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Remove admin jails in favor of suspensions


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6 minutes ago, TyJ said:

To be honest. GTAW Punishments should not extend outside of the realm of the game.

And why is that? If someone wastes my time with badly planned robbery for example or a revenge kill or something like that. Its my ooc time they waste not my character's time. Yes it does sound harsh, but it's precisely about that, or someone just insults me and gets ajailed, yeah I am fine with it.

Cause its the player breaking the rules not their character and as such the punishment has to be OOC completely. And ajail isn't outside of the game.

It simply forces you to be online and perhaps spend the given time thinking what you did wrong. You could say that ban does the same, yes it does, however it does not force player to be in the game, which can make it somewhat distant. Now I am not saying I wanna keep ajails, but neither I don't wanna keep them. I am only saying why punishment should exist in general.

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I really don't get the sit in jail think and "contemplate" point, if you have a decent PC, you could play another game, chill on YouTube or just watch Netflix. I doubt most people sit back and just watch their ped in one spot for 30/60 minutes unless you're overly invested in the game which is a bad thing to do for any game.

 

I think a lot of people miss this point. It's a game, I really find it weird that we're debating how bad punishment should be on a game.

Edited by Certified Lover Boy Jola
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So I am supposed to just take it easy when someone guns me down or insults me and let them go? Sure I can do that, but they technically disrupt my roleplay session? You hate griefers in mmos and shooters alike. This is not that different. Which is also weird, cause I always thought, that roleplayers are usually fair and dedicated people, cause they actually are, just not here it seems.

Edited by Engelbert
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Just now, Engelbert said:

So I am supposed to just take it easy when someone guns me down or insults me and let them go? Sure I can do that, but they technically disrupt my roleplay session? You hate griefers in mmos and shooters alike. This is not that different.

They employ suspensions in MMOs and shooters, not admin jails. That's what we're talking about. The concept behind an a-jail and how forcing someone to be online and do absolutely nothing productive is bad.

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i agree with this suggestion, when somebody breaks the rules, admins should make them understand that they aren't acting right to be accepted in the game, that's why they'll be kept away from the game as long as this happens, ajail's goal is like stealing irl time of rule-breakers if they wanna keep playing the game and it doesn't make sense

Edited by vally
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The way it works for us admins is that we have a brief guideline on how to handle situations, usually most admins will (depending on admin record and history) hand out either a verbal warning or a recorded warning. We only go to ajail if it's a definite rule break and your admin history is recent (and usually for a similar offence) but me personally? I tend to avoid ajailing and banning people, in fact I think we all do. We know that ajailing and banning people should be a last resort, thus, we avoid it.

 

Furthermore, if you were in our position having to handle a report of lets say major PG, two players have history of doing this and let's add they also have only recently been unbanned for non-rp. You have to take into account previous offences and how this is effecting other peoples RP because at the end of the day us admins only want the best for everyone and sometimes issuing an adminjail is necessary for the situation to progress.

 

Banning someone, as aforementioned, a last resort and it's usually for a serious offence; MG to a severe degree or running around DMing and so on, however, we don't do it intentionally to piss you off, in fact, we try to calmly and collectively make the other player understand the issues and why their actions have these consequences. If we don't inform and talk to the player we're issuing the punishment to then that'd be an easy "get out of jail" free card, likewise, we need solid and valid evidence before issuing a ban.

 

I think punishments reflect behaviour of players and will make them think about how they approach a similar situation in the future and how to not handle it. It's all about giving everyone the best opportunity on this game. If you read through the staff update, Canadian includes statistics that we recieve over 15,000 reports a month (something like that) and of course not every admin and tester will get it right, hence why we have staff reports, we're all only human and make human error. Nevertheless, I think punishments should remain within the game as it only allows each player to improve and in my eyes, I think a punishment being issued can help other players to not do what they did.

 

Sometimes punishments do come off as unfair, I get that, however, like I said above, we are all only human and again it's why staff reports exist. I know sometimes I've made a bad judgement and have talked it out with them on the forums and that resulted in me apologising and unbanning / unadminjailing them. 

 

Finally, I know it comes off as a negative thing to issue a punishment, but as I said, it's only to ensure everyone gets the same treatment and 9 times out of 10 we're usually kind about it (unless you tell us to go fuck ourselves etc) and we will talk it out with you. I know I'm always willing to listen.

 

Hope this helps. If not well, sucks.

 

EDIT: I'm not a perfect admin and I still learn how to handle different situations every time I take a report. We're all learning how to be the "best" admin we can be as a team.

