An honest discussion about the upcoming election

[Kassandra]

I feel like a lot of people don't understand much about party politics in the modern day, but also in America.

For one, you can register as a Democrat or a Republican when you sign up to vote. Now as far as I'm aware, that's essentially what you're doing here. You're stating your intention to broadly support one or another based on their federal views and standpoints.

 

In addition, the idea that you meet up with party's before joining in 2020 is funny to me.

Most big 'standard' parties like the Dems and Reps, you just sign up for online. That's it. Congrats! You can attend some internal events (usually if you pay for tickets) and you get stuffed on an email list.

Like, that's it. Unless you're joining a specific usually small or ideology-heavy group, like a local Communist party or something who tend to have member vetting processes in place.

 

Hell it was a big thing in the UK with a bunch of people registering for Labour online in 2 minutes in order to try and keep Corbyn in, it's called Entryism. 

 

--

 

That said, on the subject overall, I don't mind how it's being handled. I do understand people's concerns, but without seeing exactly how the electoral system is going to work in full, I think having something bog standard Dem vs Rep with established big parties is fine. Yes, I also want to see how smaller parties do, but let's be real in most of America the dichtonomy of politics is always going to be between those two for the time being and I think it best represents America by letting that set the standard for what's to come.

If, later down the line, we can loosen up and let smaller parties then have a grab at it, wonderful it'll feel like an actual big change whereas right now, let's be real, any activity at all from the government is a bloody big change. 

 

I think we're all rightfully airing concerns, but perhaps not giving the situation a chance to develop before assuming it's going to crash and burn. Let's see how it plays out and if you think you can contribute, work with LFM and offer to help out. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Kassandra

[Gambler]

@Tsarna Did you just make a list of cons for all the limitations that the current format provides?  I'll provide you with counterpoints to your outrageous paragraphs.
 

-Answer to the first paragraph.

Yes, Chairmans can be voted off and on from within the party. Limit that and it's piss poor RP. Like it or not popularity is part of politics. Charismatic and trustworthy figures always have an edge. 

 

-Answer to the second paragraph.

There is a difference between not being from the US and having US citizenship. The second one gives you the right to vote along with any other right that any US citizen has. Also, persons with a criminal history can work, as long as they served their sentence. Only the ones currently serving can.

 

-Answer to the third paragraph
Notbond also mentioned and threatened players indirectly with...(image below). I don't understand the meaning of that post? What does it imply?  If you win elections because you're clearly better, they can still trash you? How can one begin to imagine running as independent after reading that? That is just a polite threat to keep people only on those two parties. And yes, some parties do have 5 members IRL. But still, we're in a game, a big party usually doesn't have 5 members, you're correct, but at the same time, a city doesn't have only 500 citizens. Start working with percentages and ratios, not just plain numbers.

 

-Answer to the fourth paragraph
Like it or not, criminals will always look to strengthen their position. Oligarchs exist, corruption exists, puppets exist. And that is why it becomes way more important than a party and it's a member should have the right to vote off a leader. What you outrageously and out of pure ignorance call a "middle-ground party", and also proceed with your judgmental attitude to call them out, for making it for popularity reasons, is actually what is globally known as the third party.

 

-Answer to the fifth paragraph.

COO is out of the discussion here. He was appointed so that the current government(what is left of it) can continue to be somewhat functional, and there's nothing more to it. As for blackmailing and extortion, you're overreacting. Sometimes overthinking makes you think the worst and the most impossible outcome. I don't think the mayor can be that shady without Legal FM noticing, taking into consideration how much they micromanage at this point.
 

-Answer to the sixth paragraph
Irrelevant information. I feel like I would just be bashing you if I add anything to that.

 

-Answer to the seventh paragraph
On that, I agree with you. But still, it worries me that you think that will happen. You think the applicants are that dumb and weak roleplayers. You insult my intelligence, and everyone else intelligence by mentioning something as obvious as this. 

