Undoing the "Good Cause" Clause

[Jeroen]

12 hours ago, Wolfess said:

Please, for the love of God, spent time outside the box. CCW is required for high end security, some management positions and oddly, once, garage company last year. (Always found that one the most strange?).

Okay, you're telling me to think outside of the box. Which privileges does a CCW grant a high-end security guard that a GC doesn't grant already?

12 hours ago, Wolfess said:

It's also required for being in the owner position of a gunstore. Making this a job requirement alone. - For a gunstore.

If you're employed at a gun store, you're allowed to possess a firearm even without a PF license according to the SHAFT Act.

12 hours ago, Wolfess said:

You require both PF/CCW according to PM. You can sod off and argue your case with them. I'm tired saying this repeatedly.

In that case PM is misinterpreting what a CCW is meant for, and you should complain to them instead.

12 hours ago, SKYLINE said:

• CCW license's test being written terribly, no offense to whoever wrote it.

The CCW exam has recently been rewritten, I implore you to try it out.

12 hours ago, SKYLINE said:

• And finally (and most importantly) 99% of applicable situations where we'd have even used them were likely to turn into OOC headaches.

 

I feel sorry that the whole process might feel like an inconvenience to you.

If there's any part of the law that creates the headache, I implore you to lobby for a change with SAGOV.

If there's any part of any Server Management mandated rules that creates the headache, I implore you to lobby for a change with server management.

If there's anything else, contact FLD by making a ticket in their Discord server.

[SKYLINE]

2 hours ago, Jeroen said:

The CCW exam has recently been rewritten, I implore you to try it out.

15 hours ago, SKYLINE said:

That's great to hear, it's just sadly overshadowed by the last point I made.

 

2 hours ago, Jeroen said:

If there's any part of the law that creates the headache, I implore you to lobby for a change with SAGOV.

 

I don't recall the last time I saw an SAGOV character on the server, nor do I truthfully have much motivation left to bother in all honesty.

 

2 hours ago, Jeroen said:

If there's any part of any Server Management mandated rules that creates the headache, I implore you to lobby for a change with server management.

 

It's part of a far wider systemic issue that I doubt I - as a random player with no particular repute - could hope to change an issue of that magnitude. When, in most cases, you will just be stuck with some variation of breaking FearRP for having used your CCW or otherwise stuck with some sort of other rulebreak, plus the statistical consideration of the complete possibility that you run into somebody using third party modifications or, moreover, the entire risk that if you don't kill somebody or if their friends survive that they'll just come after you...

 

.. well, at that point I'd rather just let them do whatever they want and go on with my day afterwards. It isn't like they ever behave in a way that my character could derive any slither of development from anyway.

 

3 hours ago, Jeroen said:

If there's anything else, contact FLD by making a ticket in their Discord server.

It's good to see that FLD is so willing to assist with the issue, but I feel the majority of reasons people don't bother and / or are annoyed doesn't really have anything to do with FLD.

[Kari]

Good Cause is an LFM implemented ruling and LFM rarely changes their mind when such things are in their purview; and written in blood.

There is a reason for this. There are noticeable effects when it's easier to get firearms.

[Smurf]

On 2/2/2025 at 11:06 AM, Jeroen said:

Okay, you're telling me to think outside of the box. Which privileges does a CCW grant a high-end security guard that a GC doesn't grant already?

GC's don't exist IRL


 

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If you're employed at a gun store, you're allowed to possess a firearm even without a PF license according to the SHAFT Act.

The ownership of a gunstore, as the player stated, you as the owner have to have a CCW and PF. Thus not employed by the gunstore itself.
 

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In that case PM is misinterpreting what a CCW is meant for, and you should complain to them instead.

What PM's interpreting is that they want the owner of the store to be well knowledgeful of firearms. But I as an American, whom owns well over 20+ firearms and I myself have a CCW, even though my state doesn't necessarily require me to have it anymore but I've had it since I was 22 years of age. It's not about complaining to them, because one person going to complain to a department within the staff team is like an Ant thinking they can lift a bolder the size of a small car.
 

