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Rules, Categories, and Interpretation


negs

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Tonight, when it was time to relax, I prepared my dinner and headed to my room. I sat at my desk and through habit's influence went on Discord. I responded to a few messages and sent a few messages too. After that, I made my way down to the GTA World Discord to see what was going on in the world of Grand Theft Auto roleplay. Little to no surprise, there was chatter. Mostly incoherent blurting, but there was chatter. So then I thought, hey, there must be a fair few players in game right now, maybe I should hop on? So I did. I hopped on and let everyone know in the Discord that I had just logged in-game and that if anyone was interested in roleplaying to message me. 

 

The admin quickly noticed and informed me that that is in fact metagame. We went back and fourth for a moment and I abruptly ended the to-be debate by saying that, and I quote, "Most of the rules rely on interpretation". That got the admins attention. So we took it out back (DMs) as not to disturb the elderly couple in the corner. 

 

"What do you mean rules rely on interpretation?! Explain yourself, Bog!" the admin barked. "Your wish is my desire, buckle up and I'll show you what I mean," I replied.

 

The admin told me that asking people OOCly to roleplay is against the rules, because it is metagame, and that not there is no debate around that. That is, this answer is as sufficient as 1+1=2. There is no other possible answer and that it is a clear-cut, textbook example of metagame. I went on to say that there are not millions of players in-game and that if someone were to respond to my message, we would, for example, arrange our characters to go to the beach, so that we could spark an interaction, then go from there. This is because there is not always someone at the beach for Bog to talk to, because there is a limited number of people in the server. The admin shrieked and said that planning any form of roleplay OOC is MG except for if you're going to roleplay being relatives. This is because, the admin says, there is OOC communication required to agree to be relatives and what not. 

 

An easy question. Why does roleplaying relatives require OOC communication? The answer is because ICly, your characters would know each other, so you would need to communicate OOCly, to incorporate an IC matter. A harder question. Why is this rule restricted only to relatives? Why not friends too, or acquaintances, or co-workers, or even strangers? Why can't you OOCly decide to incorporate an IC matter of making your character go to the beach? Why can't we arrange OOC to organise our characters just to go to the beach, and then perhaps garner an IC interaction that way? If I can independently decide right now, to take my character to Richman, why can't I and someone else from the community who wants to roleplay with someone, both decide to take our characters to the beach? The truth is, every single IC action is mediated by an OOC drive. Unfortunately, our characters do not have minds of their own. We control their actions. We have to decide, as human beings (which are OOC), what to make our characters do (which is IC). That is because your character is just that: a fictional character. A fictional character that requires a real person (you) to control it. Every time you roleplay with someone, you are implicitly making an OOC communication, at least to play the game and roleplay! 

 

This requires OOC communication because there is not always people at the beach, when there would be in real life, because Los Santos is meant to be a popular city. There seems to be no logical reason (and I hate to use that phrase) to stop at relatives when it comes to allowing OOC planned interaction, and that it turns out that all interaction is actually meditated OOCly. IC and OOC are not clear-cut categories. And it turns out that MG, which appears to be one of the most simplest of rules, is actually filled with complexities such as assumptions and interpretations. 

 

The admin fundamentally did not agree or understand, and proceeded to inform me that I still metagamed. Very well. I may have, or I may not have, but that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making, was that rules and categories (such as IC and OOC) are often more complicated than they seem, and rely on interpretation. There is no end-all answer to every question about roleplaying. The GTA:W Rule List is not the periodic table. 

 

What do you think? Are rules interpretive, or are there objective answers to questions like, "Was that DM?" and "Was that MG?", if not, is it because of the way GTA:W rules are worded, or because of the way these concepts interact with a system like roleplay, or is it both? Are in character and out of character clear, separate, categories... or do the two interact and mix, in a way that's like watching a good thriller movie? 

 

"This is my stop fella. You stay out of trouble now, alright?" I said sternly before putting on my cowboy hat, grabbing my brown briefcase and exiting the train.

Edited by negs
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5 minutes ago, Gryphboi said:

You're coordinating IC actions through OOC channels. It's metagame. Didn't ask.

You must have misunderstood the post. 

 

1. All actions are meditated by OOC or your character wouldn't do anything, because it does not have a brain of it's own. You (OOC) take control of your character (IC).

 

2. The plan was to organise (yes, through OOC channels) two characters to decide to go to the beach, and then roleplay from there. Just so that there's someone at the beach to roleplay with. Not to organise an interaction, but just to be at the same location so that the roleplay is possible. If nobody is there, the roleplay isn't possible. 

 

What about if you message someone, through OOC channels, to log in-game? Is that also metagame? Where do the draw the line? Can you draw the line in something like this? Or does it rely on admin discretion and judgement? I'm not arguing for one or the other. Just illustrating that these concepts are very interpretive and open for debate. They are not mathematical questions.

Edited by negs
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2 minutes ago, negs said:

You must have misunderstood the post. 

 

1. All actions are meditated by OOC or your character wouldn't do anything, because it does not have a brain of it's own. You (OOC) take control of your character (IC).

 

2. The plan was to organise (yes, through OOC channels) two characters to decide to go to the beach, and then roleplay from there. Just so that there's someone at the beach to roleplay with. Not to organise an interaction, but just to be at the same location so that the roleplay is possible. If nobody is there, the roleplay isn't possible. 


1. Gonna assume you're trolling.

2. In case you're not:

3) Metagaming


 

Providing in-character (IC) information to another player using out-of-character (OOC) means. Providing OOC information to another player using IC means. Using OOC means to find in-character information. Using OOC communication and/or information to influence anything in-character.

You can use IC means to gather people at the beach. Asking people to join you at the beach for RP through Discord can and will influence any RP that might happen. Anything from a simple get-together to a kidnapping/shootout will inevitably result in an admin sit or jail time if it originates from an OOC platform (i.e Discord).

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11 minutes ago, Gryphboi said:


1. Gonna assume you're trolling.

2. In case you're not:

3) Metagaming


 

Providing in-character (IC) information to another player using out-of-character (OOC) means. Providing OOC information to another player using IC means. Using OOC means to find in-character information. Using OOC communication and/or information to influence anything in-character.

You can use IC means to gather people at the beach. Asking people to join you at the beach for RP through Discord can and will influence any RP that might happen. Anything from a simple get-together to a kidnapping/shootout will inevitably result in an admin sit or jail time if it originates from an OOC platform (i.e Discord).

 

I don't agree with that.

 

Personally, I would say that organising a kidnapping/shooting OOC is probably MG, but deciding OOC to do a kidnapping IC is not, because it is impossible to do otherwise and still have a kidnapping. People will draw the line at different points. That's the whole point. The whole thing is open for debate.

 

Scientists can't even agree on what constitutes a 'gene', what makes you think we can agree on what MG is? ?

Edited by negs
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If your character struggles to network with people in person and you still want beach-goer companions, you can always use FaceBrowser or in-character forum subsections to find new friends.

 

I’d recommend revising most aspects of roleplay because you appear to be confused between OOC and IC motives for your actions by thinking too philosophically about it, it’s really not that deep. Good luck.

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