Bring Liberty City back but in the main server

[Blöp]

It is hardly possible to populate the current playing area with 800 players. Adding another map to the server would dilute this even further. While I would love to have an actual use for the airports and would probably also enjoy roaming around LC, I believe this is a bad idea for now. We would likely have a few hotspots in LC the same way we have a few hotspots on the current map, and that would be it. Running businesses and keeping factions alive would be even more complex, so... I don't know. 

 

I feel there are more downsides than potential gains in this. Finding a middle ground and adding some holiday destinations like Cayo Perico would be amazing. A main city where you need a fire department, police, government, and everything else... no. Finding civilian workers for these is hard enough already; we don't have the numbers to upkeep two cities, unfortunately. 

[Koko]

The potential of it becoming a low RP alternate location are too big. Factions like the Fire Department, PHMC or the courts are already niche enough as it is that its the same stable of players keeping them around.

 

LC would potentially lack too many of the basic expected services and player-ran structures to be livable other than by illegal factions wanting a new battleground.

 

That or it absorbs enough players that LS continues down the road of feeling lifeless, then people get bored of LC within two months.

 

I also worry about the logistics of being between cities and travel, and people just basically going on coast to coast trips 3 times a week cause they're bored, and the impact on a heavy RP server that already has a strained relationship with realism.

[DLimit]

My only actual input to this is that the L.C. map wouldn't seem as barren, compared to S.A., as it's smaller and compact.

[BadassBaboon]

8 hours ago, Pandy said:

what are we gonna do about the whole court system? copy and paste our penal code and slightly modify it? what about the senate? if we're struggling to keep individuals rping as judges, lawyers, and district attorneys, how are we supposed to manage that for a new city? what about staffing LCPD, LCFD, Public Works, etc without it effecting LS? are we copy and pasting interiors? what about the MDC? what about staffing a prison? hospital? 

 

i feel like this just isn't feasible. you could say, "this could be settled in time", sure, but unfortunately, that's what they said about LC before as well. 

Well, this time it's all in one server, sure, it won't be easy at first, the key here is to try and create a balance. The penal code can be modified to match each city's culture, for the whole prosecution and judicial system, something like a supreme court can be introduced, where both cities contribute to it at the same time. Senate can be a shared thing as well, it would only make sense, it's the senate afterall. PD, FD and SD factions will eventually have their own fair share of members, I'm sure people who previously were a part of LCPD and FDLC would return to contribute, but (optional) mandatory rotations and transfers can be introduced with a proper IC reason too. Interior wise? LC already does have more than enough, houses, businesses, PD and FD stations, even Port warehouses, all thanks to the old GTAW:LC, those can be used. Prisons of both maps can be managed under something like Federal Bureau of Prisons, or straight up transfer convicts to just 1 prison in either LC or SA, since IRL they do transfer convicts cross states as well. IRL police officers can use their MDC to run a check on every US citizen, they have a shared database. A hospital? well that's up to the players to create a faction and run a hospital in LC should they choose to, or they could RP going to PHMC in LS for state of the art medical treatment or something.

 

7 hours ago, Alyssa McCarthy said:

The reason I'm against this is that even when there are 8-900 people online, the playerbase already seems very thin and spread out.

 

Making an entire new map would just make this even worse & harder for newcomers to find RP.

 

The points about legal systems, law, government etc are also extremely valid and would complicate what is already an extremely complex system.

About the legal system, law, etc.. I wrote something below the quote above. I debunked the 8-900 people online while server feeling empty conundrum thing on page 12, but here it is again just in case:

Spoiler

For those who say the map feels empty even with 700-800 players, I hope this helps you understand why

 

Here are the marked areas where you can almost always find some RP or players (click to zoom)

 

As you can see, most of the map isn't marked, they're either highways, hills, industrial or restricted zones, housing areas, parks, landmarks, and construction sites. Now you may ask, why add LC? lets dedicate resources to fill the rest up. IFM and PM do allow players to do their RP and have properties and business where ever they want, but there is a reason they only pick anywhere near or in the green-marked areas, for factions it could be reasons such as an area fitting for their cultural and RP style, for example, Eurasian factions mainly stick to Morningwood, Gangs mostly stick around Davis or Rancho, etc... some areas can be used for certain faction schemes like construction sites, some areas can be used for certain white collar factions like the docks, but see, V's map isn't as diverse for a RP community all by itself. Almost every single area has been recycled for the same purposes and concepts many different times, making everything stagnant and overdone.
In those green-marked areas, at least some players will RP indoors, and some in back alleys or spots where you might not see them at first glance, and on top of all that, there is the major useless landmasses of the map where R* was criticized for throughout the years. This makes SA an endless drain, no matter how many players play in it, it will inevitably always have a sense of emptiness.

