Remove Pariah

[verrevert]

I do not like the precedent of restricting everything high-end behind an OOC application, plus the more things for people to invest their wealth into the better. If there is 'improper' use (whatever that is) then report them.

[Mahiko]

1 minute ago, verrevert said:

I do not like the precedent of restricting everything high-end behind an OOC application, plus the more things for people to invest their wealth into the better. If there is 'improper' use (whatever that is) then report them.

The people who have accumulated enough wealth through IC means, that would be able to afford such car ICly have no issues getting it.

Whilst people who are mechanics or other types of jobs that gets a shit load of cash while they wouldn't IRL wont have access to it, so I see no issue in how it would limit 'wealthy' people.

[Marksman]

5 minutes ago, verrevert said:

I do not like the precedent of restricting everything high-end behind an OOC application, plus the more things for people to invest their wealth into the better. If there is 'improper' use (whatever that is) then report them.

There's a reason super class vehicles are restricted.

 

This car, while in the sports class, is faster than most supers. Why does this suddenly get a pass?

[TritonXVII]

13 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

I see your point. But at the same time, I disagree, and here's why. The majority of the characters who own the Pariah aren't actually playing characters. They bartend/model/doctor/club promote/mechanic all with the same character. There's a reason the car has gotten this bad reputation as a mall rat missile. Because it's expensive and it's fast and like so many other things on this server, it's a status symbol to some people. However as someone already said, the majority of the people who own them have no business owning them.

And you might say that it isn't fair to do that, but it's an exploitation of script to do what they've done anyways. "Oh my character is a 19 year old model/mechanic/bartender. I have X amount of money because that's what the game has given me. Of course I can afford that car."

So take it back. That's all I'm saying.

The car isn't affordable for someone with 200 grand (the starting money). Assuming most players earn like 4k/hr roleplaying (bartending, guarding, whatever) that's 125 hours that they spent on purchasing this car on top of the original and assuming no other expenses.

 

The problem isn't that people are buying that car while working bartending. It's perfectly plausible for some irl to finance a 200 grand car if they want to and if their credit allows it. The reason they don't is because then they wouldn't have money to live. The way GTA:W is made, we're kinda assuming that people will somehow lose money on expenses etc. In reality, there's no "debuff" of sorts to tackle people not renting/buying a property. In theory half the server is sleeping in their cars. So let's not mix the two issues together.

 

Issue number 1:

People spend money on BS that's not realistic - why? because the server enables them to do so on the assumption that they wont.

 

Issue number 2:

Pariah is a broken car that needs to be removed.

 

We're handling issue number 2 here. To mention issue number 1 is a prime example of whataboutism. Let's agree that the pariah needs to be removed with a full monetary refund, and then we'll talk about ways to actually create a realistic cost of living for players (like for example forcing them to have a house/apartment/condo in order to spawn somewhere, or a "tired" debuff for not owning one, or maybe IC repercussions of some sort... Very debatable topic to begin with).

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

Just now, TritonXVII said:

The car isn't affordable for someone with 200 grand (the starting money). Assuming most players earn like 4k/hr roleplaying (bartending, guarding, whatever) that's 125 hours that they spent on purchasing this car on top of the original and assuming no other expenses.

 

The problem isn't that people are buying that car while working bartending. It's perfectly plausible for some irl to finance a 200 grand car if they want to and if their credit allows it. The reason they don't is because then they wouldn't have money to live. The way GTA:W is made, we're kinda assuming that people will somehow lose money on expenses etc. In reality, there's no "debuff" of sorts to tackle people not renting/buying a property. In theory half the server is sleeping in their cars. So let's not mix the two issues together.

 

Issue number 1:

People spend money on BS that's not realistic - why? because the server enables them to do so on the assumption that they wont.

 

Issue number 2:

Pariah is a broken car that needs to be removed.

 

We're handling issue number 2 here. To mention issue number 1 is a prime example of whataboutism. Let's agree that the pariah needs to be removed with a full monetary refund, and then we'll talk about ways to actually create a realistic cost of living for players (like for example forcing them to have a house/apartment/condo in order to spawn somewhere, or a "tired" debuff for not owning one, or maybe IC repercussions of some sort... Very debatable topic to begin with).

Car needs to be removed because broken. Yes.

Refund cost of car - yes. Anything past that, nobody is entitled to because it was a choice. And you say it's not fair to the players. And my point is, maybe they should've spent that 165 hours developing an actual character instead of shooting for the mall rat Mach 5 and getting their Speed Racer on every time they get in it.

The two issues are separate, but the refund part entwines them together slightly because of "fairness" when they were acting outside of what they should've been doing anyways.

It's not whataboutism with my points. I'm not trying to refute your stance, in fact I said I understood it. But it's just not what I would do if it was up to me. I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong. I don't care. I don't own one, it's a zero loss situation for me.

But if it was up to me, if you didn't have a house - and you have a car that costs more than about 120k with more than about 80 hours on the server, should be banned or at the very least ajailed until you've agreed to buy yourself a property or rent one to live in. But it's not up to me, lucky for some I guess.

 

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, verrevert said:

I do not like the precedent of restricting everything high-end behind an OOC application, plus the more things for people to invest their wealth into the better. If there is 'improper' use (whatever that is) then report them.

What do you not like about this precedent? Its extremely obvious to anyone that the average player can most certainly not be trusted with access to high-end vehicles that aren't restricted behind an OOC application. 

[Towbie]

I personally don't see a major issue with the Pariah, sure - it's an amazingly fast vehicle but it isn't anything that stands out or is driven by a lot of people.
If we're going to try follow the rules of realism and what can and can't be done, I personally see a bigger issue with all of the Elegy Retro's that drive around the city.

And since we're on the topic about super cars, the Paragon is an even bigger issue in my opinion. The Pariah is such a rarity nowadays compared to the Paragon. The Paragon even handles better in my opinion, it just isn't as fast.

The issue itself stems from people who don't know how to portray a character correctly, and I'm pretty sure you can report people for it.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Towbie

[verrevert]

1 hour ago, Mahiko said:

The people who have accumulated enough wealth through IC means, that would be able to afford such car ICly have no issues getting it.

Whilst people who are mechanics or other types of jobs that gets a shit load of cash while they wouldn't IRL wont have access to it, so I see no issue in how it would limit 'wealthy' people.

 

That's an issue with the script then if they over earn and is up to management to make the decision to have it adjusted. As far as I'm concerned they earned their money through the IC means available to them. Whether it's realistic or not is a different question, but that's up to management.

 

17 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

What do you not like about this precedent? Its extremely obvious to anyone that the average player can most certainly not be trusted with access to high-end vehicles that aren't restricted behind an OOC application. 

 

Because I do not like OOC micromanagement - especially on things like cars for stupid reasons like they are "too fast" or "handle too well". I don't think it is anyone's business to judge someone's role play based upon what car they buy, but getting rid of one car just means they'll buy another car and you'll have the same complaints repeated. If the average player cannot be trusted then there is an issue with the player-base which will not be solved by putting a car behind an OOC application, but by either leading by example and education, or admin punishment.

 

[mj2002]

3 minutes ago, verrevert said:

If the average player cannot be trusted then there is an issue with the player-base which will not be solved by putting a car behind an OOC application, but by either leading by example and education, or admin punishment.

 

But it literally solves the issue. I really don't see how it doesn't.