The Police Department & You

[Cypher]

1 hour ago, Rozi said:

I have never personally seen someone trying to report extortion, be it in person or via 911/email. There are 100% instances when it was reported but none that I can come up with. There is nothing that prevents PD from investigating extortion or making it low priority or a lower priority than anything else, it's just that it doesn't come up, people rarely report extortion.

 

1 hour ago, Procaine said:

Likewise, I haven't seen extortion roleplayed at all in the server. I'd be more than happy to roleplay extortion and complete a wholesome report and investigation if it was brought to light.

 

1 hour ago, Large Hazard said:

Extortion would be difficult to prove if it wasn't ongoing and long term. That is, the person doing it would have to keep it up for a long time so that the victim had time to report it and the authorities had time to collect evidence of it occurring. If it only occurred once or twice it wouldn't be easy to prove it actually happened, considering the case would be based solely on the word of the victim.

 

Extortion cases in real life are juicy investigative targets but they're usually part of long investigations (such as RICO cases) for this reason.

If this is the case and it is indeed rarely reported IC’ly, I wonder if it’s an OOC fear on part of the players who own the business of potentially losing their property or character due to progressing circumstances surrounding the extortion attempt. I’d be curious to know the time frame faction management places on a CK attempt for such situations. If these investigations take time (several weeks, if not more), how long can the business owner REALLY hold out before the extortion crew ultimately ends up burning their business down multiple times and eventually asking for a CK? If they find out the owner is cooperating with the police or they keep saying no to the extortion over multiple attempts, how long could they possibly hold out for something to come to fruition via police investigation?
 

It seems it may very well be an OOC issue at that point. Business owners simply don’t report it and deal with the weekly tax because OOC’ly it’s just too much risk and/or hassle to try and fight the extortion system. I know I’m not so attached to my characters but at the same time I wouldn’t want to have spent hours upon hours, weeks or months developing a character to open a business all to lose it a few weeks later due to a botched extortion scenario. That seems awfully one-sided. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Cypher

[Sangras]

9 hours ago, Cypher said:

I have a genuine question and please don't take this as a hostility towards PD or bashing. I really want to know, for my own sanity and for the sake of the current, multiple threads going on about the issue I would love to hear from the source about this current ongoing topic and very heated topic at that.

 

What's the deal with extortion? Why aren't more cases of extortion brought to justice? Is it because of the long-form investigations that ultimately end with someone getting a short sentence for being caught and then back out on the street days later? It it the lack of Detectives or Investigators to look into these claims? Personnel issues to complete the investigations? Do people (business owners) genuinely not call and report extortion? Is it an OOC fear of shutting down factions?

 

I've seen discussions from multiple prominent illegal RP'ers lately practically advocating for more police interaction with this specific issue. We have surveillance tools now that could be used to catch audio/video of these extortion situations. We live in an age of technology. CCTV cameras, wires, bugs, trackers, these are things that we have at our disposal on this server. This next part is no reflection on PD because it requires DOJ involvement, but just to make my point, there have been a total of 3 judicial cases that even mention the word/charge of extortion. 3. With all that goes on in this server, only 3 cases? I would venture to bet that at least half the businesses on this server have been or are currently being extorted in one way or another. I could be wrong, but from internal discussions, it seems quite prevalent.

 

Are there internal OOC reasons within the PD faction impeding IC avenues for extortion enforcement? If so, how can it be fixed by management? What rules need to be changed? I have had nothing but good interactions with PD and I applaud for whoever is at the top for leading it in the right direction. I just want to hear a logical reason as to why this particular issue seems neglected so much. Extortion RP can be a lot of fun, when its done right. I think some real and consistent pressure from the PD/DOJ factions could help alleviate the issue as well. I have heard one, great example of pressure being applied IC'ly on the Conti Crime Family and @UTOPIA even mentioned it was insane and created some superb RP within the faction. These are things that should be done on a wide scale. At the end of the day, I am simply a concerned citizen that sees this is a real problem on the server and I just want to know what can be done about it (if anything) and understand why nothing has been done about it already (except for the example from the Conti Crime Family) on an IC level. Where does the issue lie? Pretty please help me to understand and many others who share similar concerns (as evidenced by a 20+ page thread on extortion RP). Thank you!

 

Hey there, I have been recently turning my eyes torwards this sort of crime and I can tell you right now that the punishment for extortion simply isn't enough to actually put a stop to it. You don't get any criminal points to your character's record and once you get out, you can just keep doing it again, so the best chance is usually building up a case file and charging the people with Racketeering.

[Trupiano]

2 hours ago, LucasEd15 said:

Hey there, I have been recently turning my eyes torwards this sort of crime and I can tell you right now that the punishment for extortion simply isn't enough to actually put a stop to it. You don't get any criminal points to your character's record and once you get out, you can just keep doing it again, so the best chance is usually building up a case file and charging the people with Racketeering.

This why supporting suggestions like this are so important.

 

 

[Garras Up]

11 hours ago, Cypher said:

If this is the case and it is indeed rarely reported IC’ly, I wonder if it’s an OOC fear on part of the players who own the business of potentially losing their property or character due to progressing circumstances surrounding the extortion attempt. I’d be curious to know the time frame faction management places on a CK attempt for such situations. If these investigations take time (several weeks, if not more), how long can the business owner REALLY hold out before the extortion crew ultimately ends up burning their business down multiple times and eventually asking for a CK? If they find out the owner is cooperating with the police or they keep saying no to the extortion over multiple attempts, how long could they possibly hold out for something to come to fruition via police investigation?
 