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The CCW exam has recently been rewritten, I implore you to try it out.

This is something I've yet to experience and it's ironic that you've said this as this post is about the good cause clause, which you need a good cause to be able to even gain access to the CCW exam to even remotely see what the rewritten exam looks like. But if it's nothing like the old exams? Fucking shout out the people that reworked that horribly written European setting you up for failure old ass exam! Hopefully it was rewritten by Americans that understand California gun laws (im not from there and I'm aware it's San Andreas, and im also aware that there's different gun laws server lore wise)
 

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I feel sorry that the whole process might feel like an inconvenience to you.

It's not just the OP, it's a mass majority of Americans that understand that the gun laws that're server lore side or whatever, they're just violating a lot of 2A gun laws and the good cause clause shouldn't be persistent to "well you could call 911" - "Do you avoid these groups or have you reported these actions?"; all of which are valid points of responding to good clauses until you realize we're playing a video game and this video game people kill you for snitching instead of fleeing the area of crime. While yes you could argue "leave the area and get to a safe space to report the crime" if you report said crime and they are caught up for said crime, you will be harassed for it because the likelihood of a good Samaritan reporting the crime is slim to none unless the crime that's being held is completely in public area.

So again, it's not an inconvenience to just the OP. As an American, it's an inconvenience to a lot of people RPing native born Americans that on an OOC basis understand the American gun laws too.

 

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If there's any part of the law that creates the headache, I implore you to lobby for a change with SAGOV.

Why do WE have to change something that should've been studied and advised with actual Americans or people that understand the American amendments? While yes, we understand LFM is hard set on balance and what not. It still makes no sense as to why exactly the IC gun stores are selling 33 round magazines when on an IRL scale, you can't own above a 10 round magazine within the state of California.
 

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If there's any part of any Server Management mandated rules that creates the headache, I implore you to lobby for a change with server management.

Again, above. SM implemented regulations for balance. These balances highkey prevent a lot of good portrayal for people to just outright not RP good American characters; for portrayal aspects. While yes, I understand California (San Andreas) is a state that's like probably, if not the worse state to own a firearm within. If you want portrayal aspects of realism? 90% of the legal guns on this server wouldn't exist and there would be a background hold check on a firearm for about 2 weeks to a month before the purchase was finalized.
 

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If there's anything else, contact FLD by making a ticket in their Discord server.

Nothing is wrong with FLD besides the OOC preventions of what the OP is talking about.

[Martyn]

13 minutes ago, Smurf said:

GC's don't exist IRL


 

The ownership of a gunstore, as the player stated, you as the owner have to have a CCW and PF. Thus not employed by the gunstore itself.
 

What PM's interpreting is that they want the owner of the store to be well knowledgeful of firearms. But I as an American, whom owns well over 20+ firearms and I myself have a CCW, even though my state doesn't necessarily require me to have it anymore but I've had it since I was 22 years of age. It's not about complaining to them, because one person going to complain to a department within the staff team is like an Ant thinking they can lift a bolder the size of a small car.
 

This is something I've yet to experience and it's ironic that you've said this as this post is about the good cause clause, which you need a good cause to be able to even gain access to the CCW exam to even remotely see what the rewritten exam looks like. But if it's nothing like the old exams? Fucking shout out the people that reworked that horribly written European setting you up for failure old ass exam! Hopefully it was rewritten by Americans that understand California gun laws (im not from there and I'm aware it's San Andreas, and im also aware that there's different gun laws server lore wise)
 

It's not just the OP, it's a mass majority of Americans that understand that the gun laws that're server lore side or whatever, they're just violating a lot of 2A gun laws and the good cause clause shouldn't be persistent to "well you could call 911" - "Do you avoid these groups or have you reported these actions?"; all of which are valid points of responding to good clauses until you realize we're playing a video game and this video game people kill you for snitching instead of fleeing the area of crime. While yes you could argue "leave the area and get to a safe space to report the crime" if you report said crime and they are caught up for said crime, you will be harassed for it because the likelihood of a good Samaritan reporting the crime is slim to none unless the crime that's being held is completely in public area.

