Why full service restaurants on GTA World are very scarce

[Blade]

So I’ve seen people wonder both IC and OOC why the amount of restaurants on the server is limited, despite the desire from consumers for this kind of RP. I’ve owned and ran a restaurant since July 2023 (Al Dente’s) which puts me in the position to elaborate on the difficulties of running such a business on the server, as well as give some insight in how engaging and how much fun it is to roleplay working in one.

 

To give you some insight in how it all works behind the scenes with restaurant rp, I’ll give a brief runthrough.

 

I was given my restaurant and after everything was mapped, the first thing I had to do was set up a small handbook for employees. This handbook explains the different roles in the restaurant and how these roles work together, shaping up into the kind of restaurant I wanted it to be. For my restaurant, I kept things simple so the front of the house is composed of solely hosts and waiters (these are servers too). 

 

Hosts welcome in the guests, assign tables and let the waiters know which tables need service. To keep things clear for everybody the host usually assigns guests to tables close to each other to keep the work area for the waiters small. I usually have one host per opening.

 

Once the guests are seated the waiters come into play. They give out menus, take orders for drinks, appetizers, mains and eventually desserts and process everything to the kitchen. Since a restaurant script doesn’t exist on World, we are forced to rely on a discord text channel where we post the table number and order (you literally CAN’T work without this) and update the orders when more is ordered. Working as a waiter in a restaurant on World is a very time-consuming process, because front of house roleplay requires constant attention, engagement and being able to handle multiple tables at once. This is why you need at least two waiters, MINIMUM, but at least three is preferred for everybody to have fun and to keep everybody sane.

 

Now the kitchen comes into play. In my restaurant, I usually operate the kitchen alone or with another line cook. Kitchen roleplay is different in the way that when it’s a busy opening, I can keep my roleplay simple and general so I can keep an eye on the rest of the opening too. When it’s not busy, I can go more in-depth with my roleplay because there’s less pressure on the front of house staff.

 

All-in-all, for a ‘fun’ opening you will need AT LEAST 5 other players (1x host, 3x waiters, 1x line cook) and this is where the first struggles arise.

 

Ever since I owned my restaurant there has been one major cloud over my roleplay, which is finding the suitable people to roleplay with. I started out by paying 8k per hour for staff, which at the time was competitive pay. This includes 4k startshift money so I paid 4k myself. I constantly pushed ads on Facebrowser (boosted) and advertised in game too. The response varied, there were days where people responded and there were days, sometimes weeks, where nobody seemed interested.

 

Once I did think I found the suitable person, I interviewed them, ran them through the process of an opening and helped them set up. This process takes about an hour, hour and a half so you’re investing a lot of time in newcomers so they’re not overwhelmed by an opening and so it still seems interesting to them.

 

And don’t get me wrong, I have had a lot of fun doing so and I’ve managed to meet a great deal of people who were genuinely interested in the roleplay and I’m very thankful to them, because when you can have a normal opening, restaurant roleplay is incredibly fun and engaging!

 

However, the majority of people I interviewed either never showed up again, or they come to one opening and disappear. This can be very demotivating to look for people since you’re investing all this time and effort into them for them to simply stay away. And this is IF you manage to find somebody interested in the roleplay.

 

The amount of people you need for a fun opening compared to the amount of response you get to the ads is very difficult. It also becomes more difficult when you have some people in your discord to roleplay with in the restaurant but you have to plan an opening. People have lives, people have other roleplay going on their characters or play on different characters, so people are not always available, which is understandable. 

 

If I try to plan an opening on Friday, person A or person B can’t make it and if I plan an opening on Sunday, person C or person D can’t make it. This makes planning openings with the limited amount of interested people extra challenging too, because you REALLY need players to run this type of business, you simply can’t NPC anything. Also take into consideration that when you finally picked a day and time to open, people might still not be able to make it due to real life getting in the way, or something else related to their characters. This happens a lot too, but is also very understandable because people simply have lives too. It just makes planning openings even more difficult.

