Player Kill

[Vindus]

ck wars.

 

Edit: One thing that is worrying is people going inactive only to come back to the game to shoot people. Basing their actions solely on OOC, for example, a few people of a faction get shot so they tell their faction members who come online and instantly knows who did what cause they "put two and two together" and go on a killing spree through out Los Santos. Targeting every faction they can find with an active member base that focus on realistic role play. 

And I think it has been made clear that San Andreas is portrayed as a part of Cali and Los Santos as LA. There was even a discussion on it previously where it was stated that in our realm, cali and La don't exist and has been replaces with SA and LS.

There might be issues on both sides of every conflict but what I can say is that if I notice poor portrayal or bad behavior in my own faction, I handle it. If it is a person in a group affiliated, then I or one of the co-leaders talk to that faction's leader. I am unable to say that this happens in all other factions as some in certain groups leaves their members portrayal and roleplay  unchecked until it reaches a point which is just laughable. 

Edit: I believe that some people will always find a reason to introduce themselves back into a conflict and once one side begins doing that, there is no ending to the conflict. Like the examples you provided with, let's say one side introduces characters that had previously been killed to a conflict, the other side would do that too and the conflict would go on forever. The only solutions to it is to have staff closely watching a "pk-war" with clear boundaries and rules, or the best solution is to force the groups to engage in a CK-war, even though one side of it does not like the idea, it is the best solution. "PK-wars" are very confusing, especially when people re-introduces themselves time after time again, there are examples of characters re-introducing themselves several times, it becomes a complete joke, especially when the same people that does these things complains and reports the other side. It takes to focus of the roleplay and people start focusing on winning the conflict by any means. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Vindus

[eTaylor]

Doesn't a PK war just make a war impossible to track? Unless both factions keep an honest log of who dies and who doesn't, how do you even track the development of that war? And shouldn't a war be more than just body count? I get that the PK-CK separation is there to protect your progress and your character from random loss, but a war where you can't kill each other off seems kind of stupid. If it's a turf issue, imagine a bigger gang with more resources attacking a smaller gang. At what point does the smaller gang move out when it's a PK war? Wouldn't they just keep respawning, keep roleplaying at their site and keep getting involved with every attack? What do you do if you have a group of four enemies of which you killed three in an earlier attack? Do you ignore the three? Do they ignore you? If you're in a gang, and you enter a gang war there should either be clear rules where the killed characters are either logged and required to avoid the contested area or just not have gang wars without CK's. 

 

Also, I'm not in a gang that engages in street combat in Los Santos so if someone could explain how that actually works right now that would be great! I can't imagine two gangs in the same area fighting over a block to ever end without one gang going inactive or something.

[Max3]

1 hour ago, eTaylor said:

Unless both factions keep an honest log of who dies and who doesn't, how do you even track the development of that war?

This is pretty much how you do it but it gets hard because if you want to pull up on the group but someone who is pk’d out is there you can either not go, go and kill said person along with the others and get reported, or kill everyone but that person and they are now somehow “reintroduced”. 

[Nervous]

We've done CK wars everytime we could, and everytime it ends up way worse than what we initially wanted to solve. Unfortunately no one is able to properly give up their characters / factions, and I kind of understand it. Everyone here is going to say PK are bad, but on the admin side whenever we have to deal with CK wars, it's hundreds if not thousands of massive drama hours for everyone involved, that makes us want to just quit it entirely and close both factions.

Every. Single. Time.

 

So we keep pushing for CK wars when we can, but most of the time IC wars are OOC wars too, and CK wars really don't fit at all in this as we witnessed in all our previous experiences. So what's the solution ? I have none. Constant CKs never worked and will not work either, no more CK isn't imaginable, so I don't see a better solution than what we have today. Something hybrid, and we expect both side to play it fair.

[Triple-J]

13 hours ago, Henning said:

How can you say that this is a topic for another thread when you literally brought it up? Seriously, lets not sit here and play pretend, this thread is about the JTM V. Sureno war.

