The Police Department & You

[Gargam3i]

As an owner of an illegal faction, previous high command of LSPD on LS-RP and previous faction management on LS-RP the main issue that I see in regards to CK and the reason why so many illegal roleplayers aren't comfortable with the way CK's applies to LEO factions is because of how fast and aggressive the LEO factions are with reporting illegal roleplayers for a force CK. 
1 minute after an illegal roleplayer has been gunned down the report is submitted where they ask for a character to be CK'd, I've witnessed this first hand. 

I was surrounded by cops (didn't see all the cops ICly only the ones in front of me) I took off in my car and got shot in the head from behind with an automatic rifle, (note that I had not tried to ram or shoot at any of the present officers) I roleplayed dying shortly after the initial rush had settled as I noticed that the bullet hit my head. The first admin on the scene said that it would be a PK but LSPD pleaded and pleaded, even asked for a higher ranked admin to overturn the decision in which I was given a choice to either re-roleplay the scenario or take a force CK. 

So I had to settle with re-roleplaying a scenario and getting the short end of the stick solely based on LSPD's mistake since admins sided with them as usual?
 

Why are the LEO factions so god damn aggressive with pushing for CK's? I don't get it. When the faction that is the most aggressive with pursuing CK's is the same faction that takes the least punishment from a CK themselves, that's when you get hatred aimed towards said faction. 
 

Go around and ask all of the illegal roleplayers why they don't:

• Report LEO's to admins
• Report LEO's to quality management
• Report LEO's internally for poor quality roleplay

I'm almost certain that the vast majority would say that it's not worth it because the Staff team will side with them, because quality management will side with them and because the internal report (IA) will side with their sworn in brothers. 

It's gotten to the point where most roleplayers won't even bother reporting LEO's no matter how clear the evidence is, and the fact that nothing is done about this is appalling, it's a snowball that has been rolling for a while and is only growing in size.

 

If I were one of the good apples within these LEO factions I would push for this exactly as much as the illegal roleplayers because they're putting you in a bad light as well.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Gargam3i

[nateX]

41 minutes ago, Gargam3i said:

I was surrounded by cops (didn't see all the cops ICly only the ones in front of me) I took off in my car and got shot in the head from behind with an automatic rifle, (note that I had not tried to ram or shoot at any of the present officers) I roleplayed dying shortly after the initial rush had settled as I noticed that the bullet hit my head. The first admin on the scene said that it would be a PK but LSPD pleaded and pleaded, even asked for a higher ranked admin to overturn the decision in which I was given a choice to either re-roleplay the scenario or take a force CK. 

So I had to settle with re-roleplaying a scenario and getting the short end of the stick solely based on LSPD's mistake since admins sided with them as usual?
 

Ah yes, very familiar situation. Matter of fact, I was the handler of that. Now you have to remember that I had just become trial admin and that was a report I accidentally took because I missread the report itself. I was unsure on how to handle the report and while waiting for a higher up to respond took some of my own intiative. What I didn't notice at the time was that your character was not even injured, which was the main issue. If you would have at least been injured, a PK would have been just fine. 

 

It wasn't PD's fault in the slightest, and I take full responsibility for that situation.

Sorry for the off-topic post, just wanted to clear something out of the way before people take their pitchforks out.

[Gargam3i]

17 minutes ago, nateX said:

Ah yes, very familiar situation. Matter of fact, I was the handler of that. Now you have to remember that I had just become trial admin and that was a report I accidentally took because I missread the report itself. I was unsure on how to handle the report and while waiting for a higher up to respond took some of my own intiative. What I didn't notice at the time was that your character was not even injured, which was the main issue. If you would have at least been injured, a PK would have been just fine. 

 

It wasn't PD's fault in the slightest, and I take full responsibility for that situation.

Sorry for the off-topic post, just wanted to clear something out of the way before people take their pitchforks out.

Can you explain to me how I roleplay surviving an assault rifle shot to the head? Because the higher admin agreed with me on not RPing surviving it, hence why the situation was re-roleplayed.

 

I'll add to this to even say that it doesn't even matter, it's the fact how hard LSPD was pushing for a CK just for the sake of CKing that is the main point, and is appauling.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Gargam3i
added to previous comment

[nateX]

12 minutes ago, Gargam3i said:

Can you explain to me how I roleplay surviving an assault rifle shot to the head? Because the higher admin agreed with me on not RPing surviving it, hence why the situation was re-roleplayed.

