Fix ammunations

[Centauri]

Gun store roleplay is ridiculous and actually very demotivating. It makes absolutely no money and is in the end a frustrating experience.

 

Let me lay out my current situation.

My business employee's are getting a 35% cut on the sales.

 

A combat pistol costs 8000 which would take 800 components.

35% to employees = 2800

65% to the store = 5400

Components are 250$ per 50, we need 800 comps which is equal to 16 crates

16 x 250 = 4000

Leaves the store with 1400

 

A shotgun costs 12000 takes 1200 components

35% to employees = 4200

65% to the store = 7800

1200 components equal to 24 crates

24 x 250 = 6000

Leaves the store with 1800

 

Now this looks like much on paper. Oooh 1400 per gun sale, fucking bank. No it's actually not. Keep in mind that it takes an average of 2.5 hours to get a sale that includes a firearm. In between you get either retards that troll you in the store, people that reached their monthly limit or people coming to ask for advise or for illegal sales. It is actually ridiculous how long you have to wait to get a decent sale, its so demotivating. Ammunition actually earns us jack shit, both employee and store. I have a 3 man management team, I split the total store profits in 2 so this actually means I earn 700 per sale. The 3rd person isn't getting paid extra because there's no freaking money for him.

 

People leave the business faster than the speed of light if they realize they can just grind one of the scripted jobs to get more money an hour than with roleplaying. People that actually care for the gun roleplay are sticking around but aren't that active as it literally is a waste of time. Ammunations are so neglected by the staff team that it is beyond demotivating at this point.

 

Myself and my management team put tons and tons of hours into this, we made photoshop designs, bought an entire range, office and armory. Customly decorated the armory and even went as far as buying a real domain and a server to host the website on to get an even more realistic experience. We spent hours trying to find people IG willing to come work for us and RP within the store but at the end it continues to not be worth it and demotivates us even further.

 

Fix the ammunations. There's so many ways to fix it but its literally not being done. Honestly a normal component amount like 99.9% of all other businesses in GTAW would be a great start.

[Rayy]

100% agreed. Component prices are way to high for the amount you actually need for a sale. Even in Mechanic shops, you need a high amount of them. The gun stores are blantently ignored it seems by all staff and show it no support. The server pushes for rp jobs but yet gives no support to anything that isn’t a mechanic garage or a bar/club. Its seriously demoting. The PF limit needs a increase per month, we live in america on this server not in france where their scared of guns. Gun sales should go to the person who accepted the sale and not everyone on shift and other stores should be like this as well. Using bank as a payment should honestly be at the top of the priority of needed features. It doesn’t at all make sense to be carrying more than 10k on you at once. Carrying 10k on you in loose bills just looks like you’re smuggling cash around. The store fronts are in bad need of script support right now, not random blackjack or poker scripts. World promotes rp jobs and yet does nothing for them. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Rayy

[Sidewinder]

Please fix the ammunation component pricing to match with other businesses. Theres no logical reason as to why there's such a steep difference in component pricing  compared to every other scripted business type.

[Topinambour]

I have to admit, the amount of money made was extremely underwhelming. It's a good RP'ing opportunity for Sallie which is why I stick around, but clearly if I needed the cash, I would have moved on a long, long time ago ?

 

Now, before the RP police comes and say "Well, you want MONEY because you're a BAD RP'ER who ONLY CARES about the MONEY!"... Well, those same people also usually say "If you want money, RP a job". So, while they pick one, I'll elaborate a bit ^^'

 

Right now, it feels a bit like a pretend job that makes less than the automatic paycheck. Nobody's asking for billions, of course ^^ But a better margin of profit could be interesting, since Ammu-nations are a bit special in the way they function.

 

Bars are usually RP hubs and opportunities, which is why people get in and you can rely on the player-only economy to make them work. And items such as drinks and food are items you consume, not permanent items, so each time you go there, there is an RP need to buy a new one. Same goes for clubs and restaurants, although those seem to make a tad less unfortunately.

However, Ammunations have a lot of obstacles in their way.

First, only people with a gun license can buy a gun there, which isn't necessarily a majority. Next, you need to not have reached your limit of 2/month, which for someone who's been unlucky can be quickly reached, unfortunately ? And last, the comp cost is very high, which makes the margin extremely low. 

