be at the very least discarding their efforts.

 

And lastly, people don't really get CKed in police situations unless they do something incredibly unrealistic and wrong, like opening fire on an entire SWAT team that's got their guns on you. This isn't, however, PD-related. From what I know, people can get CKed if they are out of line with their portrayal in conflict situations, and these cases are handled by the admin team, not PD.

Edited November 1, 2020 by yerro

[Tseard]

It's very easy for people (both officers but also civilian roleplayers) to claim they have had years of experiences and training but in reality haven't had training or did have training but nothing as extensive as IRL trainings. 

 

Some things mentioned here are just subpar roleplay and should be reported to get it dealt with. 

 

I would like to point out that law enforcement roleplayers are being investigated properly and dealt with when reported, like a report where someone was able to communicate over their radio while simultaneously shooting and getting shot at. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Tseard

[MixedKidYT]

1 minute ago, yerro said:

Again, you misunderstand. If you're talking about jail time, that's the time given to investigate and while I'm not sure if there are bail options, you could research into that possibility. From what I've seen, there /are/ people roleplaying lawyers, so you have a chance to say the least.

 

As for prison time, it's hard to brand that as an OOC experience — there are plenty of people committed to creating a realistic prison environment and to say that would be at the very least discarding their efforts.

 

And lastly, people don't really get CKed in police situations unless they do something incredibly unrealistic and wrong, like opening fire on an entire SWAT team that's got their guns on you.

Realistically most people rping from the Davis areas cannot afford lawyers so that is not an option.

 

For prison time, I can say for certain there is not any "realistic prison environments" all there is are race wars and taking a couple days to make a knife.

 

Now for your last point I can somewhat agree with, but you do kind of have to realize that PD signed up for possible CK situations, most times when someone is killed it is usually self defense or revenge, so sometimes the only option is to shoot your way out and then you are forced to CK.

[Engelbert]

On one side people yell "moar realism" on the other "it's a game." So which is it? I seen gangsters doing the navy seals approach, move pop pop headshot, move pop pop headshot and again. Now that's not really realistic right? I'd believe it if cops were doing that as they are actually trained to do it. Yes yes nowadays anyone can copy such training from TV, but thing is...you have to train. Getting all those movements and focus into your muscle memory takes long time. Also I believe that criminals are usually ck'd if they choose "me going out with a bang" option over complying. Really? That's movies, in real life everyone is afraid of dying. Everyone. They will take the time, they will not talk, cause you know it is pretty hard to make a seasoned gangbanger talk, but they will not choose dying over doing time. Why? Cause if they belong to a gang, their life does not end in prison, but continues. Now last bit?

People complain about prison and sentences cause their main focus isn't their own story. They wanna be out there doing licks and hanging out. I know, I know, that my opinion is not really popular cause I tend to go to extremes, like not logging in for an entire month once my character had an accident and had to spend time in hospital. I am not telling people to do that.

 

Next thing however I wanna point out is, that same goes for LSPD. They are not without flaws, yes there are limitations. Let us begin with, why they sometimes drive alone, that's never good. They always should come in pairs. Especially when patrolling areas being know for higher crime rates. Always call backup, even if it's routine check. Cause you never know who is around the corner and who has a gun. And WAIT for that backup before doing anything. Yes your suspect or suspects might get away, but is it worth risking your life over immediate dispense of justice? Answer is NO. And every instructor in Police academy will tell you that.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Engelbert

[yerro]

2 minutes ago, Tseard said:

It's very easy for people (both officers but also civilian roleplayers) to claim they have had years of experiences and training but in reality haven't had training or did have training but nothing as extensive as IRL trainings.

Not to derail the discussion, but how would you define "sufficient IC training"? How many /me lines does one have to do for "/me practices at the shooting range" before they can reasonably say they are a good shot?

 

The entire PD academy that applicants go through to become POIs is not roleplayed in the game, but instead written into your character story, essentially.

 

My point is that people should create realistic characters (i.e. not being perfect soldiers with top-notch driving, shooting and investigative skills, on top of their Olympic-level physical condition), but it's up to you how you go about making them good at something.

 

5 minutes ago, MixedKidYT said:

Realistically most people rping from the Davis areas cannot afford lawyers so that is not an option.

 

For prison time, I can say for certain there is not any "realistic prison environments" all there is are race wars and taking a couple days to make a knife.

 

Now for your last point I can somewhat agree with, but you do kind of have to realize that PD signed up for possible CK situations, most times when someone is killed it is usually self defense or revenge, so sometimes the only option is to shoot your way out and then you are forced to CK.

Well.

 

1. You get your lawyer for free. My point here is that if you find yourself in jail pending investigation, you can request a public defender to be assigned for you free of charge.

