Issues with "security" portrayal at businesses.

[Raisin]

Most of security guards are millionaires at the same time, noticed that long long time ago. Where is the roleplay quality team? ? 

[sky~]

26 minutes ago, Roza. said:

Most of security guards are millionaires at the same time, noticed that long long time ago. Where is the roleplay quality team? ? 

But not all of them roleplay like one, so I don't see a big issue with it.

While there can be some improvements, saying security people are trigger-happy is false. I've not once seen one actually pull out a gun, and I've been going to nightclubs on the daily where security is present.

Edited May 25, 2020 by xime

[Gazzeh]

I've quickly glanced over the topic and would like to say that in town like Los Santos, anyone who has a PF license is gonna carry it. There's a lot to be done on the clubs side aswell, for example: pat people down or get metal detectors to avoid any guns being taken into the club, legal or not and then have unarmed security inside. Criminals that see an issue with everyone owning a gun can put part of the blame on themselves aswell. 8 criminals out of 10 have a gun on them. Less guns you have, the more safe people will feel, currently people aren't feeling safe anywhere cause cops are only looking for action and you can get robbed absolutely anywhere.

 

[zaXer.]

3 hours ago, El Capitan said:

First, most club security personnel aren't even in official attire besides a shirt that says "SECURITY" on it let alone carrying an armed weapon ? I understand we're in a world where businesses hire private security companies for this but generally club security are people that work for the club, not a privatized company. Second, there's no need to dress in attire that makes you look like you're in a militia or paramilitary group. I also understand going for a professional look, but that's taking things overboard especially for a club-type setting. A dark t-shirt, cargo pants and work boots would do just fine. You're not supposed to be there to scare people away, contrary to popular belief. The club owner I'm sure wants people to come in, not leave at the door. People are trigger happy, but more often than not, you won't need to pull a weapon as security. If someone comes back to shoot you just because you wouldn't let them in, they need to be reported for awful role play standards rather than you engage in a firefight with them. There are many avenues to take besides pulling the trigger.

 

*Gets off soapbox* ?

i dont know of a shirt that writes 'security' on it but if you find one in game please let me know. Let's bring actual thigns here not stuff you bring out of your rear

[Blöp]

We don't roleplay LA 1:1. Even though I believe security should not dress up like an army, if shootings happen quite often then realistically they would dress for bigger threats. Our goal, in my opinion, is not to replicate everything just as in real-life but to create an environment where things happen realistically based on the consequences of different actions. About a week ago I stopped near a club and two people were shot to death right next to the entrance. After an incident like this it is more than okay to dress up in a heavier suit for a while. 

 

I own a PF license for 500 hours now and a CCW for at least 200 and never had to use it. I don't believe we should create more strict laws around the licenses but we should enforce the correct usage, in-character, and out-of-character too.

Edited May 25, 2020 by liafriuli

[El Capitan]

 

5 hours ago, liafriuli said:

We don't roleplay LA 1:1. Even though I believe security should not dress up like an army, if shootings happen quite often then realistically they would dress for bigger threats. Our goal, in my opinion, is not to replicate everything just as in real-life but to create an environment where things happen realistically based on the consequences of different actions. About a week ago I stopped near a club and two people were shot to death right next to the entrance. After an incident like this it is more than okay to dress up in a heavier suit for a while. 

 

I own a PF license for 500 hours now and a CCW for at least 200 and never had to use it. I don't believe we should create more strict laws around the licenses but we should enforce the correct usage, in-character, and out-of-character too.

I can agree with this. It's definitely situational depending on the event, but I support a different approach to the issue rather than creating more strict laws around PF and CCW.

Edited May 25, 2020 by El Capitan

[GHawkins]

The number one purpose of security is the number one thing that appears to rarely work on here: Deterrence.

 

Law enforcement is primarily response based. Something happens and law enforcement take action to apprehend the suspect and assist the victim.

 

Security services are primarily prevention. The idea is to make sure nobody becomes a suspect of a crime nor a victim of one. The presence of a security is supposed to make the cost of certain illegal actions outweigh the benefit of doing said actions, that being fighting, vandalism, theft, murder, etcetera.

 

This does not work when the security is not taken seriously. Why security is not taken seriously? Because people either outgun the security services and know it, are able to outclick them in a fight or disregard them completely because they're not part of a law enforcement faction.

 

Even in this very topic, in the streamable linked before, you can see this; The person that made the streamable decided to attack another person with a deadly weapon right in front of 2 security officers while already having their attention, with another 3-4 security officers within sight. The "magdump" from the security officer that opened fire first appears to be the most realistic thing in the entire situation, because it takes a lot of training in situations like this to not keep pulling the trigger (refer to a whole load of police related shootings in the US where a large quantity if pistol ammunition is used).

 

So what's the response? Up-arming and armouring the security services. If people don't take the friendly-but-firm security officer seriously, perhaps they take the friendly-armed-and-armoured security officer seriously when they get confronted with the fact they have a gun and is wearing a vest. Because doing that is the language people appear to speak, seeing it in front of their noses. Especially when the friendly-armed-and-armoured security officer has to become the not-so-friendly-armed-and-armoured security officer.

