Capital Punishment

[Hart]

Opening Pandora's Box



As a member of SADCR, I've noticed this topic popping up on a frequent basis in the Discord from both CO's and Inmates alike. And I believe it would be more productive to bring this conversation to the forums, where everyone can share their thoughts in an more "civil" manner.

I've done a little bit research on the topic, which I've included below. If I missed any relevant points or facts, feel free to contribute to the discussion.

 

Quote

 

Source: CDCR



Source: deathpenalty.org

 

 

source: CDCR

 

The last person executed in California was Clarence Ray Allen, who orchestrated multiple murders through others. His execution took place on January 17, 2006. Since then, all executions in the state have been halted, and California now has over 600 inmates (As of 2024) on death row, making it the largest death row population in the Western Hemisphere.

Should Capital Punishment be a thing in San Andreas?
 

Let's have an open and respectful discussion, please avoid personal attacks or criticism on factions and individuals.

Edited January 8 by Hart

[Soyuz]

Yes, we need a way to dissuade lifers in SADCR from killing people willy-nilly.

• It should have LFM approval for each request (already the case)
• It needs to meet the legal requirements to qualify for capital punishment (already the case)

The only thing we could add that many jurisdictions have is, when you're convicted of a crime and sentenced to death penalty, it triggers an automatic appeal in the Supreme Court who validates the death penalty against you. But that might be a lot.

Edited January 8 by Soyuz

[luna~]

Like any state wide law, it should be a thing the people vote for or against it, which has occurred here in character twice. It was abolished in 2021, signed into law by the Governor. There was a major petition that time as well to try and veto it, that was passed around in character prior to it being signed. It failed to do so then. It was only repealed in 2023 I believe because there was a shift in politics or culture by the people and it became an option once again as a means of punishment.

 

As to whether there should or shouldn't be capital punishment in San Andreas? Well that is ultimately down to the people to decide if they want it or not in character. The individuals they voted so far had made their agendas clear for the most part when running for office. That is also partly why we now have the death penalty back. Does it make sense when compared to real life California to go back on something like that? Noooo, not really. But we, as in the server, do not mimic California's current politics or affairs. We, the citizens of San Andreas in character, already shaped what type of political bodies we have sat in office, and the stance on capital punishment is the by-product of that. There is absolutely nothing stopping it from being abolished again if enough people lobby for it correctly. I do, however, believe, there should be options for a stay of execution rather than it occurring rather swiftly. Death row takes years, a lot of time to muster up ways to try appeal it. But time flies here and it feels like there might not be enough time for the death row inmate to petition/appeal against it. I'd also love to see a charity formed here specifically for these cases, who can help fight their case in a court.

 

Personally, it's either or for me if I look at it in character completely. I have characters that'd like to see it remain. I have others  that would be appalled by the very notion it's a thing in this day and age. End of it all, the people paved the way democratically for this specific form of punishment to be back on the table again. Can't really argue with those votes and cultural/political shift, it simply happened.

Edited January 8 by luna~

[nokturn]

Should be an IC vote like Luna said. 

[Engelbert]

You dont need it. There are plenty of CKs in prison every day. (Joke aside), I think this up to a debate as to when should such punishment be issued.

[Wasloos]

I remember that we once had a situation where someone got capital punishment, the RP involving it was insanely good... An IG court deciding whether or not it should happen etc, but I remember staff intervening for whatever reason. It was really good RP, however if it comes back, it should remain as something rare.

[Milton]

10 hours ago, Soyuz said:

Yes, we need a way to dissuade lifers in SADCR from killing people willy-nilly.

• It should have LFM approval for each request (already the case)
• It needs to meet the legal requirements to qualify for capital punishment (already the case)

The only thing we could add that many jurisdictions have is, when you're convicted of a crime and sentenced to death penalty, it triggers an automatic appeal in the Supreme Court who validates the death penalty against you. But that might be a lot.

 

Agree! 

I think the idea of introducing capital punishment could definitely add an interesting dynamic to the server. It could bring a whole new layer of tension, where players really have to think about the consequences of their actions, especially for lifers and those who've committed heinous crimes. The fear of facing the death penalty (CK) could make people reconsider their decisions, whether they're on the streets or behind bars. Anyway, it's a good way to spice things up, but also make things a bit unpredictable. Lifers again in prison, there's this mentality where they feel like they have nothing left to lose. They've already been sentenced to life, so they can get away with almost anything without facing consequences. I'm prett sure that right now, many of them may have killed dozens without facing any real repercussions, maybe just getting thrown into isolation or losing some privileges here and there, but that's about it. The threat of a death sentence could be the thing that shakes them out of that mindset and forces them to think about the long-term consequences of their behavior. 