 

2. Well, that's just you discarding their efforts, then. I've had several friends go to prison and they were in awe of the level of roleplay and commitment people have that roleplay there permanently.

 

3. Again, that isn't about PD vs Criminals — PD doesn't CK people. Admins CK people if they exhibit poor roleplay, such as not roleplaying fear accordingly.

 

Lemme recap that I don't disagree with what you're saying on transparency. If your example concerning the officer getting out of their car and pulling their gun while aimed at by several people (or even one person) did happen and is true, and you had two admins rule that as sufficient RP before having it overruled by a third admin, then that's the issue you should be addressing, imo.

[MixedKidYT]

3 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

I seen gangsters doing the navy seals approach, move pop pop headshot, move pop pop headshot and again. Now that's not really realistic right?

Arguable, that could be chalked up to multiple things some people who in hood areas go to shooting ranges, and might even gain experience from past situations, or maybe you could chalk the head shots up to luck, who knows. but there is a difference in between some headshots and a whole firing squad able to curve bullets around a "human shield

 

6 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

Also I believe that criminals are usually ck'd if they choose "me going out with a bang" option over complying. Really? That's movies, in real life everyone is afraid of dying. Everyone. They will take the time, they will not talk, cause you know it is pretty hard to make a seasoned gangbanger talk, but they will not choose doing over doing time. Why? Cause if they belong to a gang, their life does not end in prison, but continues.

I have some points to make about this for one, not everyone is afraid of dying and some people fear prison more then they do death, now the part about the whole gang life in prison thing is flawed, now sure from an RP standpoint your life in prison would continue, but if we are speaking OOC how many people are gonna spend their whole jail sentence RPing? Although some people do a lot of people just play on different characters or even don't play until their sentence is over.

 

 

 

[MixedKidYT]

2 minutes ago, yerro said:

2. Well, that's just you discarding their efforts, then. I've had several friends go to prison and they were in awe of the level of roleplay and commitment people have that roleplay there permanently.

 

I'm going based off what I have seen, I'm not sure what type of roleplay your friends partake in but for me it is always the same, although I do agree that the transparency aspect should be the thing really getting addressed, continue posting comments, I am heading off to bed but will continue this conversation tomorrow.

[Tseard]

Just now, yerro said:

Not to derail the discussion, but how would you define "sufficient IC training"? How many /me lines does one have to do for "/me practices at the shooting range" before they can reasonably say they are a good shot?

 

The entire PD academy that applicants go through to become POIs is not roleplayed in the game, but instead written into your character story, essentially.

 

My point is that people should create realistic characters (i.e. not being perfect soldiers with top-notch driving, shooting and investigative skills, on top of their Olympic-level physical condition), but it's up to you how you go about making them good at something.

 

Well.

 

1. You get your lawyer for free. My point here is that if you find yourself in jail pending investigation, you can request a public defender to be assigned for you free of charge.

 

2. Well, that's just you discarding their efforts, then. I've had several friends go to prison and they were in awe of the level of roleplay and commitment people have that roleplay there permanently.

 

3. Again, that isn't about PD vs Criminals — PD doesn't CK people. Admins CK people if they exhibit poor roleplay, such as not roleplaying fear accordingly.

 

Lemme recap that I don't disagree with what you're saying on transparency. If your example concerning the officer getting out of their car and pulling their gun while aimed at by several people (or even one person) did happen and is true, and you had two admins rule that as sufficient RP before having it overruled by a third admin, then that's the issue you should be addressing, imo.

 

There is no amount of /me's or do's to determine that, no one would actually roleplay their trainings every week into 4 hours long trainings and it wouldn't be as intense as it would be.

 

What I'm saying is that people can simply create a backstory, mention they hit the range every week and that they had multiple trainings with big agencies on whatever kind of subjects from the start. 

 

No one should be forced to actually spend time and do trainings if they have the OOC knowledge and are able to roleplay it well. But no one should be overreacting and making their character seem very talented or rambo like just because they claim they had trainings. There needs to be a fine balance which is sometimes hard to find. 

[Engelbert]

I understand that, you know the main reason why people usually wanna stay away from prison is, that roleplay in Twin Towers may come as either boring or dangerous, or both. And that's IF you even get there, cause there is a chance you will end up in a cell at PD station for 48 hours, which is hell. Been there. I think not everything should revolve around roleplay. Yes sentences will be longer for people who are not willing to roleplay their stay in prison maybe? And faster for those who invest their time to roleplay it. I think it's fair. Also the CK rule is only for people who decide to defy logic or whatever and run against a police line with clear intention to avoid jail time by PK. 

 

There are flaws on both sides. But then nothing is perfect which is why forums exist right? :)

Edited November 1, 2020 by Engelbert