You're talking about the realistic portrayal of la eme and portrayal of fear for them. THAT is NOT on topic. This is about finding GTA world's defenition of a PK and asking 1. why it's not in the rules? 2. How are admins expected to maintain such reports about PK without having a rule/guideline?
Also please read:

Quote

Alright so first and foremost please don't call out other people / factions even though this is based on (recent) reports. This is honestly a question from me as I'm confused

 

 

Let me remind everyone that this is not about CK wars that's off topic. It's about the defenition of a PK in gta world, and PK wars is on topic, thanks.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Triple-J

[Garras Up]

yeah idfw ck wars, over 50% of players are incapable of roleplaying properly around death/violence let alone a full blown gang war, I'm not finna lose my character over that unless it's either a ck that someone's applied for (for an extremely valid reason) or my character dies in a manner/situation that I deem it fitting that I character kill. (For example, if my character rapes a girl and I'm killed by that girl's significant other IC, I'll usually CK as a result. This is among other situations that I'd most likely CK in. Although in 70% of situations where I'm killed, I'm gonna take it as a PK and ignore my killer's existence because realistically, I'm dead to them.)

[Hashdowns]

10 hours ago, Nervous said:

We've done CK wars everytime we could, and everytime it ends up way worse than what we initially wanted to solve. Unfortunately no one is able to properly give up their characters / factions, and I kind of understand it. Everyone here is going to say PK are bad, but on the admin side whenever we have to deal with CK wars, it's hundreds if not thousands of massive drama hours for everyone involved, that makes us want to just quit it entirely and close both factions.

 Every. Single. Time.

  

So we keep pushing for CK wars when we can, but most of the time IC wars are OOC wars too, and CK wars really don't fit at all in this as we witnessed in all our previous experiences. So what's the solution ? I have none. Constant CKs never worked and will not work either, no more CK isn't imaginable, so I don't see a better solution than what we have today. Something hybrid, and we expect both side to play it fair.

 

The common thread I've identified is that most people are willing to engage in a CK war if:
1. The IC reasons behind the war are realistically justified
2. Rules aren't broken in the midst of it

 

Given the vast amount of people who are usually involved in a war (including allies, outside hits, etc.), there doesn't ever seem to be a situation in which point #2 is met; there are going to be rotten eggs. Someone metagamed _______, someone violated a PK by engaging in _______, someone cheated. Hence, "why the fuck should I be the one to sacrifice my character when the other party wont, and they don't adhere to the rules and they're just playing to win blah-blah-blah." I'm quoting myself there. I don't think I'm alone in saying it either, regardless of which side of any amassing conflict you find yourself on.

 

So, yeah. Maybe there's not a fix-all answer. But we can try to better regulate these conflicts before they spiral. I think this is possible through:

1. More members/help for the IFM staff to assist in regulating these conflicts from the beginning so that it doesn't become a hearsay contest in the reports section when things come to a head.
 - The IFM team is busy. I've raised concerns to them that I feel were insufficiently answered, not because they don't give a shit, but because the team lacks the time/resources to investigate the mile-wide spiderwebs that are multi-faction wars.

 

2. Consistent, good-willed communication between faction leadership.
 - I'm currently the lead for a faction that has been involved in a PK war for the last 2 odd months, and have never once reached out to any of the opposing faction leaders to address concerns. That's on me. I'm not sure whether that's the norm or not, but I feel that a lot of the miscommunications that materialize in the reports section would be a lot less of an issue if people (myself included) were able to communicate more openly, and work through OOC concerns cordially. I'm not sure how to put that into practice, though.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Hashdowns
fat-fingered the submit button

[Groz]

Going to be locking this. What started out as a genuine question regarding the nature and confusion surrounding PK's turned into nothing more than a petty back and fourth argument.

 

All of the unnecessary and needless replies have been hidden. Nobody cares which side have the biggest sticks or who's the most Mexican-y Mexican faction. Sometimes a person just wants to have an open discussion on a topic confusing them, there's no need for the attitudes that were displayed here at all.

 

@Hashdowns said it best, you want things to improve? Communicate with each other in a decent manner, have open-discussions on the issues that are effecting you and work together to make things make sense for both sides. Don't turn a discussion into an argument, turn it into something constructive. Both sides are better then this.