 

And again, even if we went the (quite hypocritical ^^') way of "It's FOR THE RPz!"... Well, most times you just stand there, spamming ads and hoping a customer will come eventually. Since again, customers are far and few because of the reasons laid out above. Either you have no license - so, you don't go there. You have one but you have a gun already, no need for another since guns are permanent items, not consumable ones. You need one, but you reached the monthly limit. Or, finally, you have one and need a gun and you haven't reached the limit. This last case isn't the most common. 

 

It makes gun stores extremely unappealing businesses, while in reality they make more than decent money. There is a strong disconnection between what should happen vs. what actually happens. 

What happens in most RL gun stores, at least on the west coast, is that the profit is made from: 

- Accessories, such as cleaning stuff - you pay $1.25 for it, you sell it $5, and everyone needs some at regular intervals

- Used guns - you buy low and sell high, very profitable

- Repair and customization - you can bill whatever's reasonable and the margin of profit is high

- New guns - profit is rather low since they're sold to the stores at high prices already

 

However... The most profitable activities don't exist on GTAW. So, we're left with the most unprofitable part, which leads to a highly unappealing type of business ? 

 

Suggestions could be, from what I'd consider the best to the worst:

- Lower the comp cost considerably

- Allow some customization, since in fact you can modify weapons in California (which San Andreas is based off of). And even have an off-roster gun, as long as it's registered in Cali (a strange loophole, but one that exists nonetheless). As long as it doesn't legally turn into an assault weapon, you're all good.

- Remove the monthly limit or increase it

- Make guns wear down over time, requiring cleaning and repairs*

 

 

* I don't know about this though, since "weariness" and "having to repair" a weapon, even in non-RP games, is usually never good and always an unnecessary annoyance more than anything. It WOULD make money for gun stores, but it would be a major inconvenience for everyone else, so... while it's a possibility, it's a pretty bad one. Nobody liked the weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild, most people were annoyed by the weapons breaking in FNV, etc.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Topinambour

[Seasniff]

37 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

I have to admit, the amount of money made was extremely underwhelming. It's a good RP'ing opportunity for Sallie which is why I stick around, but clearly if I needed the cash, I would have moved on a long, long time ago ?

 

Now, before the RP police comes and say "Well, you want MONEY because you're a BAD RP'ER who ONLY CARES about the MONEY!"... Well, those same people also usually say "If you want money, RP a job". So, while they pick one, I'll elaborate a bit ^^'

 

Right now, it feels a bit like a pretend job that makes less than the automatic paycheck. Nobody's asking for billions, of course ^^ But a better margin of profit could be interesting, since Ammu-nations are a bit special in the way they function.

 

Bars are usually RP hubs and opportunities, which is why people get in and you can rely on the player-only economy to make them work. And items such as drinks and food are items you consume, not permanent items, so each time you go there, there is an RP need to buy a new one. Same goes for clubs and restaurants, although those seem to make a tad less unfortunately.

However, Ammunations have a lot of obstacles in their way.

First, only people with a gun license can buy a gun there, which isn't necessarily a majority. Next, you need to not have reached your limit of 2/month, which for someone who's been unlucky can be quickly reached, unfortunately ? And last, the comp cost is very high, which makes the margin extremely low. 

 

And again, even if we went the (quite hypocritical ^^') way of "It's FOR THE RPz!"... Well, most times you just stand there, spamming ads and hoping a customer will come eventually. Since again, customers are far and few because of the reasons laid out above. Either you have no license - so, you don't go there. You have one but you have a gun already, no need for another since guns are permanent items, not consumable ones. You need one, but you reached the monthly limit. Or, finally, you have one and need a gun and you haven't reached the limit. This last case isn't the most common. 

 

It makes gun stores extremely unappealing businesses, while in reality they make more than decent money. There is a strong disconnection between what should happen vs. what actually happens. 

What happens in most RL gun stores, at least on the west coast, is that the profit is made from: 

- Accessories, such as cleaning stuff - you pay $1.25 for it, you sell it $5, and everyone needs some at regular intervals

- Used guns - you buy low and sell high, very profitable

- Repair and customization - you can bill whatever's reasonable and the margin of profit is high

- New guns - profit is rather low since they're sold to the stores at high prices already

 

However... The most profitable activities don't exist on GTAW. So, we're left with the most unprofitable part, which leads to a highly unappealing type of business ? 