So again, it's not an inconvenience to just the OP. As an American, it's an inconvenience to a lot of people RPing native born Americans that on an OOC basis understand the American gun laws too.

 

Why do WE have to change something that should've been studied and advised with actual Americans or people that understand the American amendments? While yes, we understand LFM is hard set on balance and what not. It still makes no sense as to why exactly the IC gun stores are selling 33 round magazines when on an IRL scale, you can't own above a 10 round magazine within the state of California.
 

Again, above. SM implemented regulations for balance. These balances highkey prevent a lot of good portrayal for people to just outright not RP good American characters; for portrayal aspects. While yes, I understand California (San Andreas) is a state that's like probably, if not the worse state to own a firearm within. If you want portrayal aspects of realism? 90% of the legal guns on this server wouldn't exist and there would be a background hold check on a firearm for about 2 weeks to a month before the purchase was finalized.
 

Nothing is wrong with FLD besides the OOC preventions of what the OP is talking about.

 

Lets not pretend as if the majority of the experienced players on this server haven't already figured out a way to by-pass their ridiculously unrealistic good cause system. Everyone I know fakes 911 calls, uses the graffiti system to put threats on their own properties and stages breakins with death threat notes left behind. All to get the CCW. The people defending this system are honestly really toxic and we should go back to roleplaying America, I joined GTA:W to roleplay in an American setting. Back when I joined GTA:W there was no good cause, there wasn't even a CCW exam. I never noticed an uprise of CCW toting idiots. And now that we have extremely strict regulations on PF applications, as in having to have been on the server for 3months, requiring 100 hours on the character, not having any recent bans, we should be able to go back to the fundamentals of which America was build on and the fundamental rights every American citizen has.

 

I don't think some people quite understand how immersion breaking this is, and how it actually turns our little world into just another European state.  The second admendment literally says "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Which essentially means, even if we did have a good cause? Said good cause is literally "I'm an American, that's my good cause". Because it's a FUNDEMENTAL right of any American citizen. Roleplaying this any differently is absolutely bonkers and insanity and disrespectful to the American contitution as a whole.

[Storm]

i member the cat girl ccw squads. are they over yet chat?

[Red Reika]

CCW exam and the very unrealistic difficulty to get one have nothing to do with realism, its just because management don't want civilians with guns.

 

Everybody know that already, right?

Edited February 6 by Red Reika

[DLimit]

I mean, if we want realism, then every one would be obligated to to a 16 hour training course instead of an exam. It may be the U.S., but every state has different Laws in regards to owning a firearm. On GTAW, instead of having to be active for a 16 hour training course, you simply read a manual or two and submit an exam at your own pace.

So, what do we want? Realism? Or realism and convenience just for thee?

[DLimit]

On 2/5/2025 at 3:11 PM, Martyn said:

Which essentially means, even if we did have a good cause? Said good cause is literally "I'm an American, that's my good cause". Because it's a FUNDEMENTAL right of any American citizen. Roleplaying this any differently is absolutely bonkers and insanity and disrespectful to the American contitution as a whole.

So, why can't you own "assault weapons" (as THEY put it), in California, Amurrika, if this oh-so divine Constitution protects it? Every state is different. Placing "I'm an Amurrikan" on any Good Cause request isn't going to give you your gun. Minus waiting for an F.B.I. background check and an approval from the local sheriff? It'd take 6 months before they reject you.

Edited February 8 by DLimit

[Wasloos]

+1

 

The difficulty to get a CCW should be almost as easy as a PF, since people who have a PF carry their weapons anyways.

 

Put OOC red tape around it, like with the PF. IC hurdles make absolutely no sense. Especially considering that everyone with a PF treats it like CCW anyways