OVERALL: Stop making it personal ? . 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gambler

[Tsarna]

24 minutes ago, Gambler said:

@Tsarna Did you just make a list of cons for all the limitations that the current format provide?  I'll provide you with counterpoints to your outrageous paragraphs.
-Answer to the first paragraph.

Yes Chairmans can be voted off and on from within the party. Limit that and it's piss poor RP. Like it or not populairty is part of politics. Charismatic and trustworthy figures always have the edge. 

 

-Answer to the second paragraph.

There is a difference from not being from the US and having US citizenship. The second one gives you the right to vote along with any other right that any US citizen has. Also, persons with a criminal history can work, as long as they served their sentence. Only the ones currently serving can.

 

-Answer to the third paragraph
Notbond also mentioned and threatned players inderectly with...(image below). I don't understand the meaning of that post? What does it imply?  If you win elections because you're clearly better, they can still trash you? How can one begin to imagine running as independed after reading that. That is just a polite threat to keep people only on those two parties. And yes, some parties do have 5 members IRL. But still we're in a game, a big party usually doesn't have 5 members, you're correct, but at the same time, a city doesn't have only 500 citizens. Start working with percentages and ratios, not just plain numbers.


-Answer to the fourth paragraph
Like it or not, criminals will always look to strengthen their position. Oligarchs exist, corruption exists, puppets exist. And that is why it becomes way more important that a party and it's member should have the right to vote off a leader. What you outrageously and out of pure ignorance call a "middle-ground party", and also proceed with you judgmental attitude to call them out, for making it for popularity reasons, is actually what is globaly known as the third party.
 

-Answer to the fifth paragraph.

COO is out of discussion here. He was appointed so that the current government(what is left of it) can continue to be somewhat functional, and there's nothing more to it. As for blackmailing and extortion, you're overreacting. Sometimes overthinking makes you think the worst and the most impossible outcome. I don't think the mayor can be that shady without Legal FM noticing, taking in consideration how much they micromanage at this point.
 

-Answer to the sixth paragraph
Irrelevant information. I feel like i would just be bashing you if I add anything to that.

 

-Answer to the seventh paragraph
On that I agree with you. But still, it worries me that you think that will happen. You think the applicants are that dumb and weak roleplayers. You insult my intelligence, and everyone else intelligence by mentioning something as obvious as this. 

OVERALL: Stop making it personal ? . 

I think you made it personal. I never mentioned nobody by name xD
Answer to first - Yes, they can be voted off. Did I mention, that they should be like Rockford was - that should happen after some deep RP, if the Chairman makes bad decisions, not just, because some group of people think, that they want to rule the party.
Answer to second - https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-citizenship-after-applying/#:~:text=The national average processing time,steps and a longer timeline. Here - how long are the people, who are there, around? Most come from Europe and other countries, so most of them are not citizens. How you going to check that? Think realistic.
Answer to third - He also mentioned, that you can run as an independent (especially in district elections). You can do as an independent whatever you want, I do not care. No, actually, five people party´s do not exist - please bring me some examples (DM please though - bring me examples of Party´s which exist with five people are in power). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party - here, a the simplest and easiest source for you: the leadership of a party usually consists of four people - so you telling me that you will have a party consisting of the Leadership + One member.
Answer to fourth - Oligarchs in the US? And about the middle ground party aka IHI/Italian Party - you keep bringing up realism in other answers, but then, when it suits you, you are talking about some middle ground party, which is non-existent in the US. Funny, how ya suit yourself.
Answer to fifth - Well, like Detectives in the PD can not be corrupt, also it is good, that LFM looks over the Government, or it will be run over by people like there are now: who just take the paychecks, and do nothing. This should change and hopefully does.
Answer to sixth - I would be bashing you as well, who was sleeping six months ago in BITE (homeless and still studying in the university), and now is some local politician + star psychologist half a year later. So, do not come at me with that. 
Answer to seventh - Well, it is a risk. So if you feel insulted by it, then you are actually feeling the danger.

