Problem with PD alts

[Daquan Kingston]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

Just don't tell people you're a cop then? I spent a lot of time off-duty and I was never bothered by anyone. Don't try be a hero whenever you see someone fighting. People fight. You don't need to grab your badge and shout "FREEZE!!!! STOP FIGHTING!!!". If you're that bothered, call 911 or don't get involved at all. 

 

Obviously circumstances differ but the gist of what I'm saying is, if you don't need to get involved. Don't. Is it worth risking your life over something so menial off-duty? With your friends and family? Most of the time the answer is going to be no. Think of your character as a person and not a police officer.

Preach. This topic is something to be taken serious because it's disgusting how a lot (not all) PD characters are robocops. 

[Power]

18 hours ago, Rumbunctious said:

Lol. If the concern is that the faction will completely die because all the characters are CKed, perhaps they should care for their lives a little better / take precautions to ensure they don't constantly get CKed and essentially play the same character across multiple names over and over?

This isn't realistic. Some of the player complaints I've seen made by cops. Getting gunned down by a gang of people because there friend is in a traffic stop. Players complain about things like this but don't realize or don't want to realize it's them and their fellow players that create this environment and force faction management to adapt.

[Big_Smokes]

18 hours ago, DirtNasty said:

When a illegal faction member is CK'd do you think they start a alt in the same position as their old character? Absolutely not. Infact, I think there is rules against this type of behavior in factions. People have to get approval to RP with their factions on alts and such. Why is the PD held to a different standard?

I've seen this pop up a few times. I've discussed this exact thing with FM and what you quoted here is a common misconception. There is no such rule on the server for any factions. Factions that do this restrain themselves, not the other way around.

 

I've actually read this whole discussion and I'm sorry to say this but according to what I was recently informed of by management, you're all pointing fingers at each other without realizing you're all wrong. There is no ''you can't come back to x position after CK rule'' in place that blanket covers all factions on the server. There are a select few factions which choose to do this themselves, and that's completely onto them.

 

Why does the LSPD choose not to make people jump through hoops after getting CKed most of the time? Not because it would be a waste of their time, no, but a waste of everyone else's time. Some of you may not know this, but a decent 40% if not more of the time spent ''playing'' the game for law enforcement roleplayers past their probationary ranks is spent writing documents. And we (both us and the LSSD) have made it our sole purpose to take out any non essential documentation. But that still leaves us with **a literal shitload** of work that simply must be done to achieve some semblance of realism within law enforcement roleplay.

 

I think it's a waste of time for my 3+1's, detectives, sergeants, lieutenants, captains, commanders and deputy chiefs to go through the motions ICly and administratively with someone that for example has already reached the rank of Lieutenant in my faction and just happened to get himself CKed/arrested/removed for whatever IC reason if it's not necessary and the roleplay leading up to it was of good quality. These people who play this game as a hobby in their free time and do not get any financial compensation for behaving like they would in a real business environment spending countless hours teaching people who actually need that new experience should not be further penalized for having chosen this path, simply because of an arbitrary rule that defines who and when may start at what position, for no other purpose then ''the need for every character to start fresh from the bottom''.

 

This might sound like mixing to you, but at the end of the day: You are not just roleplaying a character in the faction. Yes, you might be roleplaying a character who is a lieutenant. But that also means you are actually fulfilling the tasks of a lieutenant. Which means you are in command of a group of 20+ people, or multiple groups of people. This means you need to have experience. Real, over time gained experience. You need to be able to communicate with people. Not communicate in the sense of saying ''hello'' and ''goodbye'' every day, but you need to be able to ensure they do their jobs, that their jobs are done in a fashion that qualitatively is at the very least good enough for the LSPD and you need to manage the careers of these people. Deciding if they get promoted, deciding if they get demoted, offering new positions to these people... yeah, that's all part of the career package.

 

Do not for a second underestimate the fact you need to be competent and experienced OOC to even get close to these positions. At minimum with restrictions in place, it will take you 7-9 months in the faction to get to Lieutenant. Only two people have ever reached the rank in the minimum amount of time it took to get there. Most people take at least 9-12 months to achieve a position this high or of similar workload in the LSPD. Losing people that you have spent 12 months training, guiding and evaluating for a particular job or part of the faction hurts. It doesn't just hurt the organizational readiness of the faction, but also ruins OOC motivation and makes it very difficult to maintain team cohesion. All of these things not happening were a big part of the LSPD being able to change so much already in 2020.

 

When you create a character, you can have that character be whomever you want to be. I do not see any good reason why on a case by case basis in good judgement people can't decide that their character is a police captain who just so happened to go up the rank in unnamed district of the LSPD, because it suits the greater needs of both the faction and the community to have that OOC person retained in their position.

