The Police Department & You

[Biscuit]

1 minute ago, eTaylor said:

First of all, whoa disgusting. Second of all, I think there has been a gross misunderstanding of what has actually been said and what this thread is actually about. If you are coming from a place of conflict, just drop it. There’s no reason to be toxic or condescending. It’s not about a freedom of information request, and it’s not about suing somebody either. You have completely missed the point. 

Am i missing something or do I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about?

 

Where was anyone toxic or condescending in this conversation? I literally just explained my side of the argument as well as what FOIA is?

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, Biscuit said:

Am i missing something or do I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about?

 

Where was anyone toxic or condescending in this conversation? I literally just explained my side of the argument as well as what FOIA is?

Well you are commanding me left and right to do things that I didn’t even ask for, I do know what a freedom of information request is but that’s not what this is about. Nor do you reserve any rights to mandate who and who can’t participate with the conversation, regardless of that person having a solution or not. And unless somebody in the LSPD can confirm or deny this, it is my understanding that they don’t keep crime statistics and they don’t keep any financial statistics about spending to publish because it doesn’t exist.
 

Maintaining those statistics requires a lot of boring data management and reporting that really nobody (presumably) volunteers for. And beyond occasional city government stuff (ie the recent LSSD bid for 13-14m to pay for salaries) police budgets in general don’t function like they do IRL because the infrastructure doesn’t work like that or doesn’t even exist. 
 

However, it would be interesting if they did. Even if it was just filler. Whatever the benefit would be is beyond me however, you’d have a lot of people doing a lot of work just for people to go “cool” once a quarter. It seems like a lot of work for a lot of nothing.

[Biscuit]

TLDR;

- Nobody was toxic in this thread

- The original question was; "Why doesn't the LSPD release it's full budgeting as to where what money goes and how much money they have in total (As it's done IRL?) Including salaries, training, etc." to which the answer was; "Because nobody is holding them accountable"

- You can make a FOIA request to the LSPD to release said information.

- If the LSPD refuses or doesn't respond, you can sue them.

18 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Well you are commanding me left and right to do things that I didn’t even ask for

You inserted yourself into the debate, instead of suggesting any type of solutions, all you did was insert complaints into the debate. I simply, on the other half, told you that you can be part of the solution and sue the LSPD for their inaction on FOIA requests, and you can request statistical data from the LSPD. You claiming that I was "toxic" in any part of this conversation is equivalent to you saying "wow, your suggestion is toxic, i'm not going to bother arguing with you".

 

Since you seem uniformed about what this is all about, let me show you. This is the question that started the debate;

1 hour ago, Vulcar said:

Why doesn't the LSPD release it's full budgeting as to where what money goes and how much money they have in total (As it's done IRL?) Including salaries, training, etc.

My arguments are above as to why the LSPD doesn't do it, it's cause nobody is holding them accountable.

 

If you skimmed through this post, it's entirely understandable why there's confusion right now. But let me just state; I was never toxic, nor was anyone else, all we did was answer the above question. Why. Because nobody wants to do anything. And then I suggested that you should sue the police department if you WANT them to release the data. And never did I say you can't participate in any of the conversations. All I did was argue that people shouldn't complain about something without doing something that can prevent the complaint.

 

Furthermore, to the rest of the argument;

18 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

And unless somebody in the LSPD can confirm or deny this, it is my understanding that they don’t keep crime statistics and they don’t keep any financial statistics about spending to publish because it doesn’t exist.
 

Maintaining those statistics requires a lot of boring data management and reporting that really nobody (presumably) volunteers for. And beyond occasional city government stuff (ie the recent LSSD bid for 13-14m to pay for salaries) police budgets in general don’t function like they do IRL because the infrastructure doesn’t work like that or doesn’t even exist. 
 

However, it would be interesting if they did. Even if it was just filler. Whatever the benefit would be is beyond me however, you’d have a lot of people doing a lot of work just for people to go “cool” once a quarter. It seems like a lot of work for a lot of nothing.