Edited by Selena
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22 minutes ago, Selena said:

The way it works for us admins is that we have a brief guideline on how to handle situations, usually most admins will (depending on admin record and history) hand out either a verbal warning or a recorded warning. We only go to ajail if it's a definite rule break and your admin history is recent (and usually for a similar offence) but me personally? I tend to avoid ajailing and banning people, in fact I think we all do. We know that ajailing and banning people should be a last resort, thus, we avoid it.

 

Furthermore, if you were in our position having to handle a report of lets say major PG, two players have history of doing this and let's add they also have only recently been unbanned for non-rp. You have to take into account previous offences and how this is effecting other peoples RP because at the end of the day us admins only want the best for everyone and sometimes issuing an adminjail is necessary for the situation to progress.

 

Banning someone, as aforementioned, a last resort and it's usually for a serious offence; MG to a severe degree or running around DMing and so on, however, we don't do it intentionally to piss you off, in fact, we try to calmly and collectively make the other player understand the issues and why their actions have these consequences. If we don't inform and talk to the player we're issuing the punishment to then that'd be an easy "get out of jail" free card, likewise, we need solid and valid evidence before issuing a ban.

 

I think punishments reflect behaviour of players and will make them think about how they approach a similar situation in the future and how to not handle it. It's all about giving everyone the best opportunity on this game. If you read through the staff update, Canadian includes statistics that we recieve over 15,000 reports a month (something like that) and of course not every admin and tester will get it right, hence why we have staff reports, we're all only human and make human error. Nevertheless, I think punishments should remain within the game as it only allows each player to improve and in my eyes, I think a punishment being issued can help other players to not do what they did.

 

Sometimes punishments do come off as unfair, I get that, however, like I said above, we are all only human and again it's why staff reports exist. I know sometimes I've made a bad judgement and have talked it out with them on the forums and that resulted in me apologising and unbanning / unadminjailing them. 

 

Finally, I know it comes off as a negative thing to issue a punishment, but as I said, it's only to ensure everyone gets the same treatment and 9 times out of 10 we're usually kind about it (unless you tell us to go fuck ourselves etc) and we will talk it out with you. I know I'm always willing to listen.

 

Hope this helps. If not well, sucks.

 

EDIT: I'm not a perfect admin and I still learn how to handle different situations every time I take a report. We're all learning how to be the "best" admin we can be as a team.

I may have not explained exactly what I'm suggesting so I'll rephrase it. I am not asking for admins to be more lenient or for them not to dish out punishment. I am however, suggesting that the concept of an admin jail is dated, persisting throughout multiple role-play servers for years. Bans sound terrible but what I am suggesting is admin jails are removed and replaced with suspensions aka temporary bans.

 

In theory an admin jail and a temporary suspension have no real difference. One forces you to stay in-game and I ask you, what for? What is the purpose of forcing a community member to sit through an admin jail where they literally do not do anything productive? If the norm in online games are suspensions, why can't role-play servers employ the same methods?

 

Sitting in-game, frozen, unable to do anything is definitely more personal and feels more like real and unnecessary punishment than being unable to play.

 

I am aware admins aren't out here trying to punish people. I was an admin on LS-RP and I was the receiver of abuse at times from disgruntled players who didn't agree with my decisions. That happens and will always happen. It's always negative for a person to receive punishment, it's just how it is. Nobody likes to be reprimanded. Administrating a game like this is hard. Role-play isn't black and white.

 

Regardless of all that, revoking a player's access to the game is a much better solution than forcing them to be online staring at nothing. You're not teaching the player anything by forcing this upon them. The players know or should know the rules. If they break these rules, warn them, suspend them and ban them if necessary.

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Admin jail is useful. It's never an issue to waste a player's O.O.C. time, in this case. If they WANT to RETURN to the game, then they must reflect on the rules while being logged on to the game for an X amount of time. You may call it torture. But, the player isn't forced to log on to the game and reflect on the rules for the duration of their A-Jail. They voluntarily choose to to log on to undergo the A-Jail as they intend to return to the game. Thus, they have to endure their punishment DURING their game time to reflect on their actions, rather than simply playing another game through a ban without having to log into the game.

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I think punishments in general, whether warnings, ajails or bans should be handed out in accordance to the effect that the violator's actions had on other players. Did you break the rules and nobody was negatively affected? Meh, who cares. I think punishing someone for something that didn't affect anyone is similar to putting people in jail in real life because they smoked a joint or sold a little weed, which is pointless anyway.

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