 

I’ve managed to have a lot of openings in my time of owning the restaurant and the majority of them were very fun and allowed my character and other characters to develop, but it is very time-consuming when you’re constantly looking for people and trying to pick the right day to open, because as invested as I am in World, I also have a fulltime job and (a bit of) a social life next to it. So what do I do to make things easier?

 

First thing I’ve been doing is increasing the hourly pay to 12,5k per hour from 8k per hour, which is (slightly?) above competitive to make the roleplay attractive and rewarding for people. But even with 12,5k per hour, it’s extremely hard to find the right people. This also includes the 4k startshift money. However, when you take into consideration that you need at least 5 people for a good opening, this can become a very costly endeavor.

 

Let’s say you have a three hour opening. The /openbusiness money you get is 40k, max, which you only get if openings are busy. I haven’t really had problems reaching this limit, so it’s not really the issue here. Other than that I get 12k startshift money from the 3 hour opening. This adds up to 52k script money.

 

If I have a 3 hour opening, the following amount is what I need to be able to pay employees.

 

5 (employees) x 8500 (hourly pay) x 3 (opening hours) = $127,500.

 

Or

 

4 (employees) x 8500 (hourly pay) x 3 (opening hours) = $102,000

 

So other than the 52k script money I get, I’ll need at least 50k if I have 4 people working and 75,5k if I have 5 people working. This is very hard to get by selling food items because let me tell you, if you charge more than $1,000 for a single food item, people are just not interested. They won’t order it or they’ll start taking things IC and complain about prices. And honestly, the latter always pisses me off because players are very impulsive when they blow a lot money on other things.

 

My character has enough money, so money is not an issue for me. When I’m not roleplaying, I take mapping projects and map apartments and houses for players which earns me enough money to be able to afford my roleplay, because yes, every restaurant opening costs me money, and that’s when I have ENOUGH people to open with. But because I love the roleplay so much, and because it’s so unique and rewarding in terms of roleplay, I don’t care about the costs and I’d rather reward the players who choose to roleplay with me. My character also runs a bakery which doesn’t need as much staff, so the earnings I get from the bakery I can blow on the restaurant again. But not everybody is in the same position as I am. Not everybody has thousands of dollars to blow on restaurant openings and not everybody is willing to put in all the effort to look for people, which is exactly why there are only a limited amount of restaurants around, or why restaurants generally don’t last long and also why there are not really any consistent openings.

 

I hope this clears things up for people and perhaps this gets the ball rolling for solutions. This topic is not a plead for anything. I just wanted to vent because I’ve seen people complain IC and OOC about there not being any restaurants or consistent openings. I know Property Management has funds for unique businesses but they are tied to consistent and regular openings. Money is not the issue for me at this time, it’s about finding the right people and staying motivated to do openings when everything’s so complicated and time-consuming. Because I believe constantly pushing up the hourly pay will not just hurt my business in the long run, but also the competition. It just makes restaurants less and less attractive to operate if the costs are becoming increasingly worse and not everybody who’s interested in starting up a restaurant has thousands of dollars to blow on making it operational.

 

I try to open the restaurant at least once a week and mostly I manage, but sometimes I just can’t because of the reasons mentioned above. I’m still invested in running my restaurant after all this time but I won’t lie that it can also be frustrating at times. The main issue can be described in a single sentence. There’s a demand for restaurant roleplay on the consumer side, but the demand for restaurant roleplay on the employee side is very limited

Edited December 2, 2024 by Blade

[DLimit]

As a person who's ran a whole restaurant for nine months, I find that you're overpaying employees. Minimum wage should be minimum wage, with weekly to monthly bonuses depending on their labor and activity. We use to incentivize increased wages and bonuses depending on their dedication to the company, ensuring that those who would put in the effort would reap the benefits of laboring in the company. These bonuses would either be received on a weekly or monthly basis, and the most dedicated of the employees would receive them.

Sure, you'll struggle to find more employees, but once you find a dedicated base, alongside with some part-time floaters, you should be fine.

Then again, my restaurant did not have a wait staff. Simply 1-2 chefs, and 1-2 cashiers. Use to be able to run the business with 2 other employees, at bare minimum, as a Jamaican restaurant in Davis.