 

Now don't get me wrong. IF people want to voluntarily step down, take a lower ranking character, whatever, that's fine by me. And they do have to go through the motions like everybody else. But in situations where it is unnecessary and causes an OOC brain drain of ANY faction, be that the LSPD or for example a much smaller faction in which that person getting removed is playing a pivotal role and absolutely cannot be taken away from their position or it will hurt/destroy said faction, it's unbecoming of any of us to ask that person to start completely from the bottom simply to satisfy our own needs. It's selfish and will hurt the quality of the server in the long run.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Big_Smokes

[Jari13X]

2 hours ago, rootless cosmopolitan said:

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

 

As Keane said show us examples, otherwise your point is invalid and you're just trying to score clout points.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Jola

[Sebz]

As someone who plays a detective in the PD and cannot have an illegal alt (This rule is in place to avoid conscious and subconscious metagaming of classified information), I can say with certainty that I value my character. If I were to CK, I would lose all of the connections my character has made, all of the paperwork my character is involved in, frankly everything I have worked for aside from the rank. And I can back up Smokey's statement regarding the work that goes into getting to that point. You have to be a good pick for the position, start from the bottom, go through interviews, complete loads of theoretical work, all for a position that comes with, you guessed it, more paperwork. Detective (and the other positions mentioned by Smokey) do not come easy for anyone, and these individuals should not be punished and sent back to square one because they were outgunned in a video game. And let me be  clear, I understand that one side of this discussion believes it's unfair that someone can come right back to their position. I get where you're coming from, but when PD members are subject to a shootout at any time (for any reason) and can die in a moments notice, they should have much more room to decide when they wish to CK. I believe the same should be extended (and already is) to illegal roleplayers.

 

TLDR: I roleplay a detective and don't think I should have to start over if I get CKed. I think everyone should freely choose when they CK (within reason).

[rootless cosmopolitan]

55 minutes ago, Jola said:

As Keane said show us examples, otherwise your point is invalid and you're just trying to score clout points.

 

OK YRNJola. How about the classic "Hey I'm just a relative who flew in Los Santos to help out" or the "West Coast bigwig flying in to regulate his underlings" or even straight up auto-making people that have died on good terms?  If you didn't die over some OOC bullshit and you're still good with the faction leadership, you're coming back. If you're not an official member yet, you're coming back as someone in a shortlist who will be as soon as the books open. Period. This is the standard operating procedure in every illegal faction that has ever existed on any role-play platform, be it MTA, SAMP or GTA V.  Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing this practice at all, I understand it is a necessary evil to keep illegal factions going. However, to then turn around and pretend like coming back with new characters to pretty much RP the same shit is somehow a PD/SD problem is horribly disingenuous. You might be able to fool these freshmen illegal RPers into believing that dumb shit but you won't be able to fool me bro. Just cut it.

 

Hit me up when illegal factions stop recruiting over discord. "Hey man, I'm making a faction! Wanna join up?" 

Edited August 20, 2020 by rootless cosmopolitan

[Jari13X]

Just now, rootless cosmopolitan said:

 

OK YRNJola. How about the classic "Hey I'm just a relative who flew in Los Santos to help out" or "West Coast big-wig flying in to regulate his underlings" or even straight up auto-making people that have died on good terms?  If you didn't die over some OOC bullshit and you're still good with the faction leadership, you're coming back. If you're not an official member yet, you're coming back as someone in a shortlist who will be as soon as the books open. Period. This is the standard operating procedure in every illegal faction that has ever existed on any role-play platform, be it MTA, SAMP or GTA V.  Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing this practice at all, I understand it is a necessary evil to keep illegal factions going. However, to then turn around and pretend like coming back with new characters to pretty much RP the same shit is somehow a PD/SD problem is horribly disingenuous. You might be able to fool these freshmen illegal RPers into believing that dumb shit but you won't be able to fool me bro. Just cut it.

 

Hit me up when illegal factions stop recruiting over discord. "Hey man, I'm making a faction! Wanna join up?" 

How was the SABI created?

[rootless cosmopolitan]

Just now, Jola said:

How was the SABI created?

You'll have to ask the leader of that faction. It was probably the seven months of building up the justice system that did the trick. Your reaction to my reply is VERY cute though. Thanks for rolling over and agreeing with my point.

[Jari13X]

1 minute ago, rootless cosmopolitan said:

You'll have to ask the leader of that faction. It was probably the seven months of building up the justice system that did the trick. Your reaction to my reply is VERY cute though. Thanks for rolling over and agreeing with my point.

You're coming off as if you're upset about something. My reply just proves that your point is contradicting to the faction that you roleplay with, of course people build up a member base before creating a faction, all of the LSPD, SABI and LSSD leadership came together OOC to start up their factions so why should it be different for an illegal faction? Also nobody's denying that you can come back to a faction, the problem is coming back with the rank you already had with no development.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Jola

[rootless cosmopolitan]

6 minutes ago, Jola said:

You're coming off as if you're upset about something. My reply just proves that your point is contradicting to the faction that you roleplay with, of course people build up a member base before creating a faction, all of the LSPD, SABI and LSSD leadership came together OOC to start up their factions so why should it be different for an illegal faction? Also nobody's denying that you can come back to a faction, the problem is coming back with the rank you already had with no development.

Ah. The classic "who hurt u sweetie". You sure you're not a teenage girl? ANYWAY... I'm OK with factions coming together OOC, I'm OK with the relative auto-invite meme and I'm OK with bringing back people who have died. I LITERALLY stated that in my initial reply. I'm just not OK with people bullshitting and pretending like LSPD/LSSD are the only ones with this issue. I didn't contradict my point, you just chose to miss it with prejudice. Speck of dust in brother's eye etc etc, whatever that bible verse is.

Edited August 20, 2020 by rootless cosmopolitan