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The Police Department & You


Big_Smokes

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2 hours ago, Sebz said:

If you look into the statistics IRL they don't really 'work' either. But suppressing criminal activity even a little bit by increasing our patrols in gang areas is the goal. If we have cars on the block day in and day out (within reason, of course people gotta go to sleep at some point) you're not going to be as inclined to commit crime. Worst case scenario you just move the crime somewhere else, at which point we've freed a location (In your case JT projects) from criminal activity. Realistically there are civilians living in those projects who are not involved and want no involvement in the criminal activity going on there. Of course this opens up the problem of the activity in another area, but its what keeps us mutually busy, it is what it is.

In real life this is a very controversial subject matter, by adding additional law enforcement officers to an area you're insinuating that there is potential reasoning's for this, this in turn in the real world can lead to people choosing not to financially invest into the area. The LAPD/NYPD are known for doing such things with their alignment with their criminology views such as the broken windows theory founded by Wilson and Kelling. I'm a fond admirer of Bratton and his leadership and like the broken windows theory but when not executed correctly under careful and effective oversight this can lead to furthering of police corruption and can further damage the areas reputation further.

 

For GTA:W I think such things could be done, it'd also be interested to see a more engaging Media Relations Unit/Public Affairs team on the ground hosting more engaging community meetings, events and outreach schemes. Maybe even supporting the development of neighborhood watch teams or a crime stoppers charity. The city could also get involved and work in coordination with law enforcement agencies and try to 'redevelop' the area IC'ly where possible.

 

This community is an open book and I feel the possibilities are endless when it comes to roleplay it's just a matter of getting the idea out there and executed correctly. 

 

(I just noticed how ironic my comment on Bratton was when I seen I have him as my avatar! 😂)

Edited by Wang
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Personally the only things that bothers me when witnessing police work is the conduct of police chases. Whenever I see one going on, it feels like for the police officers it turns into a cops & robbers server. They drive just as recklessly as the criminal that's evading with no awareness to the surroundings or caution whatsoever. I'm sure there are many officers who drive realistically during chases, but I still have witnessed a lot of the scenes mentioned above.

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3 hours ago, Sebz said:

If you look into the statistics IRL they don't really 'work' either. But suppressing criminal activity even a little bit by increasing our patrols in gang areas is the goal. If we have cars on the block day in and day out (within reason, of course people gotta go to sleep at some point) you're not going to be as inclined to commit crime. Worst case scenario you just move the crime somewhere else, at which point we've freed a location (In your case JT projects) from criminal activity. Realistically there are civilians living in those projects who are not involved and want no involvement in the criminal activity going on there. Of course this opens up the problem of the activity in another area, but its what keeps us mutually busy, it is what it is.

Yeah that's what I mean, injunctions are very controversial and a lot of times people end up getting arrested that shouldn't be. Many times, it fucks over the community instead of the actual gang residing in the area. I looked up a lot of information about this when the injunction was imposed to see how to go about it and really, nothing changes. All that changes is that everyone moves a little more carefully and keeps their head down. My character during this injunction has ended up making more money than he's made in his entire life due to this. 

 

1 hour ago, Pathway said:

ingame? Ofc they work. Gang injunctions caused two fac shutdowns (dead end harpies and tortilla flats) , and decreased activity for a current fact (varrio rancho). Idk how u can claim they dont work at all.

I can't speak for Harpies or Tortilla Flats as I'm not directly involved with them or know how it went down. However I can speak for my faction and tell you you're wrong when you say there's reduced activity considering we've had one of our most active months ever (hitting 300 pages in fact). If you're talking about criminal activity? That's not really been reduced either, it's just been more intelligently done by the gang which is a nice developmental side effect of this injunction. Of course you're not going to see people posted up in groups around the area like you used to, no one feels like spending 4 days in jail for just hanging out. There's been consistently 15+ factions members online almost every single day, excluding holidays. 

 

Gangs in Los Angeles are under injunction for years and they even overlap with others. Nothing changes, the only reason they're "semi" effective on this server is that they're enforced heavily and like I said, no one wants to spend 4 days just for hanging out with their friends. They're not enforced IRL to the level they are enforced on the server. However, crime IRL is not to the same level as it is on this server. It's an understandable response.

Edited by Naeno
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1 hour ago, Griz said:

I must say, there are a handful of individuals who are all about enforcing gang injunctions. I have assisted with the arrest of a few people violating said injunctions over the last week or so. I don't think it has an immediate effect, no, but the injunction being put into place has started to slow down the insane amount of crime happening in the areas of which the injunction covers. Furthermore, if these arrests continue to happen, it slowly breaks down individuals' will to continue violating the injunction and getting arrested time after time. So, I think they're working, but it takes time and diligence. 

 

As someone who has witnessed every gang injunction deployed on GTA;W from a first-hand perspective I can reassure you that they really choke RP. They don't serve their intended purpose, and in stead of creating avenues for productive and good roleplay - they just provide a legal avenue for PD to marginalise a group of people (Which from an IC perspective does make sense if the injunction is justified) but from an OOC perspective, it chokes factions.

