[CRITICISM] Poor application process

[Good Character]

To preface this criticism I already spoke about this topic pre-application submission on Discord. Furthermore, this is not an insult to existing members of the server who have been accepted, but rather rectify issues IMO to allow future applicants to correctly identify what the application is asking for. 

 

I have been roleplaying through games for approximately 12-13 years. I initially started on GTA:SA as a good portion of you likely had. Some of you surely know me, but I'll remain anonymous for now. Since the birth of GTA roleplay there's always been a fixation on two ideas: that "perfect" English equals creative, good roleplay and the perceived idea of "realism". As I've branched out towards other mediums I've found first idea to not be true, and given my real life career as a big-city cop that the perceived idea of "realism" isn't realism at all.

 

The first issue with the application: the character background. Long have GTA servers requiring applications expected you to detail your character's life story as if you're creating an autobiography from birth to death. However, this leads to stunted growth during your character's tenure while it exists on the server. Though, I do respect the drift towards also focusing on flaws and strengths in this portion. Still, there's an expectation to establish a character with great achievements (at least per my denial reason), rather than make those achievements in-game.

 

 

-SNIPPED-

 

 

tl;dr: Require specifically what points are expected out of the backstory, make the focus of the scenarios based on the idea of "does this further future roleplay?" and less about "how likely would this guy face negative consequences IC?", and don't complicate what doesn't need to be complicated. Dumb character =/= bad roleplay. Not accepting consequences = bad roleplay. 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Moonsong
Removed application questions / answers

[Mecovy]

1. Backstories a test of English ability and understanding of realistic portrayal.

 

2. Scenarios are supposed to be somewhat challenging, to make you think and display proper understanding of the rules.

 

3. By making people put effort into the application, it cuts down on the people wanting to join simply just to troll. 

[Sebz]

As someone who has been tasked with handling applications on another server, I can back up Mecovy's points above and tell you that he's hit the nail on the head. The application is not meant to be fun, easy or overly scrutinized. It's strictly in place to weed out bad apples and those who aren't up to server standards.

 

As far as the character background story goes, it literally doesn't matter with regards to how you actually RP your character on the server. Nobody is forcing you to roleplay that story once you're accepted. It's literally an English/Character portrayal test, as Mecovy stated above.

[mj2002]

I have to admit I somewhat share the thoughts expressed on the scenarios here. When I did my application, I was really trying to understand what possible answers the reviewer could be looking for, rather than something that might constitute good roleplay, since the scenarios are so vague and the range of possible answers are so ambiguous. This doesn't go for all scenarios, but some are just silly.  I hope they are regularly reviewed and that the vague ones are thrown out.

Edited June 20, 2020 by mj2002

[Bloodseeker]

neither of those questions are there to be graded like a teacher would grade your exam paper, they're there to make sure you know what you're doing (and by that I mean you know how to roleplay, can communicate in english & have read the rules). the server has to have a way of separating the good apples from the bad apples, and maybe this isn't the best way, but it is what it is and the method has served the server well enough as far as I can see

 

if it's any consolation i have been in staff and handled several of these applications myself and I'm not just talking out of my ass in the name of solely disagreeing with you. i wish you could experience the perspective of staff in this matter, then you'd truly understand. I'm saying this because I used to have similar thoughts, until I found myself on the other side of the spectrum

 

while probably not perfect, it is indeed necessary. you bring up compelling points though. at least the staff here is doing an excellent job at communicating with the playerbase so I'm sure your concerns won't go unnoticed

[Good Character]

30 minutes ago, Mecovy said:

1. Backstories a test of English ability and understanding of realistic portrayal.

 

2. Scenarios are supposed to be somewhat challenging, to make you think and display proper understanding of the rules.

 

3. By making people put effort into the application, it cuts down on the people wanting to join simply just to troll. 

I don't disagree with any of these points.

 

For the first, and while I don't want to also go on a tangent where it seems like I'm venting about my own denial, doesn't hold true from my experience. I'm going to toot my own horn here and say I think my English is pretty well-versed, however I was still denied for poor English. I'm under the opinion that a "catch all" denial for that portion was used. I was also told to list "achievements" and a multitude were given as an example that could be established in-game, however they were expected in the backstory.

 

For the second, while I agree that should be a challenging to really root out those who understand the rules versus just can regurgitate them, there's only one scenario that picks out an actual rule break. The rest touch on the "perspective of realism" I mentioned.

 

For the third, I don't disagree. The application process will still require it with the criticisms I mentioned.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Good Character

[GHawkins]

8 hours ago, Good Character said:

The first issue with the application: the character background. Long have GTA servers requiring applications expected you to detail your character's life story as if you're creating an autobiography from birth to death. However, this leads to stunted growth during your character's tenure while it exists on the server. Though, I do respect the drift towards also focusing on flaws and strengths in this portion. Still, there's an expectation to establish a character with great achievements (at least per my denial reason), rather than make those achievements in-game.

 

Although your character is entirely yours to figure out, he or she is not a blank canvas anymore by the time you start playing them on GTA World. Let's assume you apply with a character that's 18 years old.

 

That means you have to fill in those 18 years. Your character has had their entire childhood already, they had relationships, romantic or friendly, that changed them and the way they look at the world. They have had experiences they learned from. They have dreams they want to chase, or have already seen crushed. They have been in accidents or events that formed their fears, or overcame obstacles that bolstered their self confidence. They are just fresh out of school and eager to get out there, or they didn't have the benefit of an education and have been on their own to survive.

 

The older your character, the more you have to figure this out.

 

A character without a proper background is a character that isn't well thought out. Everything you have experienced so far in life has shaped you to be you, in one way or another. You're simply asked to do the same for your character, detailing those defining moments that made them who they are and how they see the world. And that does not mean your in game experiences don't matter. They just have to make sense in relation to the character you created and what they experienced so far.

Edited June 20, 2020 by GHawkins

[Moonsong]

Whilst feedback is always appreciated on ways to improve the application process actually posting scenarios and discussing them on the forums, defeats their very purpose, you're basically aiding people who plagiarise their applications at this point. It's definitely NOT allowed. In my opinion, the application is infact very easy for those who have a good understanding of realistic roleplay, if people are struggling with scenario answers then it's likely they're not fit for the server. That's just how it should be.

 

Locked on that note.

[Notbond]

Going to unlock this thread to allow more discussion about the application system, as Moonsong as highlighted above, we don't want to have to moderate this thread any further and remove posts containing application questions + answers. The questions are dynamic and we do change which ones are in circulations and add new ones over time. 

 

The backstory does not have to be of a character you will roleplay (mine wasn't) but one that you could/are willing to roleplay. It has to be realistic and the focus on flaws was to put an emphasis on the types of behaviors we want to see. The ideas of the scenario questions are often to push people towards thinking about roleplay situations in a way that they might not be used to from their previous experience.

 

If you have feedback on how you feel we can improve the application process in general please carry on posting. 

[mj2002]

6 hours ago, Notbond said:

The backstory does not have to be of a character you will roleplay (mine wasn't) but one that you could/are willing to roleplay.

I don't remember the phrasing of the application particularly well, but this was not how I saw the backstory question. When you are unfamiliar with GTA:W, it comes across as if it ought to be the backstory of the character you will be playing. Maybe this can be clarified. However minor the improvement, it would still help.