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BUYING ANY BUSINESS - Enforce stricter realism on ads


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Supporting this, giving this a bump. If you're looking for any business, it just sounds like you have no business plan at all, and are just profit oriented. It's way easier to build something that you want to deal with than buying something you'll end up selling in two weeks because it's not what you were expecting, or isn't bringing you profits.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with an ad like, "looking to buy a café or a bar", those are pretty similar, but ads like "looking for any business", or "looking to buy a liquor store, café, strip club, restaurant, bar, car dealership", or "looking to buy a car dealership or a pawn shop", to me screams like it's all about profit and not about providing some unique roleplaying experience.

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I'm against this, although my opinion might be a bit controversial.

 

I don't necessarily think that such ads are an issue. People buy businesses in real life that they don't have experience in, in lots of cases they don't even manage them. It's very common for someone to invest their money into a business, hire someone to do all the work and just gather the profits. For some it's their job, for others it's a passion, while for others it's an investment. And that's fine. That is, after all, the reason why businesses exist - to make money. I don't know why people are complaining about businesses looking to make money, that's literally their purpose. It's like complaining about the fact that people are driving cars.

 

There's nothing wrong with buying a business in order to delegate someone to run it. If anything, it stimulates the market and it opens up more role-play possibilities for people wanting to role-play as managers. When I look for an open business for my character to either role-play at or work in, I really don't care whether that business was acquired for money or because of a (fake) sense of passion - what I care about is doing some nice role-playing and being on my way. If there are business owners who are portraying their characters or their businesses in an unrealistic manner, they shall be dealt with.

 

You could argue that, in most cases, "buying any car" and "buying any house" are also unrealistic - in real life, you have a few options of a vehicle in mind, you don't just go out to buy literally anything, and receive hundreds of thousands of offers from people selling anything from a rusty bike to a family wagon to an old sports car to a hut on wheels. You also don't buy "any property outside of the city", you have something in mind. Even in the city, you're looking at a specific area, a number of rooms, utilities, furnished or unfurnished, the neighborhood and the neighbors, a price and all sorts of other details.

 

We don't have the supply in order for ads like this to be viable. Such a rule would only push people towards buying clubs, cafes or bars (because they're very common and related) and move away from more unique businesses. Someone might buy a bespoke suit business or a fishing company if it's offered to them, hire someone to run it and provide role-play to lots of people, but no one will actually advertise looking for one and people looking to sell will be at a loss.

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42 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

People buy businesses in real life that they don't have experience in, in lots of cases they don't even manage them.

 

In the US, 20% of small businesses fail within the first year. Within 5 years, over 50% of businesses fail. Less than 30% of businesses remain long-term. These are numbers in the real world, when these businesses represent people's life's work, often entire savings, and lots of hard work.

 

Yes, some stupid, delusional people buy businesses in real life that they don't have experience in. What almost always happens is that those businesses fail. If you open up a restaurant and have zero experience running a restaurant, you will burn a ton of money, have little to no customers, and ultimately shut down within the first year or two (assuming you can even run at a loss that long). You will then go on to describe that experience as one of the worst decisions of your life.

 

In GTA:W, however, businesses are a consistent store of value. As long as you do not overpay for your business, it will remain worth approximately what you paid for it. if you buy a restaurant for 400k, only have a few openings and decide you don't like it, it's not a problem to go and sell it for 400k again. Even if you run the business poorly, just /startshifting and /openbusinessing allows you to make money. Why is this a problem? It's because a business does not have to be run well or realistically to profit on GTA:W, and purchasing a business is virtually always a safe investment unless you buy an overpriced business. End result is you're taking up limited stock from other players who'd do something with it, and you're taking virtually no risk as a result.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

It's very common for someone to invest their money into a business, hire someone to do all the work and just gather the profits.

 

I'd disagree that this is very common. Almost every single real life entrepreneur I know has an extensive amount of interest and experience in their chosen fields. What is very common, however, is for people with money to believe they can "invest their money into a business, hire someone to do all the work, and just gather the profits." I've watched multiple people in real life do exactly this, and every single one of them has failed. Hell, one time I was the "experienced manager" that was pulled in a few months down the road because they were hemorrhaging money. Even though I helped them get the business on track, they still lost so much money that they sold it to people who knew what they were doing. 

 

In real life, the market is competitive. Starting a business is hard, requires a lot of effort, and there's no guarantee of success. All the while, your investment is tied up and will not be earning you money until you can turn the business around. Even for people with experience and knowledge, it can often take a couple of years before their businesses turn a profit. 

 

I'm not saying we need to simulate this 1:1 in GTA:W, but I really wanted to dispel this notion you're posing here that it's a common thing for inexperienced people to use their money to get profits from another business. The only way that this is realistically feasible is through investing in someone else's business. What actual smart rich people do is they find people who do have experience who are interested in starting a business. They lend them the money required to start the business, or they join them as partners and finance them in exchange for part ownership in the venture. 