 

I'll add to this to even say that it doesn't even matter, it's the fact how hard LSPD was pushing for a CK just for the sake of CKing that is the main point, and is appauling.

The higher up was the one that instructed me, so you're wrong there. It's there to prevent people from dying out of situations to avoid arrest. PD can't force a CK on a person, they have to go through the same application stage as anyone else. And that's a direct quote from the same higher up.

Let's keep the thread clean of this. You can message me on Discord if you want to continue this discussion.

[onefortyseven]

Gargam3l did bring up a valid point though. As a cop roleplayer, I personally see no need to have all the criminals that decide to reach for a weapon or attempt to shoot their way out of a situation CK'd. It's the person on the other side of the screen enjoying playing as that character as much as you do enjoy playing as your cop character, let them have fun - there's no need to ask for them to be force CK'd just because they shot at a cop. One thing I started asking myself when dealing with such situations. Do I win anything by having them force CK'd, and is there an actual good reason for me to request a forced CK for them. Nine times out of ten, the answer is no and if I carried on with the report to try to get them CK'd, I'd just looking like a massive asshole in their eyes, possibly their entire faction's eyes, and to be honest, someone admins', too. It goes both ways, if I was a criminal roleplay I wouldn't really care if the cop that I just shot CK's and if they do are they allowed to stay in the faction at their old rank, not my problem.

 

If they broke a rule while trying to shoot their way out, then that's a different story and you can just record it and post a report on the forums if you want, then the admin will decide should they be ajailed, banned, warned or whatever.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Brian

[DLimit]

25 minutes ago, Brian said:

Gargam3l did bring up a valid point though. As a cop roleplayer, I personally see no need to have all the criminals that decide to reach for a weapon or attempt to shoot their way out of a situation CK'd. It's the person on the other side of the screen enjoying playing as that character as much as you do enjoy playing as your cop character, let them have fun - there's no need to ask for them to be force CK'd just because they shot at a cop. One thing I started asking myself when dealing with such situations. Do I win anything by having them force CK'd, and is there an actual good reason for me to request a forced CK for them. Nine times out of ten, the answer is no and if I carried on with the report to try to get them CK'd, I'd just looking like a massive asshole in their eyes, possibly their entire faction's eyes, and to be honest, someone admins', too. It goes both ways, if I was a criminal roleplay I wouldn't really care if the cop that I just shot CK's and if they do are they allowed to stay in the faction at their old rank, not my problem.

 

If they broke a rule while trying to shoot their way out, then that's a different story and you can just record it and post a report on the forums if you want, then the admin will decide should they be ajailed, banned, warned or whatever.

 

It's classified as non-fear R.P... it causes people to actually fear for their lives rather than to risk their lives over something as petty as losing a gun, some narcotics, or a phone. It applies to both legal and illegal roleplayers, not just players that decided that it's an ethical idea to engage in a one-man shoot-out with eight other cops.

Only a fool would do a shoot-out with police as only 1-2 people. I'd understand a whole gang shooting at some officers. But, for 1-2 people to shoot at eight officers? Very stupid move.

Regardless of how bad any character is, 99% of the time, they should value their life. Risking undergoing death OR life-imprisonment over some thing as petty as a felony isn't worth it, especially when the odds are already against you.

Edited October 9, 2020 by DLimit

[Beholder]

I won't lie, I'm not gonna bother reading 78 pages so I'm sorry if this was posted before. 

I think the biggest way to improve PD is accountability. I think PD can roleplay great when they want to, and have very interesting  characters and develop good relationships with criminals To be clear, this isn't just about CK's. This is more about a cop making a bad decisions and it being swept under the rug as "IC Issue." To an extent, there are IC issues that cops should have, like police brutality and such. However, I think the core of the issue of accountability is a lack of administrative punishment. Right now, a lot of the issues that occur can be written off as an "IC" issue. If a cop shoots a gang member that isn't really doing anything wrong aside from some basic roasting, it can be written off as an IC issue. As a result, the cop gets their IC punishment, and sometimes they get a slap on the wrist, or just a few days off, but that gang member was still killed for an incredibly poor reason that would get any non-LEO jailed. This would be written off as DM for anybody except LEO, especially because it treads on another player's roleplay, and can ruin their experience on the server. Now, granted, this example I've given isn't a super common event, but an example of what's wrong. Cops need to be held to a higher standard, as people who interact with them will set their expectations and roleplay quality accordingly.  