EDIT: $4,000 is treated like minimum wage, but people want 2x-3x the hourly wage. Don't hire these people, it's destroying the server. They want their Pariah overnight so they expect us to pay them 40k an opening.

I'd trade my life to live on this server if I could manipulate employers to pay me 3x above a minimum wage salary for a minimum-waged job. Can't even do that, in real life, without 10 years of strikes and protests. Businesses that are undergoing a deficit aren't running businesses properly, and could be treated like an IC issue. However, to run a restaurant? 100x easier than a night-club. Less coordination required. Employers could always cut the middle-man and remove wait staff if their business model is dysfunctional.

On another note... wait staff, cashiers, and cooks are earning tips on top of their wages. Should be enough. If they don't like it? They wouldn't be hired.

Only reason this becomes an issue is because people are literally permitting poor portrayal of minimum-wage staff by paying them 3x above minimum wage. 

My advice? Follow real life business models. None of them pay their employees above minimum wage, except for a few bouji upper-class restaurants that have professional chefs and serve high-quality trendy tourist-trap-like food items.

Edited December 2, 2024 by DLimit

[Blade]

45 minutes ago, DLimit said:

As a person who's ran a whole restaurant for nine months, I find that you're overpaying employees. Minimum wage should be minimum wage, with weekly to monthly bonuses depending on their labor and activity. We use to incentivize increased wages and bonuses depending on their dedication to the company, ensuring that those who would put in the effort would reap the benefits of laboring in the company. These bonuses would either be received on a weekly or monthly basis, and the most dedicated of the employees would receive them.

Sure, you'll struggle to find more employees, but once you find a dedicated base, alongside with some part-time floaters, you should be fine.

Then again, my restaurant did not have a wait staff. Simply 1-2 chefs, and 1-2 cashiers. Use to be able to run the business with 2 other employees, at bare minimum, as a Jamaican restaurant in Davis.
 

All due respect but these are just two very different concepts entirely. One relying on quick counter service while the other relies on constant staff attention, engagement and service, which is exactly why you can't have an opening with simply 1 waiter. It's apples and oranges.

 

 

45 minutes ago, DLimit said:

EDIT: $4,000 is treated like minimum wage, but people want 2x-3x the hourly wage. Don't hire these people, it's destroying the server. They want their Pariah overnight so they expect us to pay them 40k an opening.

I'd trade my life to live on this server if I could manipulate employers to pay me 3x above a minimum wage salary for a minimum-waged job. Can't even do that, in real life, without 10 years of strikes and protests. Businesses that are undergoing a deficit aren't running businesses properly, and could be treated like an IC issue. However, to run a restaurant? 100x easier than a night-club. Less coordination required. Employers could always cut the middle-man and remove wait staff if their business model is dysfunctional.

On another note... wait staff, cashiers, and cooks are earning tips on top of their wages. Should be enough. If they don't like it? They wouldn't be hired.

Only reason this becomes an issue is because people are literally permitting poor portrayal of minimum-wage staff by paying them 3x above minimum wage. 

My advice? Follow real life business models. None of them pay their employees above minimum wage, except for a few bouji upper-class restaurants that have professional chefs and serve high-quality trendy tourist-trap-like food items.

 

Like I explained, I'm already struggling to find staff with my current wages, let alone the struggles when I go even lower. I do have a good base of people, and I've also stated that I've hired plenty of people in the past who stuck with me for a while, but it doesn't take away the fact that they can't always make it to openings because they have other things going on in their lives too, or that they're simply seeking other avenues of roleplay after a while too. It's just the struggle of needing enough people during an opening to stay sane. 

And to say that running nightclubs is 100x harder than running a restaurant is a very unfair statement considering the fact the entire nightlife in World is dominated by nightclubs and bars, with little to no alternatives. I'm not saying running a nightclub is easy, because I'm well aware it's not, but saying it's very easy to run a restaurant when we have two very different concepts in mind isn't fair in the slightest.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Blade

[DLimit]

9 minutes ago, Blade said:

All due respect but these are just two very different concepts entirely. One relying on quick counter service while the other relies on constant staff attention, engagement and service, which is exactly why you can't have an opening with simply 1 waiter. It's apples and oranges.

