let us protect our property

[ThatMindlessOne]

Just going to put my opinion here... having done both illegal and legal RP,

 

Legal RP is lose lose in every situation when it comes to *defending* as every aspect already has a gun weilded in their face.

 

Realistically would 1 person rob a house with a gun drawn.

If yes how many people are inside? Most of the time 2 or more.

would a minor do this with a gun? Likely not, what's stopping Legal RPers drawing a gun and defending their property.

The banned player in question had they aimed at the legs to **injure state** may of been a different story but there was probably a p2w mentality somewhere in the scene from someone.

 

If situation allows defense forum driven CK narratives shouldn't be a thing *IF* the RP makes sense same for /report.

Defending your property as a known legal RPer should be allowed and players shouldn't fear forum reported for *defending* what's rightfully theirs.

Putting someone in death state is a bit far, injured state yes given you only intend to stop the robbery of property and let authorities **ICCLY** deal with the situation.

 

From an illegal prospective, most youl catch me with is a crowbar for jimmying the door open or picks, why would I run the risk of extended jail/medical time for a watch? Accepting death should be imo reported for abusing getting out of ic punishment.

 

Like... if I broke into a house and the owner held me at gunpoint fair play! 

Tables turned now what? Comply with them? Or risk being ck'd or arrested for little time cause I wasn't caught with drugs/guns on me.

 

Had that person in the ban put me in a death state I may of /b asked why for clarification then maybe asked if we can revert with /report to injured (( cause it is a very fast paced and stressful rp avenue for both sides )) 

 

Alot should and could be kept IC but server mentality of p2w on BOTH SIDES illegal and legal... we won't see It unless rules are changed ooc and ic.

 

One thing I think should happen is illegal RP (( yes beaucracy, if you want it enough youl do it )) should be behind a small app to ensure proper and realistic RP is carried out as alot is copy pasted and very little "char development" petty muggings giving Legal no chance to RP as a scene can last 20 seconds if that at best and it might level out the overwhelming amount of illegal RPers and the same people not being robbed 3 times a day.

The app will also help managment see the balance between illegal and legal RPers and find ways to balance things out, but again my opinion

[Jeroen]

@ThatMindlessGuy shooting someone in the leg is probably the worst idea for a legal character. When you shoot your gun, you shoot to stop the threat, and shooting someone in the legs is not the most effective way.

 

Not only is shooting someone in the legs impractical due to being narrow targets and often fast moving, but leg shots are often not even immediately incapacitating due to adrenaline. Both yourself and the suspect likely will also get a huge adrenaline dump, shooting accurately will be hard because of adrenaline.

 

Shooting someone in the leg can also be argued in court to be excessive force, as you're purposefully shooting at someone where they can easily get a permanent disability, that is even disregarding the high chance of hitting a femoral artery.

[ThatMindlessOne]

@Jeroen true but we could debate so could a shot anywhere, for example, one of my characters (( legal )) was shot they now have a life long issue from a shot the the stomach, and one to the chest which will effect the future of the character for aslong as I RP them.

 

But that's the risk players face, why can't a Legal char defend themselves and possibly inflict that on someone hostile?

[travie!]

17 hours ago, Stevefish said:

Honestly, -1.

 

Outside of someone busting down your door with a shotgun or with a gun, there is almost no reason you can get permission to shoot and kill someone, especially in IRL California.

We have got to stop comparing this server to California. Staff members love to use IRL when it's convenient to them but say it's just a game when it's not. So truthfully, this is a terrible take.

 

If you are bold enough to commit a crime, you are bold enough to handle the consequences of the crime. You cannot compare this server to California because it helps you get your point across. Please tell me, as an illegal roleplayer, if someone is stealing my car in my face. You want me to run up and say stop? You want me to take a risk in getting gunned down? If I have a firearm on me and someone is committing a crime to my property, they will be dealt with. You are arguing legality to players who don't follow those rules. So yes, you should be able to kill if someone is brave enough to steal or break into your property. Whether it's a car or a garage. You simply don't live in reality if you think someone won't kill because of what a law says. That's what court is for.

 

Your sentiment caters to a specific group of players, not even the majority. Go to any hood in California and try to steal a car and come back to me with that especially in IRL quote. Let me know what happens, since everything is based off IRL when you guys deem so. Most people steal with a firearm on them or some type of weapon. This is a terrible take that wasn't thought out whatsoever. The server shouldn't cater to one specific group of people and what they deem realistic. Again, IRL is only brought up when it's convenient. Which is honestly confirmation bias, not the reality of the subject.