OVERALL: Stop making it personal Yaself, and DM if you have any problems, Miss Lumiere.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Tsarna

[Zayyy]

16 minutes ago, Gambler said:

@Tsarna Did you just make a list of cons for all the limitations that the current format provides?  I'll provide you with counterpoints to your outrageous paragraphs.
 

-Answer to the first paragraph.

Yes, Chairmans can be voted off and on from within the party. Limit that and it's piss poor RP. Like it or not popularity is part of politics. Charismatic and trustworthy figures always have an edge. 

 

-Answer to the second paragraph.

There is a difference between not being from the US and having US citizenship. The second one gives you the right to vote along with any other right that any US citizen has. Also, persons with a criminal history can work, as long as they served their sentence. Only the ones currently serving can.

 

-Answer to the third paragraph
Notbond also mentioned and threatened players indirectly with...(image below). I don't understand the meaning of that post? What does it imply?  If you win elections because you're clearly better, they can still trash you? How can one begin to imagine running as independent after reading that? That is just a polite threat to keep people only on those two parties. And yes, some parties do have 5 members IRL. But still, we're in a game, a big party usually doesn't have 5 members, you're correct, but at the same time, a city doesn't have only 500 citizens. Start working with percentages and ratios, not just plain numbers.

 

-Answer to the fourth paragraph
Like it or not, criminals will always look to strengthen their position. Oligarchs exist, corruption exists, puppets exist. And that is why it becomes way more important than a party and it's a member should have the right to vote off a leader. What you outrageously and out of pure ignorance call a "middle-ground party", and also proceed with your judgmental attitude to call them out, for making it for popularity reasons, is actually what is globally known as the third party.

 

-Answer to the fifth paragraph.

COO is out of the discussion here. He was appointed so that the current government(what is left of it) can continue to be somewhat functional, and there's nothing more to it. As for blackmailing and extortion, you're overreacting. Sometimes overthinking makes you think the worst and the most impossible outcome. I don't think the mayor can be that shady without Legal FM noticing, taking into consideration how much they micromanage at this point.
 

-Answer to the sixth paragraph
Irrelevant information. I feel like I would just be bashing you if I add anything to that.

 

-Answer to the seventh paragraph
On that, I agree with you. But still, it worries me that you think that will happen. You think the applicants are that dumb and weak roleplayers. You insult my intelligence, and everyone else intelligence by mentioning something as obvious as this. 

OVERALL: Stop making it personal ? . 

Uhm, you don't have to take this personally. You are riddling Tsarna's words and making them sound 'different'.

[Memozzy]

3 hours ago, BinaryRun said:

I think that's something that will be largely upon discretion of the player.

It'll be a baaad time then, imho. But then again I'm of the mind-set of 'Oh well' as of late. 

[Gambler]

18 minutes ago, Tsarna said:

I think you made it personal. I never mentioned nobody by name xD
Answer to first - Yes, they can be voted off. Did I mention, that they should be like Rockford was - that should happen after some deep RP, if the Chairman makes bad decisions, not just, because some group of people think, that they want to rule the party.
Answer to second - https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-citizenship-after-applying/#:~:text=The national average processing time,steps and a longer timeline. Here - how long are the people, who are there, around? Most come from Europe and other countries, so most of them are not citizens. How you going to check that? Think realistic.
Answer to third - He also mentioned, that you can run as an independent (especially in district elections). You can do as an independent whatever you want, I do not care. No, actually, five people party´s do not exist - please bring me some examples (DM please though - bring me examples of Party´s which exist with five people are in power).
Answer to fourth - Oligarchs in the US? And about the middle ground party aka IHI/Italian Party - you keep bringing up realism in other answers, but then, when it suits you, you are talking about some middle ground party, which is non-existent in the US. Funny, how ya suit yourself.
Answer to fifth - Well, like Detectives in the PD can not be corrupt, also it is good, that LFM looks over the Government, or it will be run over by people like there are now: who just take the paychecks, and do nothing. This should change and hopefully does.
Answer to sixth - I would be bashing you as well, who was sleeping six months ago in BITE (homeless and still studying in the university), and now is some local politician + star psychologist half a year later. So, do not come at me with that. 
Answer to seventh - Well, it is a risk. So if you feel insulted by it, then you are actually feeling the danger.