 

And this is not an unrealistic development either. Securitas, one of if not the biggest private security companies in the world, has their employees in the United States go out in overt vests and openly carrying firearms while doing their regular patrol rounds, depending on the state. The vest is useful because of the amount of stuff it allows you to carry around while being protected from certain threats, the cargo pants someone commented on earlier serve a similar purpose.

 

No security company on this server rolls around in MRAPs, no security company flies Little Birds while having people hanging onto the sides, no security companies walk around with assault rifles. So I'd highly recommend the people accusing the security companies on this server of acting like private military companies to reconsider their definition of PMCs, as it's so far rather baseless.

 

People appear to have the expectation that a security guard should be someone in a black shirt with "SECURITY" stamped on it and that being that. And being that in this video game is pretty much career suicide; you won't be able to handle any situation unless you severely outnumber whoever is causing a ruckus, your boss will wonder what you're being paid for and either no longer hires your company or you.

 

The security sphere on this server is the result of people's actions surrounding and interacting with said security. The answer is the current status-quo.

Edited May 25, 2020 by GHawkins
Typo fix

[arrdef]

I've worked in unarmed security in essentially all settings mentioned in this discussion, although not in the U.S.

If people frequently shot up my place of work, I would quit (I enjoy living), and I presume armed law enforcement would take my place. In the U.S and in GTAW, it's armed security guards, because armed security is a thing in the U.S.

 

I think Hawkins explained that concept fairly thoroughly. You can't expect anyone to roleplay a security guard exactly like they are IRL, if the things they encounter on a daily basis are 5000x more dangerous.

Edited May 25, 2020 by arrdef

[Kuma]

18 hours ago, sambo said:

It's strange as fuck how security guards on this server often seem to refuse to acknowledge a character's appearance when deciding whether or not to ask them for ID; guards tend to just ID everyone for some reason.

 

 

As a bartender irl, technically I have to ask EVERY person for ID, just to cover my own ass. If ALE (Alchohol Law Enforcement) comes in, and starts to ID people, and someone doesn't have an ID (whether I checked them or not, whether I know them or not) then the establishment gets a fine. We're technically supposed to guarantee 100 % that someone is of drinking age. There are exceptions to different locales though. LA might have looser liquor laws etc than say NC. 

[Valkyria]

40 minutes ago, GHawkins said:

The number one purpose of security is the number one thing that appears to rarely work on here: Deterrence.

 

Law enforcement is primarily response based. Something happens and law enforcement take action to apprehend the suspect and assist the victim.

 

Security services are primarily prevention. The idea is to make sure nobody becomes a suspect of a crime nor a victim of one. The presence of a security is supposed to make the cost of certain illegal actions outweigh the benefit of doing said actions, that being fighting, vandalism, theft, murder, etcetera.

 

This does not work when the security is not taken seriously. Why security is not taken seriously? Because people either outgun the security services and know it, are able to outclick them in a fight or disregard them completely because they're not part of a law enforcement faction.

 

Even in this very topic, in the streamable linked before, you can see this; The person that made the streamable decided to attack another person with a deadly weapon right in front of 2 security officers while already having their attention, with another 3-4 security officers within sight. The "magdump" from the security officer that opened fire first appears to be the most realistic thing in the entire situation, because it takes a lot of training in situations like this to not keep pulling the trigger (refer to a whole load of police related shootings in the US where a large quantity if pistol ammunition is used).

 

So what's the response? Up-arming and armouring the security services. If people don't take the friendly-but-firm security officer seriously, perhaps they take the friendly-armed-and-armoured security officer seriously when they get confronted with the fact they have a gun and is wearing a vest. Because doing that is the language people appear to speak, seeing it in front of their noses. Especially when the friendly-armed-and-armoured security officer has to become the not-so-friendly-armed-and-armoured security officer.

 

And this is not an unrealistic development either. Securitas, one of if not the biggest private security companies in the world, has their employees in the United States go out in overt vests and openly carrying firearms while doing their regular patrol rounds, depending on the state. The vest is useful because of the amount of stuff it allows you to carry around while being protected from certain threats, the cargo pants someone commented on earlier serve a similar purpose.

 

No security company on this server rolls around in MRAPs, no security company flies Little Birds while having people hanging onto the sides, no security companies walk around with assault rifles. So I'd highly recommend the people accusing the security companies on this server of acting like private military companies to reconsider their definition of PMCs, as it's so far rather baseless.

 

People appear to have the expectation that a security guard should be someone in a black shirt with "SECURITY" stamped on it and that being that. And being that in this video game is pretty much career suicide; you won't be able to handle any situation unless you severely outnumber whoever is causing a ruckus, your boss will wonder what you're being paid for and either no longer hires your company or you.

 

The security sphere on this server is the result of people's actions surrounding and interacting with said security. The answer is the current status-quo.

 

I am out of reacts, but you've nailed the thread phenomenally. Thank you.