[adriwi]

I think one of the issues is, I don't even want to defend my property. For what? I defend my property, and for the next week / few weeks I have to deal with a group of people wanting to kill / kidnap me. Which IMO makes no sense, you come into my property, it goes wrong, it's fine, it happens, and then for the next week / few weeks you just keep coming and coming and coming back to get revenge because of your mistake?

And let's not talk about the "snitch" mentality. Civilians are not snitches, they call the cops because they're just normal people calling police when needed, yes, they called the police when you started a bar fight or a brawl surrounded by +30 people in a bar / club. No, you don't have to chase him because he is a "snitch." He is just a normal person behaving like a normal civilian.

The issue is not that we can't defend our property as legal RP'ers (I play both btw, before anyone thinks this is being a one-sided opinion, the only side I've not RP'ed is police) The issue is that I don't even want to do it, because the consequences make no sense.
 
I taxed someone some time ago with my faction. Didn't comply, car on fire, note in her house. Called police? CK'ed. Just think about it. I'll get like... a few days in jail maybe, if I get caught? She gets a CK. That is why most people try to push a shooting to force a PK, Because it's the only way to deal with a problem without weeks and weeks of punishment for behaving like a normal civilian. So the thing is... why would I not tax her? Of course, I had reasoning, and a background to that, I don't just tax random people that live next to me, what I mean is, if I decide to tax random people that live next to me, nothing is stopping me.

If you go rob someone, or a car, anything really, and it goes wrong? Next time anything happens to that person, whether it's you or someone else totally unrelated doing it, you will become the target for the police, as you are already connected to that person and a crime, so coming back is just not a good move. But then again, if they do, and you call police again? It eventually pushes into a CK app, because you're "snitching?"

So pretty much, the safest answer is, yes, let them take anything, no, don't do anything, just keep doing your business, otherwise it's just problems over and over again.
Is this realistic? Well, no, but it is the way the server plays, whether it feels realistic or not, I IC'LY cannot ignore the fact that if I report to the authorities, or defend my property, I will be chased for weeks, so I just don't.


Now, of course, if someone wants to RP a reckless criminal that doesn't even think about the consequences, it is okay, nobody is there to dictate what one can RP and what they can't. Coming back for that person isn't the smart move, as you are connected to them already but, if you want to play a character that doesn't even think and comes back, then of course you are free to do it. The issue is that, well, if you are RP'ing a smart character, you're most likely gonna do it anyways because there are no consequences for it, either that person ends up dying and you get character development, or it escalates to a CK point where they die anyways. All this because you tried to steal a car, or get into a house, an the owner just happened to be there.

Edited December 18, 2024 by adriwi

[knppel]

10 minutes ago, adriwi said:

Now, of course, if someone wants to RP a reckless criminal that doesn't even think about the consequences, it is okay, nobody is there to dictate what one can RP and what they can't. Coming back for that person isn't the smart move, as you are connected but, if you want to play a character that doesn't even think and come back, then of course you are free to do it. The issue is that, well, if you are RP'ing a smart character, you're most likely gonna do it anyways because there are no consequences for it, either that person ends up dying and you get character development, or it escalates to a CK point where they die anyways. All this because you tried to steal a car, or get into a house, an the owner just happened to be there.

If I had a nickle for every report where I read first "My char is a stupid meth head that did not take X in account" only to be followed two lines later with "So of course with his tactical awareness he decided Y was the way to get out"

[Takedown]

It's a double edged sword I think that's how  u call this rule. Another point is that drug dealers don't even have a reason to carry around firearms/weapons anymore because they can't protect their drugs anyways. Someone comes up and robs them? They'll lose everything whether they have a gun or not. Police rolls up? They'll lose everything and also get throw into jail for weapon charges etc.

[BOW]

+1. Have any of you ever got your car broken into irl and actually caught the person in the act? If so tell me how you handled it.

[Takedown]

7 minutes ago, BOW said:

+1. Have any of you ever got your car broken into irl and actually caught the person in the act? If so tell me how you handled it.

 

[travie!]