OVERALL: Stop making it personal Yaself, and DM if you have any problems, Miss Lumiere.
 

Again you're completely incorrect, and stop calling me by my characters  name. I don't have any problem with you, more so I have a problem with you making points pro to what the current format is. It is bad and stop supporting it. 

Answer to first- AGAIN, DO NOT MAKE ME REPEAT MYSELF. Popularity it itself can be a reason. If members in your party do not want to follow you, they can replace you. Easily. 
Answer to second- No one cares about that link. People can RP being citizens for how long they like.
Answer to the third- He did say that, but you're ignoring that image. Do your own research, Libertarian party is one. There are several third parties.

Answer to fourth- Again, do you own research, it's a thing. Get educated.

Answer to fifth- Agree there. Not much to discuss.
Answer to sixth- Did you just try to bash my rp, using, that half a year developement as government employee and doctor, starting my rp ever since my character was a poor student in a bad connotation as poor rp? Jesus.  I don't want to fall your level and try to belittle others. I'm not a bartender that works in dozens of clubs as bartender and also leader of GOP(at the time).
Answer to seventh- Never denied the risk. It's obvious.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gambler

[CobraEleven]

Just now, Gambler said:

Again you're completely incorrect, and stop calling me by my IC name. I don't have any problem with you, more so I have a problem with you making points pro to what the current format is. It is bad and stop supporting it. 

Answer to first- AGAIN, DO NOT MAKE ME REPEAT MYSELF. Popularity it itself can be a reason. If members in your party do not want to follow you, they can replace you. Easily. 
Answer to second- No one cares about that link. People can RP being citizens for how long they like.
Answer to the third- He did say that, but you're ignoring that image. Do your own research, Libertarian party is one. There are several third parties.

Answer to fourth- Again, do you own research, it's a thing. Get educated.

Answer to fifth- Agree there. Not much to discuss.
Answer to sixth- Did you just try to bash my rp, using, that half a year developement as government employee and doctor, starting my rp ever since my character was a poor student in a bad connotation as poor rp? Jesus.  I don't want to fall your level and try to belittle others. I'm not a bartender that works in dozens of clubs as bartender and also leader of GOP(at the time).

I've been told that I was toxic... but shit, I'm an angel after reading this.

[Mecovy]

So then, changing the subject to something more relating to this.

 

I really think people need to wait, speculation is in its own name. You are guessing, based on ever changing information and zero idea whats going on properly behind the scenes. If you'd stop arguing for a week and wait, I'm sure things will start to become clearer as to why things are like this. I have a semi decent idea of what they are going for as I'm quite privileged to know a guy. And I think everyone will seriously begin to realize all their bickering is entirely wrong and missing the point of what they want gov to be. Whilst clashing of ego's is indicative of most politicians, it serves no place on an OOC stage and only digs each of you a deeper hole. Just trust me, and have a little faith of what they're doing and you will begin to see the grass is greener in their ideas.

 

So relax, head to the winchester, grab a pint and this will blow over and produce something decent.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mecovy

[Tsarna]

12 minutes ago, Gambler said:

Again you're completely incorrect, and stop calling me by my characters  name. I don't have any problem with you, more so I have a problem with you making points pro to what the current format is. It is bad and stop supporting it. 