 

Suggestions could be, from what I'd consider the best to the worst:

- Lower the comp cost considerably

- Allow some customization, since in fact you can modify weapons in California (which San Andreas is based off of). And even have an off-roster gun, as long as it's registered in Cali (a strange loophole, but one that exists nonetheless). As long as it doesn't legally turn into an assault weapon, you're all good.

- Remove the monthly limit or increase it

- Make guns wear down over time, requiring cleaning and repairs*

 

 

* I don't know about this though, since "weariness" and "having to repair" a weapon, even in non-RP games, is usually never good and always an unnecessary annoyance more than anything. It WOULD make money for gun stores, but it would be a major inconvenience for everyone else, so... while it's a possibility, it's a pretty bad one. Nobody liked the weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild, most people were annoyed by the weapons breaking in FNV, etc.

Its a business and its your idea how to make money, just like in real life. You should be happy you're atleast hitting above the break-even point. There are tons of ways to increase profits and the simplest & most obvious one is; increasing the store price. 
Since I know you don't want to increase store price because it'll just demotivate other potential buyers, you could always opt for other lucrative ideas.

 

1. Contact any agency & ask if you could learn the new recruits how to shoot a gun. 
2. Go for partnerships with other businesses

3. Create a gun shooting competition, people would need to buy more guns because of certain rules & restrictions yada yada

4. Host events where people can shoot on your range with an instructor. People who don't have a license can still participate in gun culture that way.
5. Get cheaper materials.

6. Sell more gear or sell more diverse gear.

7. Sell bundled products. 'with this shotgun comes a bandolier' - 'you can test this weapon out on the range for $'

8. Stay visible to the right people, market for your target audience.

9. Keep connections to individuals & groups who constantly are in need of firearms. 

10. Try to contact people who just have gotten their license & strike a deal with them for their first gun.

 

Those are the ones I could think of on the top of my head, yet there is dozens of ways to raise your profits. Get creative ? 

[Centauri]

9 minutes ago, Seasniff said:

Its a business and its your idea how to make money, just like in real life. You should be happy you're atleast hitting above the break-even point. There are tons of ways to increase profits and the simplest & most obvious one is; increasing the store price. 
Since I know you don't want to increase store price because it'll just demotivate other potential buyers, you could always opt for other lucrative ideas.

 

1. Contact any agency & ask if you could learn the new recruits how to shoot a gun. 
2. Go for partnerships with other businesses

3. Create a gun shooting competition, people would need to buy more guns because of certain rules & restrictions yada yada

4. Host events where people can shoot on your range with an instructor. People who don't have a license can still participate in gun culture that way.
5. Get cheaper materials.

6. Sell more gear or sell more diverse gear.

7. Sell bundled products. 'with this shotgun comes a bandolier' - 'you can test this weapon out on the range for $'

8. Stay visible to the right people, market for your target audience.

9. Keep connections to individuals & groups who constantly are in need of firearms. 

10. Try to contact people who just have gotten their license & strike a deal with them for their first gun.

 

Those are the ones I could think of on the top of my head, yet there is dozens of ways to raise your profits. Get creative ? 

1. We have.

2. We have (https://www.crossmunitions.com/partnership/)

3. We have, people in this server aren't interested in shooting competitions (https://www.crossmunitions.com/previous-competitions/)

4. Same as 3, we have done events but people are generally not interested to RP it. Range is decently active tho.

5. Impossible due to script limitations

6. We sell RP gear. However not all is allowed to be sold per server staff, people can't seem to accept it isn't an actual item and it appears to be prone to PG.

7. We do give away extra stuff with sales from time to time, RPed lockbox et cetera.

8. We're doing all kinds of marketing, ads IG, sponsorship's with vespucci sport, about to buy a commercial, we do FB marketing as well. Loyalty Card system & 10% Discount flyers are also a thing to keep customers.

9. We are in connection with a security group, however this doesn't seem to work out at all, rarely get any gun sales from them.

10. This information is impossible to obtain ICly.

 

We have been creative, we have tried a lot of things to keep everything active. I've owned this business for nearly 11 months now. It's not working out.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Mike

[Jaskman220]

3 minutes ago, Seasniff said:

Its a business and its your idea how to make money, just like in real life. You should be happy you're atleast hitting above the break-even point. There are tons of ways to increase profits and the simplest & most obvious one is; increasing the store price. 
Since I know you don't want to increase store price because it'll just demotivate other potential buyers, you could always opt for other lucrative ideas.