Players have already done an excellent job, cranking almost everything out of what SA has to offer, some with a suspension of disbelief here and there, like LCN factions for example. With LC in the mix you will have new opportunities to explore, new concepts to try, and to an extent, mitigate the stagnant-ness of SA, for example, traveling agencies, different kinds of illegal cross-state trafficking, factions with branches in both cities. Of course rules, script adjustments and assigning certain unique aspects to each map is needed to incentivise people to contribute to both and not just one, maybe exclusive drugs and weapons assigned to each map, unique vehicles and vehicle prices for each city's dealerships, maybe rotational transfers for PD, SD and FD, see, this is very much possible if done right.

 

6 hours ago, righteous wheeler said:

Honestly?

I enjoyed Liberty City a fair bit, the roleplay was unique and a breath of fresh air as we've had the same map for about five years now, but...

The population on San Andreas is already spread thinly as it is, now, may it bring new people in? Definitely, but most likely not enough to justify adding it in, as we'll just have both cities as ghost towns. If we'd have double, or triple the playerbase we already do? I'd see it working out, if it doesn't impact user performance, but for now it just isn't feasible to add.

See the spoiler above.

 

6 hours ago, Blöp said:

It is hardly possible to populate the current playing area with 800 players. Adding another map to the server would dilute this even further. While I would love to have an actual use for the airports and would probably also enjoy roaming around LC, I believe this is a bad idea for now. We would likely have a few hotspots in LC the same way we have a few hotspots on the current map, and that would be it. Running businesses and keeping factions alive would be even more complex, so... I don't know. 

 

I feel there are more downsides than potential gains in this. Finding a middle ground and adding some holiday destinations like Cayo Perico would be amazing. A main city where you need a fire department, police, government, and everything else... no. Finding civilian workers for these is hard enough already; we don't have the numbers to upkeep two cities, unfortunately. 

See the spoiler above, we do have the numbers for both cities. Also, LC is far more condensed, hotspots will be inventibly far more closer to each other, if you've played on GTAW:LC when that was a thing, you'd know. It felt decently active with just 150-200 players in it.

 

4 hours ago, Koko said:

The potential of it becoming a low RP alternate location are too big. Factions like the Fire Department, PHMC or the courts are already niche enough as it is that its the same stable of players keeping them around.

 

LC would potentially lack too many of the basic expected services and player-ran structures to be livable other than by illegal factions wanting a new battleground.

 

That or it absorbs enough players that LS continues down the road of feeling lifeless, then people get bored of LC within two months.

 

I also worry about the logistics of being between cities and travel, and people just basically going on coast to coast trips 3 times a week cause they're bored, and the impact on a heavy RP server that already has a strained relationship with realism.

How? It's the same server, same staff, same rules and standards. Like I explained in this same message, there are ways to maintain those factions and even expand upon them. On top of that, IFM needs to take a look at how GTAW:LC went down, and implement certain rules and changes to avoid a "battleground" situation. Also, see the spoiler above for the "feeling lifeless" thing.

And see, rules have to be tweaked, scripts have to be adjusted, it's not like if this happens, they'll just toss in the LC map and say "There you go, see ya!", so it means there will be a balance for how players travel, how they move assets, etc... for example, you shouldn't be allowed to equip a weapon for 6 hours after you just traveled to avoid people killing someone and then comfortably fly black, shipping vehicles cross states could be expensive and time consuming where it would only benefit people such as dealership owners to do it, traveling agencies could provide actual RP as you would travel. IRL you have to book a flight first, it takes time, and I'm sure with certain limitations and adjustments you can avoid people hopping around maps like Super Mario.

Edited January 10 by BadassBaboon

[Soyuz]

In a perfect timeline we’d scrap SA entirely and move to LC. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect timeline. 

[nwiomii]

just bring it back i wanna have ic vacations since i can't even leave my country irl, let me enjoy my delusional girl activities 

[Pandy]

15 minutes ago, BadassBaboon said:

Well, this time it's all in one server, sure, it won't be easy at first, the key here is to try and create a balance. The penal code can be modified to match each city's culture, for the whole prosecution and judicial system, something like a supreme court can be introduced, where both cities contribute to it at the same time. Senate can be a shared thing as well, it would only make sense, it's the senate afterall. PD, FD and SD factions will eventually have their own fair share of members, I'm sure people who previously were a part of LCPD and FDLC would return to contribute, but (optional) mandatory rotations and transfers can be introduced with a proper IC reason too. Interior wise? LC already does have more than enough, houses, businesses, PD and FD stations, even Port warehouses, all thanks to the old GTAW:LC, those can be used. Prisons of both maps can be managed under something like Federal Bureau of Prisons, or straight up transfer convicts to just 1 prison in either LC or SA, since IRL they do transfer convicts cross states as well. IRL police officers can use their MDC to run a check on every US citizen, they have a shared database. A hospital? well that's up to the players to create a faction and run a hospital in LC should they choose to, or they could RP going to PHMC in LS for state of the art medical treatment or something.