 

 

 

Like I explained, I'm already struggling to find staff with my current wages, let alone the struggles when I go even lower. I do have a good base of people, and I've also stated that I've hired plenty of people in the past who stuck with me for a while, but it doesn't take away the fact that they can't always make it to openings because they have other things going on in their lives too. It's just the struggle of needing enough people during an opening to stay sane. 

And to say that running nightclubs is 100x harder than running a restaurant is a very unfair statement considering the fact the entire nightlife in World is dominated by nightclubs and bars, with little to no alternatives.

Except nightclubs have to hire overpriced bartenders (2), DJs (1), and security (2-4), while coordinating with all of them to log on. Need more than 1 security agent and at least 2 bartenders, alongside with a DJ to get it running. Many clubs don't earn 4K an hour, either, as they rely on entrance fees and drink sales to maximize income. Restaurants? 4K paycheques, which is what you should be paying your employees alongside with weekly to monthly bonuses. Clubs and bars don't earn the hourly 4K check, but they compensate for it as drinks are higher in demand. They would have to sell 8K worth of beverages, an hour, to even pay their two bartenders 4k an hour.

" why you can't have an opening with simply 1 waiter."

You more than likely can.  Will it be harder? Yes. However, that's the sacrifice needed to generate income as a business. I've never had this issue. Not once. I've rejected new potential employees simply because they demanded more than what was offered during the hiring process. We've had to deal with issues involving being understaffed, and took that ICly, and we've also handled situations in-which we had zero customers. Never had a deficit, though. Are your restaurants packed to the brim, every single day? Are you over-staffing and over-paying employees? Think like a business man/woman.

 

P.S. You said "restaurants". If it's only an issue with restaurants that have wait staff, then it's an issue with restaurants with wait staff, not restaurants that don't have wait staff. Not all restaurants require wait staff. Many places have bartenders being waitresses in it as small mom & pop shops. Adjust your business model.

Edited December 2, 2024 by DLimit

[Blade]

1 minute ago, DLimit said:

" why you can't have an opening with simply 1 waiter."

You more than likely can.  Will it be harder? Yes. However, that's the sacrifice needed to generate income as a business. I've never had this issue. Not once. I've rejected new potential employees simply because they demanded more than what was offered during the hiring process. We've had to deal with issues involving being understaffed, and took that ICly, and we've also handled situations in-which we had zero customers. Never had a deficit, though. Are your restaurants packed to the brim, every single day? Are you over-staffing and over-paying employees? Think like a business man/woman.

Again, you have a very different concept in mind. I'm telling you, you CANNOT run a proper restaurant on this server with one waiter when you have 4-8 tables to tend to at a time, sometimes more, and requiring constant attention. It's not as simple as walking up to the counter to order food and sit down somewhere as a guest without needing anything else from the staff. You have to greet them, take orders for drinks, appetizers, mains and desserts, deliver all these separately,  check up on them to refill drinks, check up on them to see how everything's going, handle potential issues and eventually handle the bill. You can't sit there and say you can pull it off with one waiter, because it's apparent you haven't roleplayed in a similar setting.

[Parade]

I think there should be a little more incentive for actual legal roleplayers who aren't involved in any criminal enterprise.

 

Some business owners like their quality roleplay and reputation over quantity. Those people are actively worked against by the systems mechanics as it is. No one ends up working for them because it's actually work with very little reward. Be that monetary or otherwise.

 

Most people just like doing cops or robber stuff as it more fun and potentially may pay better.

 

From an IC perspective making actual legal business more profitable decreases crime as people don't have to turn to criminal activity to make money.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Parade

[DLimit]

1 minute ago, Blade said:

Again, you have a very different concept in mind. I'm telling you, you CANNOT run a proper restaurant on this server with one waiter when you have 4-8 tables to tend to at a time, sometimes more, and requiring constant attention. It's not as simple as walking up to the counter to order food and sit down somewhere as a guest without needing anything else from the staff. You have to greet them, take orders for drinks, appetizers, mains and desserts, deliver all these separately,  check up on them to refill drinks, check up on them to see how everything's going, handle potential issues and eventually handle the bill. You can't sit there and say you can pull it off with one waiter, because it's apparent you haven't roleplayed in a similar setting.