9 minutes ago, Glocknine said:

 

You do understand that the people who caught him are civilians, correct? Civilians aren't the only players on the server. You cannot expect a gang member to react the same way a civilian does. You sent this video as if it changes anything. Not every situation is going to be handled how YOU want it to be handled.

 

23 minutes ago, Glocknine said:

It's a double edged sword I think that's how  u call this rule. Another point is that drug dealers don't even have a reason to carry around firearms/weapons anymore because they can't protect their drugs anyways. Someone comes up and robs them? They'll lose everything whether they have a gun or not. Police rolls up? They'll lose everything and also get throw into jail for weapon charges etc.

Also this makes no sense. The majority of drug dealers absolutely carry firearms. Also, not every robbery is successful, you understand that right? There have been situations where players were potentially going to be robbed but pulled their firearm quick enough within the rules and kill said robbers. The server is already micromanaged to hell, you have to stop with the hypotheticals. Saying drug dealers have no reason to carry a firearm is asinine. Drug dealers can most definitely protect their drugs, not in the way you think though. A drug dealer isn't going to shoot someone for simply pulling up on them. You're thinking of extremes rather than practicality. Police will always play a factor within illegal and legal roleplay. Bringing them into this discussion is clearly a crutch.

 

50 minutes ago, adriwi said:

I think one of the issues is, I don't even want to defend my property. For what? I defend my property, and for the next week / few weeks I have to deal with a group of people wanting to kill / kidnap me. Which IMO makes no sense, you come into my property, it goes wrong, it's fine, it happens, and then for the next week / few weeks you just keep coming and coming and coming back to get revenge because of your mistake?

And let's not talk about the "snitch" mentality. Civilians are not snitches, they call the cops because they're just normal people calling police when needed, yes, they called the police when you started a bar fight or a brawl surrounded by +30 people in a bar / club. No, you don't have to chase him because he is a "snitch." He is just a normal person behaving like a normal civilian.

The issue is not that we can't defend our property as legal RP'ers (I play both btw, before anyone thinks this is being a one-sided opinion, the only side I've not RP'ed is police) The issue is that I don't even want to do it, because the consequences make no sense.
 
I taxed someone some time ago with my faction. Didn't comply, car on fire, note in her house. Called police? CK'ed. Just think about it. I'll get like... a few days in jail maybe, if I get caught? She gets a CK. That is why most people try to push a shooting to force a PK, Because it's the only way to deal with a problem without weeks and weeks of punishment for behaving like a normal civilian. So the thing is... why would I not tax her? Of course, I had reasoning, and a background to that, I don't just tax random people that live next to me, what I mean is, if I decide to tax random people that live next to me, nothing is stopping me.

If you go rob someone, or a car, anything really, and it goes wrong? Next time anything happens to that person, whether it's you or someone else totally unrelated doing it, you will become the target for the police, as you are already connected to that person and a crime, so coming back is just not a good move. But then again, if they do, and you call police again? It eventually pushes into a CK app, because you're "snitching?"

So pretty much, the safest answer is, yes, let them take anything, no, don't do anything, just keep doing your business, otherwise it's just problems over and over again.
Is this realistic? Well, no, but it is the way the server plays, whether it feels realistic or not, I IC'LY cannot ignore the fact that if I report to the authorities, or defend my property, I will be chased for weeks, so I just don't.


Now, of course, if someone wants to RP a reckless criminal that doesn't even think about the consequences, it is okay, nobody is there to dictate what one can RP and what they can't. Coming back for that person isn't the smart move, as you are connected to them already but, if you want to play a character that doesn't even think and comes back, then of course you are free to do it. The issue is that, well, if you are RP'ing a smart character, you're most likely gonna do it anyways because there are no consequences for it, either that person ends up dying and you get character development, or it escalates to a CK point where they die anyways. All this because you tried to steal a car, or get into a house, an the owner just happened to be there.

 

This is a personal anecdotal. If you are shooting to avoid roleplay that sounds like a skill issue. You say taxed but it's clearly extortion. You do not get to dictate what people should do in situations based on what you do. You do not get to choose when consequences make sense and don't make sense after you put yourself in that box. Also, to my knowledge, you will not get approved for a CK app solely because the person "snitched" on you and they are a civilian. The basic summary of what you said is, don't do anything because when I do it, I get stalked for weeks, and I don't think that's realistic to me.