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Server Rules: Questions and Answers


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12 hours ago, joshua said:

 

why is it being enforced without any kind of ruling tho. how is it expected of players to understand exactly what they can and can't do when situations aren't properly outlined

Situations constantly develop and rules are constantly changing. We have admin discretion for a reason, so if an admin finds something that might be poor, that can still act on it. The one incident that brought all this up? Was a small portion of the "punishment" that is being blown up. However, we are still looking into an official ruling on the situation and to implement an official rule.

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2 minutes ago, Pillsbury said:

  

Situations constantly develop and rules are constantly changing. We have admin discretion for a reason, so if an admin finds something that might be poor, that can still act on it. The one incident that brought all this up? Was a small portion of the "punishment" that is being blown up. However, we are still looking into an official ruling on the situation and to implement an official rule.

i kinda understand your point, but admins shouldn’t be using admin discretion this way - why punish someone for it when you, yourself, can obviously tell it’s an obscure grey area which isn’t really mentioned? why come down so hard on someone for it? maybe these are questions better suited to the admin that issued the punishment, as i’m not sure if this is common practice amongst staff.

 

admin discretion should REALLY only be utilised when something is so very blatantly against the rules that anyone with a hint of common sense that wasn’t doing things negligently would know they were doing wrong, to cover admin’s asses about it being not explicitly mentioned. this is NOT one of those times. it sucks that it is used this way

 

as for the latter point, the reason this inconsistently itself is being blown up so much is because that part of the text was presented as a big deal in the publicly posted reason, it made up more than half of the reason character-count wise if i recall.

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It seems as though there's a contradiction in recent administrative decisions. 


On January 3rd it was posted by @Red. that: "You are required to utilize /breakin for any sort of burglary/property breach/break-and-enter where the objective is burglary, robbery, or theft of physical materials for monetary gain."


On February 1st, a month later it was ruled by @Wally that: "It was ruled that players only need to /breakin command if they want to take items in the properties /pinv or the safe."


These are contradictory statements; the first ruling indicates that you'd need to use /breakin to rob the people inside of a property, while the second statement indicates that you only need to use /breakin to rob the property (and safe) itself, and the people inside can be robbed without use of the command. In both rulings, there are claims that an internal staff discussion was had on the subject, and with these rulings only being a month apart I'm confused as to which one staff's current consensus?

My question is: Do you need to use /breakin to rob the people inside of a property or do you only need to use /breakin to the property's inventory (and safe)?

Relevant screenshots and links to the decisions have been added below:
 

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Spoiler


 

Edited by Fancy Toothpaste
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@Fancy Toothpaste as far as I know, it's still what I wrote. This was confirmed at the time with @Pillsbury and @Jonesy as two names I can immediately recall. Unless discussion resulted it it being changed, which is possible.

 

Edit: Yep, looking at the post looks like it may have been changed. Someone should give more guidance soon on what's what. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Red.
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Hey guys, I'll clarify here.

 

The /breakin command is not required if:

  • The homeowner leaves the door unlocked and/or you convince them to let you into the residence.
  • You only intend on assaulting/robbing the occupants of the house and what is on their person.

Any forced breaking of doors, windows, etc to gain entrance into a residence requires a /breakin request as well as stealing any items from the property's inventory.

 

We're going to work on clarifying this through an ammendment to the /breakin command's text and/or a rule update in the future.

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Could we get a definitive statement from the admin team regarding headshots and the brutally wounded state? Something that can be used as a reference. There have been a lot of shootings lately and on almost every scene, there's a different claim about when you need to PK from headshots when you've been downed. Even admins have differed from ruling;

 

  • Some say that if your most recent gunshot wound in /damages is a headshot, you have to PK, otherwise you don't.
  • Some say that as long as someone arrives to provide medical to you, you can RP surviving regardless.
  • Some say it's FD's choice whether or not you're going to survive with headshots.
  • Some say if the headshot is 50 or more damage you have to PK.
  • Some say if you have headshots at all and are brutally wounded, you have to PK.

Surely the only logical one is the last one, but can the staff definitively make a statement/address it in the rules to refer people to it when on scenes? Thanks.

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12 hours ago, Inked said:

Could we get a definitive statement from the admin team regarding headshots and the brutally wounded state? Something that can be used as a reference. There have been a lot of shootings lately and on almost every scene, there's a different claim about when you need to PK from headshots when you've been downed. Even admins have differed from ruling;

 

  • Some say that if your most recent gunshot wound in /damages is a headshot, you have to PK, otherwise you don't.
  • Some say that as long as someone arrives to provide medical to you, you can RP surviving regardless.
  • Some say it's FD's choice whether or not you're going to survive with headshots.
  • Some say if the headshot is 50 or more damage you have to PK.
  • Some say if you have headshots at all and are brutally wounded, you have to PK.

Surely the only logical one is the last one, but can the staff definitively make a statement/address it in the rules to refer people to it when on scenes? Thanks.

Is the only official precedent we have currently. And the only one that is to be enforced by the Administrative Team. We have a lot of current on-going rule discussions going on in Management and this is one of them. However, the precedent has worked decently so far. FD doesn't have a choice to decide if you die or not, nor does anyone else besides Administrators if it comes down to that. No other precedent has been confirmed by Administration or Management, for whoever is saying what is the right way and not.

 

While the ruling seems a bit in-depth, it's pretty simple of when you can live or not, and that if any final verdict is needed that an admin will use discretion at the end of the day.

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7 hours ago, Pillsbury said:

While the ruling seems a bit in-depth, it's pretty simple of when you can live or not, and that if any final verdict is needed that an admin will use discretion at the end of the day.

 

This is an excellent guideline for the time being, and while it seems a little in-depth, it does help to solve most cases. Is there any chance we can have it somewhere more obvious than burried in a player report from last May? Even as a temporary measure, I feel it would help to coordinate scenes "in the heat of the moment" so to speak without having to exchange (ideally) a single ooc pm.

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8 hours ago, Pillsbury said:

While the ruling seems a bit in-depth, it's pretty simple of when you can live or not, and that if any final verdict is needed that an admin will use discretion at the end of the day.

Pretty good overall yeah 🙂 I'm glad this will be formulated more clearly and is being discussed. It gives medical intervention a stronger place, it also places illegal players in an interesting situation ("My buddy took a bullet in the face - he MIGHT survive but I can't just bring him to our street doc, I gotta call 911 - this in turn might send him to jail, what do I do?"). It's also nice because it acknowledges the progress of medicine in the last 20 years - the idea that "head shot = instant death" is very true, but in the 1990s where it was ~5% of survival rate. I mentioned in another thread that in the 2020s, the survival rates are a LOT higher for those who are taken to a proper level trauma center quickly 🙂 

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17 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

Pretty good overall yeah 🙂 I'm glad this will be formulated more clearly and is being discussed. It gives medical intervention a stronger place, it also places illegal players in an interesting situation ("My buddy took a bullet in the face - he MIGHT survive but I can't just bring him to our street doc, I gotta call 911 - this in turn might send him to jail, what do I do?"). It's also nice because it acknowledges the progress of medicine in the last 20 years - the idea that "head shot = instant death" is very true, but in the 1990s where it was ~5% of survival rate. I mentioned in another thread that in the 2020s, the survival rates are a LOT higher for those who are taken to a proper level trauma center quickly 🙂 

 

Not to mention that head also means: 

  • Shot their ear off
  • Shot their nose off
  • Shot through the cheeks / busted jawline
  • Lost an eye

There is a score of life definining, debilitating and deforming injuries that might develop a character more. And I'm sure some gangers may want to rock that disfigured look!

Edited by Kraethas
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