 

THAT is the kind of roleplay this server needs. If your argument is for the health of the RP community, then what we need is for rich characters to find motivated managers ICly and to help them purchase businesses that THEY will run. That is what is useful for an RP server.

 

The problem with people "seeking profits" -- as other people say it -- isn't because seeking a profit is inherently bad, the problem is with people who entirely neglect adequate roleplay in search of profits, and instead who take away opportunities from other people who want to commit to a character or concept. When Johnny Mallrat puts a "buying any business" ad, what he's doing is helping artificially drive up demand for businesses, and in doing so is not only taking supply away from RPers who would be more focused on a concept, but he's diluting the market and adding more "noise." There are lots of characters on this server who own businesses who have no real realistic entrepreneurial RP, their characters just kinda own the businesses because they have an abundance of e-moniez that have stacked up over the months and it's the cool thing to do. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Mahitto said:

You could argue that, in most cases, "buying any car" and "buying any house" are also unrealistic -

 

It sort of is, it sort of isn't. If someone is in a place in their life where they're "buying any car" they probably care less about what the car is and more about how it costs. I know plenty of high school and college students who are "buying any car" -- they don't really care if it's a Toyota, a Honda, a Volvo, or a Ford, they just need something with 4 wheels that runs. As for "buying any house" -- this is pretty damn realistic, honestly. Your average family of 4 isn't going to put an ad out saying "buying any house" but in real life I drive by plenty of signs and advertisements from residential development firms (and car prospectors) with taglines sounding like "Need cash fast? Your car for cash now, easy sale!" or "Buying any home, any condition, fast cash sales!" These are often companies preying on people who are in desperate situations, and who will then turn around and flip car parts or property lots for profit. 

 

Never in my life have I seen or heard of any credible person in the real world mention they're "buying any business." I have heard of people who are willing to invest in any business, but you know what they're not looking to do? Personally go out, put their name down on a lease for a building, personally register for licenses, and personally get involved in hiring for and managing the operations of a business. There are lots of rich people with extra money in the world looking to make a profit, but what they realistically do is give money to the sort of people who would make an ad "purchasing a mid-sized restaurant" or "looking to buy retail space in Rockford Hills" -- sure, maybe they don't care if they're buying a laundromat in Rockford Hills or a bagel shop, as long as it's the size they want and where they want, and they'll develop it into exactly what they want to run (say, for example, a jewelry store). 

 

It's not unrealistic to buy a barber shop and change it into a cafe, people do that sort of stuff in real life, but they didn't do it because they were "buying any business." They were looking for commercially zoned properties in a certain neighborhood, and they found a space which fits their needs. People don't go buying random businesses, and then go "oh, cool, I got a clothing store, let me start finding a clothing store manager to help me run this clothing store."

 

tl;dr:

 

Instead of "buying any business" try


"Investor seeking prepared and experienced entrepreneurs for funding new start-up business ideas." (You have money and want to profit, but don't have an idea or a desire to personally run a business.)

"Purchasing retail space in or around Pillbox Hill." (You don't care what the business is because you're going to demolish the inside and redesign it into another business, you care instead about the location.)

"Looking to buy upscale bar." (You don't care about the location, you care about buying into a type of business you want to succeed in.)

 

Or other some variation. Have some sort of specific thing you're looking for that's more interesting than "any business."

Edited by Ink
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52 minutes ago, Ink said:

...

 

It is actually quite common for people to invest in businesses they have no experience in. I personally know of two such cases, someone having bought a KFC - hired a lot of managers, they had no idea how to run a restaurant or how to cook (obviously, they learned meanwhile) and the business is highly successful, and also know of a second person who started out modifying vans and trucks into ambulances and now owns lots of businesses, from tech to aero-spatial and military logistics - again, he has no experience in the field, doesn't run them, but rather founded and funded them, hired the managers and collects the process. It happens, a lot. Sure, lots of these businesses fail, but that's an IC issue.

 

I don't think it takes anything away from people who actually want to run the business themselves. Everyone is free to advertise, look for, apply for, etc, a business. If you want to start a homemade jewlery boutique, I highly doubt you'll fail to do so because someone put a "buying any business" ad and bought it before you. And even if, that's normal - the market is competitive, if you're not trying or are not the first out there, you'll miss out. It's the same in real life - you might want to buy a business and be beaten there by someone who will run it in the ground.

 

Sure, they can make some money without putting much effort in, but if it's just an OOC way to make money, people will likely not enjoy it and not go back. I'm yet to see any businesses like that, though - except for some bars/clubs/coffee shops each of which are basically a carbon copy of the others. If you do find one, report it to RPQM.

 

But my argument still stands - if a business is being ran unrealistically, then it shall be reported and handled on a case-by-case basis. I've seen people 'buy any business' and shape their character or namechange after acquiring it, then run it magnificently, and I've seen others buy specific businesses and fail miserably. It has nothing to do with how you buy the business or how you word the advert, what matters is how you run and portray it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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