 

TL;DR Cops need to be handed administrative punishments more often based on wrongdoing and not thrown into "IC ISSUE" territory every time a player is killed for a poor reason.

[Trupiano]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

Gargam3l did bring up a valid point though. As a cop roleplayer, I personally see no need to have all the criminals that decide to reach for a weapon or attempt to shoot their way out of a situation CK'd. It's the person on the other side of the screen enjoying playing as that character as much as you do enjoy playing as your cop character, let them have fun - there's no need to ask for them to be force CK'd just because they shot at a cop. One thing I started asking myself when dealing with such situations. Do I win anything by having them force CK'd, and is there an actual good reason for me to request a forced CK for them. Nine times out of ten, the answer is no and if I carried on with the report to try to get them CK'd, I'd just looking like a massive asshole in their eyes, possibly their entire faction's eyes, and to be honest, someone admins', too. It goes both ways, if I was a criminal roleplay I wouldn't really care if the cop that I just shot CK's and if they do are they allowed to stay in the faction at their old rank, not my problem.

 

If they broke a rule while trying to shoot their way out, then that's a different story and you can just record it and post a report on the forums if you want, then the admin will decide should they be ajailed, banned, warned or whatever.

 

I'm going to be a little blunt but from audio recordings I've heard of both LEO and regular legal players talking about myself and many other illegal players? There are more then a few individuals who are unable to separate their IC hatred of criminal characters from their OOC feelings about the player who control them. They view us as a nuisance that the server would be better without and take whatever chance they can to kill, CK, or report us.

 

Now this is far from the majority of PD or Legal players, but it only takes a few active bad apples to give the whole faction a bad reputation, which is what I assume is happening now.

 

Criminal RP and Law enforcement RP are yin and yang. To be a quality RPer, I think you not only have to understand your own role but your adversaries role on the server. You have to understand that the RP that these criminal factions create are what drives LEO RP forward. Criminal RPers have to understand that the RP that LEO's create is what raises the stakes and makes things fun and interesting for us. I'm a firm believer that there needs to be a part of academy that teaches this because I definitely feel like it's the LEO side of the server that is dropping the ball on this.

[onefortyseven]

"  To be a quality RPer, I think you not only have to understand your own role but your adversaries role on the server. You have to understand that the RP that these criminal factions create are what drives LEO RP forward. Criminal RPers have to understand that the RP that LEO's create is what raises the stakes and makes things fun and interesting for us. " - This, literally, this.

 

I'm personally not in a position where I could get rid of the 'bad apples', only way I can make the faction look better is by providing realistic cop roleplay to the community and being fair and keeping in mind that I'm interacting with actual people who enjoy roleplay as much as I do when dealing with illegal roleplayers. Also, I couldn't agree more with what you said — with no cops, illegal RP would be boring, with no illegal players, LEO RP would be boring. We need you (illegal players) to make it interesting for us, and you need us (law enforcement roleplayers) to make it more interesting, simple as that. 

 

If someone still doesn't get it; imagine roleplaying a cop with no criminals on the server, or imagine roleplaying a criminal that doesn't have to fear any repercussions. It wouldn't be fun, would it? In short, as Henning said, cop RP without criminals would suck ass, so would criminal RP without cops, there's bad apples on both sides, and there will always be, however, thinking that the server would be better off with either side removed is honestly just wild. 

 

Edit: Also, response to @DLimit as I've completely overlooked your reply. Yes - it's nonRP, I'm not advocating for players to stop reporting rule break(er)s. What I'm advocating for is for all the players, regardless of their faction to stop treating others as their actual enemies just because they RP on the other side of the law. Maybe the example I used was poor, however my point still stands - regardless if you're a criminal player or a cop player, stop trying to get your in-character adversaries CK'd, punished or in other way fucked over just because they by chance happen to enjoy playing a character that's on the 'other side'. They're not your OOC enemies.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Brian

[negs]

All my interactions with the LSPD have been great. Keep up the good work. Though I recommend more community policing roleplay. Events for people to initiate roleplay such as check points and the likes.