Then, don't say restaurants. Say restaurants with wait staff. Running a restaurant is one of the easiest things to run on a server. I've ran restaurants, bars, psychic shops, electronic stores, and a laundromat. The restaurant was even easier than the bar due to the 4k hourly paychecks, while attracting more customers than a laundromat, psychic shop, and laundromat. 6 tables? 2 wait staff members. That's 2 per 3-4 tables. Easily done. People, in the real world, wait 3-6 tables, on average. Don't pay them 8.5k an hour and you'll never have an issue with losing money.

[Blade]

1 minute ago, DLimit said:

Then, don't say restaurants. Say restaurants with wait staff. Running a restaurant is one of the easiest things to run on a server. I've ran restaurants, bars, psychic shops, electronic stores, and a laundromat. The restaurant was even easier than the bar due to the 4k hourly paychecks, while attracting more customers than a laundromat, psychic shop, and laundromat. 6 tables? 2 wait staff members. That's 2 per 3-4 tables. Easily done. People, in the real world, wait 3-6 tables, on average. Don't pay them 8.5k an hour and you'll never have an issue with losing money.

If you took the time to read my entire post then you know what concept I'm talking about because I literally explained the roles at the restaurant. Plus, I've made it very clear that I'm not complaining about money, I'm saying that it's difficult to find enough people for this particular concept, no matter what you pay.

[mrtnzi]

In GTAW, wages need to be high because you're expecting people to do a potentially highly stressful job in a virtual restaurant. @Blade's wages seem fair to me. I run a business aswell, and if I could pay people 20k per hour I'd do it, because I appreciate them showing up and working. I have less money though so I can't go negative every opening.

 

I did a single shift as waiter in a restaurant and it felt so stressful that I didn't want to do it again, ever. Even with a custom app that simplified things. It was stressful, lots of people constantly coming in, and it dragged on for 3 hours. And I got paid 16k in total. Felt like I just got scammed.

 

1 hour ago, Blade said:

They won’t order it or they’ll start taking things IC and complain about prices. And honestly, the latter always pisses me off because players are very impulsive when they blow a lot money on other things.

 

This always irks me so much lol, people suddenly act as if we're not in an extremely overinflated economy when they go to a restaurant. 

7 minutes ago, DLimit said:

" why you can't have an opening with simply 1 waiter."

You more than likely can.  Will it be harder? Yes.

This is straight up mean to the one waiter you're hiring. They're people who want to have fun, too, and being torn by new tables constantly being seated and wanting to order and having to serve other tables food makes your head combust.

 

 

I think restaurants need a lot of script support to function. Add in the ability to NPC the cooking process because it's the less social aspect - and I'd wager also the one that's the hardest to find employees for. Legit - let it be done with a simple /do so that you can lower your costs and perhaps work the front yourself (Not saying that there should never be chefs, if someone wants to RP it, let them). I also think that restaurants should get a higher government bonus from LFM, because I don't think it's right that you invest so much time and effort into running a business in GTAW, generating roleplay for a LOT of people, only to lose money from it.

 

 

Restaurants are one of my favorite places to go to for whatever purposes, but it's really hard to find ones open at any times outside weekend peak times. I'd love if some steps were taken to make it easier to run restaurants. Finding people to work in your GTAW business is soulcrushing.

[DLimit]

3 minutes ago, Parade said:

I think there should be a little more incentive for actual legal roleplayers who aren't involved in any criminal enterprise.

 

Some business owners like their quality roleplay and reputation over quantity. Those people are actively worked against by the systems mechanics as it is. No one ends up working for them because it's actually work with very little reward. Be that monetary or otherwise.

 

Most people just like doing cops or robber stuff as it more fun and potentially may pay better.

I've RP'd them all, and I've accumulated more income as a business owner than my 5 years on this server as a full-time criminal or SD member.