Answer to first- AGAIN, DO NOT MAKE ME REPEAT MYSELF. Popularity it itself can be a reason. If members in your party do not want to follow you, they can replace you. Easily. 
Answer to second- No one cares about that link. People can RP being citizens for how long they like.
Answer to the third- He did say that, but you're ignoring that image. Do your own research, Libertarian party is one. There are several third parties.

Answer to fourth- Again, do you own research, it's a thing. Get educated.

Answer to fifth- Agree there. Not much to discuss.
Answer to sixth- Did you just try to bash my rp, using, that half a year developement as government employee and doctor, starting my rp ever since my character was a poor student in a bad connotation as poor rp? Jesus.  I don't want to fall your level and try to belittle others. I'm not a bartender that works in dozens of clubs as bartender and also leader of GOP(at the time).

Answer to first - no, actually popularity can not be the sole reason to change Leadership overnight. There are steps which will be taken. If someone is popular, then he will be voted in, indeed, but this also does not happen overnight. 
Second - Yep, but when they have said, they just came to the US, and are not, then what would happen? Can not let them vote? xD Or do they need to change their RP to suit for voting? I mean, I agree, that this link should be not cared off. Every player in the server (except maybe prisoners in prison during election time) will have ONE vote. End of discussion. (whatever he rp-s as). 
Thrid - You said "five member parties exist". I am waiting for proof. 
Fourth - No, there is no middle ground party (or what you wanted to call it) in the US, get educated yourself. LFM is actually good in taking the two major parties at first and then developing it from there. So KUDOS to them - NotBond and the team are doing quite fine, and they are working hard on it. 
Fifth - I am not bashing your RP, but you went there and said it yaself at first "I would be bashing you". I am not Leader of GOP, and I bartend in Out of Towners only, which I own, so "Fake News". Government employee + doctor, leading doctor in a clinic: and that all in four months. Well, well - you are quite the fast one then, and yet you call me bad ?

And - now, please bring it all to DM, if you have further issues with me. This is not the place nor thread to argue about personal problems. I brought up some issues which were on my mind (and was not intended to attack no individual), and ya took it as some "do not insult my intelligence/i would be bashing you" post - so, please, spare me here and DM me. I will make some coffee and wait.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Tsarna

[Gambler]

2 minutes ago, Tsarna said:

Answer to first - no, actually popularity can not be the sole reason to change Leadership overnight. There are steps which will be taken. If someone is popular, then he will be voted in, indeed, but this also does not happen overnight. 
Second - Yep, but when they have said, they just came to the US, and are not, then what would happen? Can not let them vote? xD Or do they need to change their RP to suit for voting? I mean, I agree, that this link should be not cared off. Every player in the server (except maybe prisoners in prison during election time) will have ONE vote. End of discussion. (whatever he rp-s as). 
Thrid - You said "five member parties exist". I am waiting for proof. 
Fourth - No, there is no middle ground party (or what you wanted to call it) in the US, get educated yourself. LFM is actually good in taking the two major parties at first and then developing it from there. So KUDOS to them - NotBond and the team are doing quite fine, and they are working hard on it. 
Fifth - I am not bashing your RP, but you went there and said it yaself at first "I would be bashing you". I am not Leader of GOP, and I bartend in Out of Towners only, which I own, so "Fake News". Government employee + doctor, leading doctor in a clinic: and that all in four months. Well, well - you are quite the fast one then, and yet you call me bad ?

And - now, please bring it all to DM, if you have further issues with me. This is not the place nor thread to argue about personal problems. I brought up some issues which were on my mind (and was not intended to attack no individual), and ya took it as some "do not insult my intelligence/i would be bashing you" post - so, please, spare me here and DM me. I will make some coffee and wait.

Okay man. You look convinced on your points. Keep believing what you want and telling yourself everything is okay the way it is. Keep telling the others that came up with this plan that they're doing a good job as well. It's so anti-productive. Do not incourage others into thinking they have a great idea. Like that one friend that tells you that you have a beautiful singing voice, and also tells you to go at Xfactor, then you become a meme.