 

 

[foogonewild]

No, AFAIK capital punishment hasn't been utilized in California in a very long time as there's a court order against executions. 

 

However, with the current political shifts we are seeing in the US, should they bring back capital punishment in years/decades to come - let's bring it back when it makes sense. If we're talking about Immersion and roleplaying similarly to Cali/LA then let's do it. You have a better chance being released in prison/jail for your crimes now than being executed, lol. (e.g. people with 6+ points in the system in Cali roaming streets freely).

[MyNameIsCian]

We’re playing a game… let people roleplay it if it’s something they want but I don’t think it’s a good idea for the server.

[CYCOSOCIAL]

The death penalty was brought back on the server before SADCR was on the server. It was cleared I believe by LFM, FM, IFM, et cetera, and all of the current prison factions were consulted about it likewise. It stemmed from TTCF days when lifers were committing more murders than you could count to the point it was extremely unrealistic, and it has gone to the point where now it's actually improved prison roleplay in that regard - heavy-hitters are no longer openly killing people in the prison anymore, it's pawned off to easily manipulated young criminals wanting to make names for themselves who don't realise they're being manipulated. It's an IC issue, it was decided as an IC issue, and if we want to remove it, it should also be done ICly. 

 

4 hours ago, ilikegothbitches said:

Why does SADCR have such a hard on for wanting to CK inmates/lifers, it's getting down right creepy and weird. At the start of the faction's inception when McCoughlin transferred over to it we had ex-LSSD members (now SADOC members) tossing the same discussion in their discord pushing for max sentencing and death penalties, wanting to perform lethal injection roleplay or other types. 

 

No, it should never be a thing because it's weird roleplay.

 

Ridiculous misinformation at it's finest. I nor any of my faction care on an OOC level about who is or who isn't CKed or sentenced to death for X or Y crime, that's ridiculous. In-character is a very different animal entirely. When the DCR was established, it was debated on what to do with the death penalty and how to handle it on an IC level which included consultations with the prisoner population, the SADCR roleplayers themselves, the government, and LFM and FM which at the time was led by Sharvit who was involved in this. Painstaking research was done in order to replicate IRL documents and procedure ( For ex. https://dpic-cdn.org/production/legacy/CALethInject.pdf ) and '''loreify'' them to fit into any server that roleplays around these extremely sensitive topics, and to treat them with respect. I think I can talk for the few people that have found themselves sentenced to death on the server that the roleplay around it was extremely nuanced, delicate, and handled in a way that improved roleplay for everyone involved. People were granted media interviews, consultations with medical and religious professionals, access to department executives and wardens, nuanced roleplay with legal counsel and other avenues of roleplay that has never been explored on this server before ever. PHMC, LSFD, DMEC (at the time) were reached out to and consulted about what role they would play in this. I can't speak for them but from the general consensus I got the majority enjoyed what was offered to them and found it was handled in a respectful way OOC which was only intended to provide roleplay. 

You can't say ''oh, this is weird'' on a server that bases itself on high roleplay but still has the ''GTA-isms'' that exaggerate elements of roleplay in order to provide for the playerbase. The exact same arguments are used - stupidly - to nullify stuff like white prison roleplay, peckerwood roleplay, EOC, LCN, Norteno roleplay. Then it gets to the point where you're arguing more and more about which E-deaths are valid to roleplay and which aren't. Treat this issue as something uniquely IC and don't let your OOC feelings of this shine through and you will find that this isn't a /me injects X with Y and he's CKed situation. Everything is about providing roleplay in ways that people haven't experienced before. 

 

My sixpence anyway. Treat it as an IC issue. OOC, do I think it's needed? Yeah, refer to my first paragraph for the reasons why. In two years, it's been used twice - once for a prison murder, and once for a gang member that CKed three cops in one shooting. Both were eventually overturned on appeal. We have yet to see it actually used and not be overturned. It's realistic. It's a deterrent.

Edited January 8 by CYCOSOCIAL