It seems it may very well be an OOC issue at that point. Business owners simply don’t report it and deal with the weekly tax because OOC’ly it’s just too much risk and/or hassle to try and fight the extortion system. I know I’m not so attached to my characters but at the same time I wouldn’t want to have spent hours upon hours, weeks or months developing a character to open a business all to lose it a few weeks later due to a botched extortion scenario. That seems awfully one-sided. 

See the thing is they shouldn't be fearful OOCly, they should be fearful ICly. Yes, you run the risk of being CKed if you start snitching on an organization, but there's moves people's characters can make to avoid ending up dead, just like in real life. It seems that many of the people saying that they were reporting extortion IC and were CKed may have been lying, based on what I'm seeing here from members of the LSPD.

 

To sorta chime in on your question, realistically the business can hold out a long time while staying off of the organization's radar, but that'd likely involve compromises such as shit like paying the extorters with the aim of having a detective see what happens. If the detectives actually see what's going on, they'd be able to handle their investigation quicker.

 

If the detectives see nothing because it's not reported for OOC reasons (Which imo, is borderline mixing) I don't think it should be put on the LSPD as if they're even aware of what's going on. The cops IRL don't just magically know that this and that business is being extorted by gangs/mafia dudes. They need to be told for them to be able to do anything about it.

 

For PD though, I think law enforcement should start cracking down on those types of crimes when it gets reported, especially when they're done for the benefit of a criminal org or a street gang, cause that's racketeering and not regular extortion, because generally people get caught up in RICO stings for shit like that, which usually involves federal charges. 

 

I know the LSPD doesn't wanna start shutting factions down, but they should still impact them in some way on an IC level, especially when they start getting bloodthirsty, too greedy with extortions or simply start getting out of control

[Kenshi]

11 hours ago, Garras Up said:

For PD though, I think law enforcement should start cracking down on those types of crimes when it gets reported, especially when they're done for the benefit of a criminal org or a street gang, cause that's racketeering and not regular extortion, because generally people get caught up in RICO stings for shit like that, which usually involves federal charges. 

 

I know the LSPD doesn't wanna start shutting factions down, but they should still impact them in some way on an IC level, especially when they start getting bloodthirsty, too greedy with extortions or simply start getting out of control

Gang injunctions are a thing. When a certain group steps out of line, be it cause of ongoing, increasingly violent moves made, or a flashpoint of intolerable behavior (I.E. Gunning down cops in broad daylight). Courts will order an injunction. And with a very effective detective bureau, that usually simmers people back down to acceptable levels.

So you see, a system is already in place for gang-related issues.  

[Cypher]

43 minutes ago, Kenshi Haroku said:

Gang injunctions are a thing. When a certain group steps out of line, be it cause of ongoing, increasingly violent moves made, or a flashpoint of intolerable behavior (I.E. Gunning down cops in broad daylight). Courts will order an injunction. And with a very effective detective bureau, that usually simmers people back down to acceptable levels.

So you see, a system is already in place for gang-related issues.  

What about extortion? I keep seeing people say they’d love to see these calls in-game, but then at the same time a lot others complain about the long-form, boring role play involved. Extortion is pretty much a certainty for a legal business owner and that shouldn’t be the case. Most of the time it’s some group who thinks “you’re on our turf, pay or die” type extortion is okay. I can understand an investigation can take weeks or more, but all efforts go to the criminal going to jail for 7 days and spending all their time on another character while it ticks down. I’m sure that’s demotivating and this has led to an issue where it simply doesn’t get handled except for the one-off occasion. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Cypher

[Naeno]

4 hours ago, Kenshi Haroku said:

Gang injunctions are a thing. When a certain group steps out of line, be it cause of ongoing, increasingly violent moves made, or a flashpoint of intolerable behavior (I.E. Gunning down cops in broad daylight). Courts will order an injunction. And with a very effective detective bureau, that usually simmers people back down to acceptable levels.

So you see, a system is already in place for gang-related issues.  

I don’t think gang injunctions work. At least how they’re being done currently, they don’t do anything. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Naeno

[Sebz]

32 minutes ago, Naeno said:

I don’t think gang injunctions work. At least how they’re being done correctly, they don’t do anything. 

If you look into the statistics IRL they don't really 'work' either. But suppressing criminal activity even a little bit by increasing our patrols in gang areas is the goal. If we have cars on the block day in and day out (within reason, of course people gotta go to sleep at some point) you're not going to be as inclined to commit crime. Worst case scenario you just move the crime somewhere else, at which point we've freed a location (In your case JT projects) from criminal activity. Realistically there are civilians living in those projects who are not involved and want no involvement in the criminal activity going on there. Of course this opens up the problem of the activity in another area, but its what keeps us mutually busy, it is what it is.

[Pathway]

1 hour ago, Naeno said:

I don’t think gang injunctions work. At least how they’re being done correctly, they don’t do anything. 

ingame? Ofc they work. Gang injunctions caused two fac shutdowns (dead end harpies and tortilla flats) , and decreased activity for a current fact (varrio rancho). Idk how u can claim they dont work at all.

[Griz]

I must say, there are a handful of individuals who are all about enforcing gang injunctions. I have assisted with the arrest of a few people violating said injunctions over the last week or so. I don't think it has an immediate effect, no, but the injunction being put into place has started to slow down the insane amount of crime happening in the areas of which the injunction covers. Furthermore, if these arrests continue to happen, it slowly breaks down individuals' will to continue violating the injunction and getting arrested time after time. So, I think they're working, but it takes time and diligence. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Griz