 

About the legal system, law, etc.. I wrote something below the quote above. I debunked the 8-900 people online while server feeling empty conundrum thing on page 12, but here it is again just in case:

  Reveal hidden contents

For those who say the map feels empty even with 700-800 players, I hope this helps you understand why

 

Here are the marked areas where you can almost always find some RP or players (click to zoom)

 

As you can see, most of the map isn't marked, they're either highways, hills, industrial or restricted zones, housing areas, parks, landmarks, and construction sites. Now you may ask, why add LC? lets dedicate resources to fill the rest up. IFM and PM do allow players to do their RP and have properties and business where ever they want, but there is a reason they only pick anywhere near or in the green-marked areas, for factions it could be reasons such as an area fitting for their cultural and RP style, for example, Eurasian factions mainly stick to Morningwood, Gangs mostly stick around Davis or Rancho, etc... some areas can be used for certain faction schemes like construction sites, some areas can be used for certain white collar factions like the docks, but see, V's map isn't as diverse for a RP community all by itself. Almost every single area has been recycled for the same purposes and concepts many different times, making everything stagnant and overdone.
In those green-marked areas, at least some players will RP indoors, and some in back alleys or spots where you might not see them at first glance, and on top of all that, there is the major useless landmasses of the map where R* was criticized for throughout the years. This makes SA an endless drain, no matter how many players play in it, it will inevitably always have a sense of emptiness.

Players have already done an excellent job, cranking almost everything out of what SA has to offer, some with a suspension of disbelief here and there, like LCN factions for example. With LC in the mix you will have new opportunities to explore, new concepts to try, and to an extent, mitigate the stagnant-ness of SA, for example, traveling agencies, different kinds of illegal cross-state trafficking, factions with branches in both cities. Of course rules, script adjustments and assigning certain unique aspects to each map is needed to incentivise people to contribute to both and not just one, maybe exclusive drugs and weapons assigned to each map, unique vehicles and vehicle prices for each city's dealerships, maybe rotational transfers for PD, SD and FD, see, this is very much possible if done right.

 

See the spoiler above.

 

See the spoiler above, we do have the numbers for both cities. Also, LC is far more condensed, hotspots will be inventibly far more closer to each other, if you've played on GTAW:LC when that was a thing, you'd know. It felt decently active with just 150-200 players in it.

 

How? It's the same server, same staff, same rules and standards. Like I explained in this same message, there are ways to maintain those factions and even expand upon them. On top of that, IFM needs to take a look at how GTAW:LC went down, and implement certain rules and changes to avoid a "battleground" situation. Also, see the spoiler above for the "feeling lifeless" thing.

And see, rules have to be tweaked, scripts have to be adjusted, it's not like if this happens, they'll just toss in the LC map and say "There you go, see ya!", so it means there will be a balance for how players travel, how they move assets, etc... for example, you shouldn't be allowed to equip a weapon for 6 hours after you just traveled to avoid people killing someone and then comfortably fly black, shipping vehicles cross states could be expensive and time consuming where it would only benefit people such as dealership owners to do it, traveling agencies could provide actual RP as you would travel. IRL you have to book a flight first, it takes time, and I'm sure with certain limitations and adjustments you can avoid people hopping around maps like Super Mario.

where are we getting these extra players that want to run LC JSA/DAO/GOV? the current DAO and JSA are overworked crazy, so they're certainly not gonna wanna manage a whole different city with differing laws and a different circuit. something like a supreme court would make zero sense for two cities that are across the US from each other with different cultures, laws, circuits, and expectations. 

 

i can appreciate the love for LC but i genuinely believe it's not in the realm of possibility unless we get a boom of players, which i don't believe is gonna happen anytime soon. 

[nwiomii]

just make LC like a vacation roleplay area? Not an actual working city, with LCPD, ETC....  I don't know, i'm just trying to give ideas to make this easier to work, so we can also give the server a chance to make the airport work a purpose, there's a whole mapped interior for no rp going on in there, at least not deep roleplay, I don't think that any crimes would occur in LC since you should go thru the airport process and no guns or drugs would be allowed, and you could get detained, so.

 

I mean, if it's possible to make both cities work with a gov, lcpd, and etc... isn't that better? but like, if it's not possible, there is always the idea to roleplay on LC like a vacation place. 

Of course this idea is not full of details, like... what would you do in these vacations if there is nothing to do? Like, clubs, etc... I mean, yeah, but... there's always something we can do about this, I don't know, if club penguin can do it, we can do it.

 

Nothing is impossible, there is always something that we can do, maybe some people rather to roleplay on LC, so give them a way to keep the city active, with business, bars, restaurants, clubs... events? I don't know, everything is possible, we are the only ones trying to limite everything, like roblox said, "Powering Imagination".

Edited January 10 by nwiomii

[slump]

There's no way we could effectively run two different cities in the same server instance with this player count, LC dream is dead and gone, give it up, forcing it will just make more players mad and the very small minority of LCN hardcore fans and Liberty City lovers happy. It's not plausible, it'll make the server worse over-all and more dead. If we had 2k people daily, maybe, 900? No way. 

[nwiomii]

we are cooked