 

1. Contact any agency & ask if you could learn the new recruits how to shoot a gun. 
2. Go for partnerships with other businesses

3. Create a gun shooting competition, people would need to buy more guns because of certain rules & restrictions yada yada

4. Host events where people can shoot on your range with an instructor. People who don't have a license can still participate in gun culture that way.
5. Get cheaper materials.

6. Sell more gear or sell more diverse gear.

7. Sell bundled products. 'with this shotgun comes a bandolier' - 'you can test this weapon out on the range for $'

8. Stay visible to the right people, market for your target audience.

9. Keep connections to individuals & groups who constantly are in need of firearms. 

10. Try to contact people who just have gotten their license & strike a deal with them for their first gun.

 

Those are the ones I could think of on the top of my head, yet there is dozens of ways to raise your profits. Get creative ? 

The majority of options you gave, I'm afraid they're not valid as they escape our possibilities. We can't sell more gear, we can't get cheaper materials, as they're already aiming for the lowest price. It's impossible to contact people that is always in the need of get weapons, because the minimum time to wait for the next weapon purchase is a month... We're not dealing with a creativity problem.

[Mitch]

20 minutes ago, Seasniff said:

Get creative

Not a creativity issue when we barely make any profits due to the server management inability to focus on roleplay jobs and to help its users drive home a good experience for it's workers, some of your points are very silly and makes me think you don't know how the scripts are run from ammunations, we can't 'get cheaper products' because we're bound by server restrictions,

 

We've tried 3 competitions in the past which resulted in hours of photoshop work and only resulted in a glorious total of 8 people showing up for it. It's killing us, all effort for almost zero reward. This is excluding the hours I've invested in working on the website to make it usable and snappy for people to apply for. We tried but now? We're on our knees basically begging for some help. 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Mitch

[Topinambour]

There might be a few misconceptions here, that I hope I can help dispell along with the posts above:

 

One of those misconceptions seems to be that we're lacking a clientele. This isn't wrong, but there are a few external factors that are important to take into account.

 

• First difficulty: even if we had a massive clientele, our profit would remain quite low because of the component cost. As mentioned above, the script works like that, no communication plan or RP can solve that.
• Second issue is: ammu-nations can only sell 2 guns a month, only to people with a valid firearms license. Those are a bit annoying to get (a bit) and not many people have those for various reasons*. So, the sales will by default be rather limited, again due to factors we have little control over.
• Third problem: unlike other items that are solds by businesses (food, drinks, ...), guns aren't consumable items, they have little need to be renewed. Those who need to renew it sometimes can't (2/month limit, script, we can't RP around it), and the others will only ever buy one.
• Fourth obstacle: unlike cars, guns cannot be modded. A mechanic will make most of their money out of paint jobs, customizations, engine boosts, ... whose gun equivalent we cannot provide. Once the gun is sold, we are unlikely to ever see the customer again.
• Fifth and last challenge: People often change cars and as a consequence, often need modding to fit their new car to their tastes. This isn't the case with guns: their selection is exceedingly limited and you can't re-sell them to someone else, so even if it was possible to mod them, the business would still be considerably below what a mechanic would get. People would mod them once and done, return customers aren't a thing.

 

I hope it sheds a bit of light on the very Ammunation-specific difficulties we're encountering ^^ 

 

* Part of it is that you need a clean record, and even by doing nothing particularly wrong you can still end up with a minor offense there, and be denied FL/CCWs permanently.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Topinambour

[Nervous]

Please make sure you properly word your suggestions next time:

You complain but bring no solution about it except talking about components, your components withdrawal are the same as other businesses. It's a  price/10.

To start seeing good discussions I have to go in the comments, but once again there are no solutions suggested. Keep it in mind for your future suggestions, calling a system "ridiculous" or players "retards trolls" in your description while forgetting about the actual suggestion you're doing is really bad and lock worthy.

 

Ammunation will soon receive weapon components on top of their current sales, which will definitely help boost the sales. However your suggestion is a problem that is lived by many businesses today, working in a business gives less money (or almost none sometimes) for few hours and thus there is no incentive to do so or keep a business open.

 

The discussion should be more about what do we do about this : Do we pay someone automatically for being active in a business using some GOV funds for example ? We can't increase prices, we can't decrease components as it's key to trucking job and they already struggle too, we can't increase the needs without more players (except with components in ammunation case). So where do we go from that?