Currently, the LSPD has a pending FOIA request that was never answered, reference this topic;

https://lspd.gta.world/viewtopic.php?f=1259&t=51149

 

The person that made that topic can realistically sue the LSPD because they never answered their FOIA request. The law states that any and all information regarding bugets, crimes and the current record of police officers can be publicly released, as well as CCW records, application statuses, all of that. It's not a matter of "it doesn't exist", it's law. Now if this law would exist in the GTA:W realm is a complete other argument that can never be proven because nobody is suing the LSPD for their violation of FOIA.

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Biscuit

[Ryoichi]

28 minutes ago, Saccs said:

I think people should understand that we're still a game. Yes, it's roleplay, but to what extent are we bringing realism into it. To say you want to sue a department because they don't hold statistics of shootings from XYZ year is a bit of a stretch for me. Who wants to collect this data? Not me. You? It's convenient to say 'sue X because they don't hold records of how many people were killed by officer involved shootings since 2018.' Recording statistics like this was never a thing I've seen on previous servers. People need to understand that we're here to roleplay and not drown ourselves in endless amounts of paperwork. Even though I've left the LSPD, I just don't find it feasible or reasonable to be attempting to sue the LSPD for such a thing. Yes, it's IC, but it's a game. It's a game.

 

This is really a bad way of seeing things. Roleplay does not improve based on the mentality of "Its just a game". 
We have a capable court system and government system. With your mentality these factions would never see the light of day. 

 

Realism is what drives roleplay servers and it is what most of us are yearning for when we roleplay, crime stats are the life line of any police department. 

 

 

 

[moulton]

I'd like to see more "beat cops"

[Shiro]

25 minutes ago, Ryoichi said:

 

This is really a bad way of seeing things. Roleplay does not improve based on the mentality of "Its just a game". 
We have a capable court system and government system. With your mentality these factions would never see the light of day. 

 

Realism is what drives roleplay servers and it is what most of us are yearning for when we roleplay, crime stats are the life line of any police department. 

 

 

 

It's always just a game when it's in the pd's favor from what I've seen (just my experience don't attack me 🙂)

[Jeff_]

Okay, this thread gets out of hand way too fast, jesus christ.

 

The statistics for one are really hard to do, keeping constant track of them, constantly updating them, making a graph/spreadsheet about it, hell no does anyone want to do that. Not to mention people have IRL jobs and responsibilites as well if you're going to take your free time out to make those instead of us be my guest. People make these things IRL because they have to not because they want to, and I honestly doubt anyone's going to force someone to "have to" make a spreadsheet whole list of statistics to be released to the public.

 

For second you guys keep going back and forth on this topic, with really pointless information, take it to your PM's/DM's and resolve it there, not a topic for people to bicker back and forth.

 

And there is a limit of making things "realistic", if we did everything the LAPD does we might as well pronounce ourselves a real Police Department and start getting wages for it. 

[Zayyy]

33 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

You need to calm down.

I think you need some time off from internet today, seriously mate.
You are telling her to calm down but it seems like you are the one who really needs to calm down. She's not being toxic at all. You are pulling different meanings from her replies for no reason. 

 

She only stated valid points in her each post, you don't have to target people if you disagree with their points. 

Spoiler

 

[eTaylor]

37 minutes ago, Zayyy said:

I think you need some time off from internet today, seriously mate.
You are telling her to calm down but it seems like you are the one who really needs to calm down. She's not being toxic at all. You are pulling different meanings from her replies for no reason. 

 

She only stated valid points in her each post, you don't have to target people if you disagree with their points. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/15947-the-police-department-you/page/98/?tab=comments#comment-380542

 

[knppel]

All I said was that to effectively reduce crime we'd need a more effective police that adapts to ingame realities rather than to find realistic reasons to let people go (not that I'd not profit from the later same as anybody.

At least if we say that's all ic matters.

One that gets much more money for bigger guns and so on, to recruit more officers to show presence and engage in crime prevention, not just response, you know, what a police does irl too... did I already mention cherry picking examples from reality works both way?

 

Having this said, the most pressing matters are obviously still the police soccer club and a police orchestra

And do we have a new Chief yet?