 

Harpys 13, CVTF13 and SSR13 are all Sureno gangs who have had gang injunctions. TF was very close to archiving after their first month, Harpys did archive during it, and SSR13 is just adapting and varying the way they operate and RP to counter the effects of the injunction. The only thing these injunctions fundamentally achieve is that they demotivate people to continue RPing on those characters which thus leads to this 'slow down' on the crime rate.

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57 minutes ago, MartosG said:

Personally the only things that bothers me when witnessing police work is the conduct of police chases. Whenever I see one going on, it feels like for the police officers it turns into a cops & robbers server. They drive just as recklessly as the criminal that's evading with no awareness to the surroundings or caution whatsoever. I'm sure there are many officers who drive realistically during chases, but I still have witnessed a lot of the scenes mentioned above.

 

I've mostly RPed in South Central LS and off the bat I can tell you that the elevated police presence in those areas and the incredibly rapid response is what attributes to players deploying strategies to get an advantange. I'm not encouraging or condoning it, I'm explaining the rationale behind it. You find players using these bikes, and other vehicles that will really give them an advantage because 9/10 in GTA;W any murder results into a chase. Whereas, in real life that's not as prevalent as it is in GTA;W.

 

I get it, there's a high crime rate in those areas so more PD needs to be there? But that's contributing to the whole cops and robbers problem.

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The injunction is kinda only good for getting into petty stuff with the police and just roleplaying with them, but when the end result is a week or month jail then I’m kinda over it quick. It really just kills a lot of roleplay because where it was in abundance all of a sudden you have isolated pockets here and there hiding indoors and it takes effort to drag people out to do stuff. 

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15 minutes ago, Vulcar said:

 

As someone who has witnessed every gang injunction deployed on GTA;W from a first-hand perspective I can reassure you that they really choke RP. They don't serve their intended purpose, and in stead of creating avenues for productive and good roleplay - they just provide a legal avenue for PD to marginalise a group of people (Which from an IC perspective does make sense if the injunction is justified) but from an OOC perspective, it chokes factions.

 

Harpys 13, CVTF13 and SSR13 are all Sureno gangs who have had gang injunctions. TF was very close to archiving after their first month, Harpys did archive during it, and SSR13 is just adapting and varying the way they operate and RP to counter the effects of the injunction. The only thing these injunctions fundamentally achieve is that they demotivate people to continue RPing on those characters which thus leads to this 'slow down' on the crime rate.

As someone who’s also witnessed one of the gang injunctions as a faction member(CVTF13), I do agree that the injunctions are regulated rather harshly on the server. I understand it’s a response to the aggression shown by the gang. However, this really does demotivate people from logging in. I understand the purpose of gang injunctions from an IC point of view, and I believe we should have more of them as a response to gangs’ actions. I just believe they have to be regulated a little more loosely than they currently are. At the end of the day, we are all here to roleplay and have fun. Actions have consequences, I get that. But the consequence shouldn’t be getting locked up for hours because you’re simply hanging out even if the action that led to the injunction had nothing to do with you.

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If you want to talk about being demotivated from logging in, I pose to you the other side of the argument: Police Officers getting shot and killed by known gang members merely for a small traffic violation, like expired insurance. The injunctions are imposed not because the police department "wants to eliminate any and all crime", but mostly to stop crime from reaching all-time high's, mostly for the types of crimes being committed, which led the organization into their own injunction. That's why injunctions are imposed. They are few and far in between in the grand scheme of things. Gang activity is one thing, and the crimes that go along with it are another. But, when it reaches a certain point, there are no other means (other than illegal FM stepping in) to thwart the insane rise in crime. Not only to the public or other gangs, but to the police department as well. If you don't want the police department to get involved so rapidly, then stop killing police officers for the sake of getting away from a measly ticket. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, but it's a common event and that's when the hammer starts to hit. That, so long as the status quo remains the same, will never change. 

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3 hours ago, Griz said:

If you want to talk about being demotivated from logging in, I pose to you the other side of the argument: Police Officers getting shot and killed by known gang members merely for a small traffic violation, like expired insurance. The injunctions are imposed not because the police department "wants to eliminate any and all crime", but mostly to stop crime from reaching all-time high's, mostly for the types of crimes being committed, which led the organization into their own injunction. That's why injunctions are imposed. They are few and far in between in the grand scheme of things. Gang activity is one thing, and the crimes that go along with it are another. But, when it reaches a certain point, there are no other means (other than illegal FM stepping in) to thwart the insane rise in crime. Not only to the public or other gangs, but to the police department as well. If you don't want the police department to get involved so rapidly, then stop killing police officers for the sake of getting away from a measly ticket. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, but it's a common event and that's when the hammer starts to hit. That, so long as the status quo remains the same, will never change. 

You guys also refuse to take down factions because it's "not fun" or "ruins the RP for the faction", when in reality us illegal RPers want to be investigated. Why don't you take those investigations of police officer murders and use that to take down a faction?

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