San Andreas Highway Patrol v2

[radreaper100]

It’s that time again, keep it civil please.

 

For a long time, years even, this community has constantly consolidated around asking for a state police agency and with SASP and the Parks Bureau gone this has left a pretty big vacuum for this faction with the capability to aggressively crack down upon one of the biggest issues that plague the server and have for a long time: traffic enforcement, to take its place.
 

With the most recent updates on the server supporting VIN numbers on vehicles and license plate theft, as well as stricter laws being introduced by the legislature to condemn street racing and poor driving habits, an opportunity presents itself for de facto agency to step into the spotlight finally in a limited capacity, at least to begin with and that is the San Andreas Highway Patrol.

 

SAHP for a lot of us is a pipedream; it’s aesthetically defined from the current slew of agencies (navy, tan/green) with their tan/tan uniforms and black fleet with a legendary reputation in the law enforcement community, the culture surrounding the SAHP is extremely unique and not one you’ll find in either of the agencies we currently have now as well and we must remember that the chief goal at the end of the day is to portray and explore concepts we may not otherwise be able to, and the state trooper experience is one of those that is in high demand yet sordidly lacking here of all places.

 

Other GTAW communities likewise have it within their purview and manage to maintain it alongside their much smaller playerbases in conjunction with the other agencies they have and with us being a server that regularly tallies over 900 players on average per night during the peak hours surely wouldn’t shift the meta dramatically to allow people to explore a concept they’ve desperately wanted to.

 

I believe SAHP would be a fantastic addition to the law enforcement community and complete the trifecta of what we have now, as well as providing a more comprehensive solution in-character to aggressively targeting traffic infractions, patrolling the highway system, acting as a force multiplier in pursuits and investigating car theft rings. They could also have the added ability to provide protection and security to state government officials and state buildings as they do presently IRL. And yes I know H platoon exists but the actual executive protection of the capitol and state officials is left to CHP in the real world. 
 

[bonedead]

First week will be full of hype and it’ll die in two. It’s been discussed hundreds of times before, and declined time and time again. While your points certainly are valid, realistically, I can’t see an overwhelming interest in this when LSSD/LSPD traffic units exist. 

 

-1. 

Edited December 1, 2024 by bonedead

[greatlights2]

Yeah +1

[Red Reika]

I am always in for new, different and optional groups and venues for roleplay, so I am absolutely in favor of this. If it were up to me, we'd still have both, SASP and SAHP alongside SD and PD. More factions, more options, more RP culture for people to choose.

However, since this is a discussion, I'll ask the golden question that everybody really truly will:

In the situation SAHP does get added; what would be, de facto and objectively, their authority, curfew of operations and jurisdiction? What would they do and what would they not do? These are questions that people always have, and the core of the confusion because a lot of people assume a lot of things about it. So what would be the objective, punctual answer to that?

Edited December 1, 2024 by Red Reika

[Timzii]

You've already been given an answer for this specific suggestion, no? Sharvit's answer sums it up pretty well. Looks cool on paper, but it'll be boring and niche as hell.

 

[Anders]

No. This dosnt need a new faction, just join shefiffs.

[Keane]

I'll re-state what I've said on previous posts about law enforcement factions in particular, not just SAHP. An LEO faction needs a purpose to exist, and needs to be self-sufficient in its assigned purpose so the members don't get bored and go and do something else. This is what made SAPR/SASP go off the deep end and eventually get shut down. 

LSPD and LSSD. Primary patrol factions to handle the bulk of general law enforcement work, as well as provide specialized units equipped to tackle everyday occurrences such as investigations and high-risk situations. There's never going to a lack of things for these factions to do, and they sufficiently cover their jobs.

SanFire. A great example of a niche LEO faction that has a great job sticking to the purpose it was created for, and that's investigating fires. You never see them asking to do anything beyond their scope.

DAO Investigators. While much smaller and more niche, they specifically operate within the boundaries of the District Attorney's Office and you never see complaints about them anywhere.

SADCR. An LEO faction that primarily oversees the prison, with specific units permitted to operate outside the prison (Parole, OCS, K9). SADCR covers the prison well, with faction members losing their ability to operate outside the prison if they do not prioritize their time within it. If you have a parole character for example, it cannot be more active than your prison character. This makes the faction stick to its purpose.

SAPR/SASP. A faction created to enforce the hunting laws when the new script was brought in. With no hunters and nothing to do in the parks, the members wanted to do other things. This resulted in the faction forcing itself to be the  primary law enforcement agency outside of the city of Los Santos, with only a lack of oversight from LFM being the only thing that properly allowed this. Once the issue became more apparent, the faction was asked to return to its niche which resulted in it going inactive. An attempted merge with the LSSD failed.

SAHP. A faction created to enforce laws on the highways (highways are dead). Other functions can include acting as state police in line with real life, but any state police functions are already covered. LSPD has H Platoon for dignitary protection. Investigations into vehicle-related crime such as car theft and street racing are already conducted by the LSPD and LSSD. When the highways are dead (and this will never change), this faction will follow the same path and try to force themselves into other niches and piss off existing factions the same way SASP did with the LSSD. There will be nothing that will make SAHP stick to the highways and if the faction is given more breathing room, it will constantly clash with other factions.

New LEO factions also need experienced members to help them get up to speed, as well as to train newer members. The major issue SASP suffered from was that it faced the impossible task of bringing their members up to the same level as the LSPD and LSSD. You simply cannot face the same level of situations you can learn from in any niche LEO faction. If a faction is to have a patrol function and isn't response/investigation based (SanFire, DAO), then you need to go all in so its members can reach the same level of experience, and sufficient training can be provided. It's impossible to train someone to a similar level without giving them consistent situations to learn from.

[luna~]

Also mirroring what I said the last time this came up, a lot of it seems to just be calling for a Highway Patrol to simply chase the aesthetics of it, not the practicality of it. That is a very skewed approach to wanting the agency/faction to exist, and would absolutely be it's downfall if it were ran on that belief. In fact, it would likely not even take off if that is the case.

 

The last post from Keane sums it up very nicely. 

[zaXer.]

10 minutes ago, Keane said:

I'll re-state what I've said on previous posts about law enforcement factions in particular, not just SAHP. An LEO faction needs a purpose to exist, and needs to be self-sufficient in its assigned purpose so the members don't get bored and go and do something else. This is what made SAPR/SASP go off the deep end and eventually get shut down. 

LSPD and LSSD. Primary patrol factions to handle the bulk of general law enforcement work, as well as provide specialized units equipped to tackle everyday occurrences such as investigations and high-risk situations. There's never going to a lack of things for these factions to do, and they sufficiently cover their jobs.

SanFire. A great example of a niche LEO faction that has a great job sticking to the purpose it was created for, and that's investigating fires. You never see them asking to do anything beyond their scope.

DAO Investigators. While much smaller and more niche, they specifically operate within the boundaries of the District Attorney's Office and you never see complaints about them anywhere.

SADCR. An LEO faction that primarily oversees the prison, with specific units permitted to operate outside the prison (Parole, OCS, K9). SADCR covers the prison well, with faction members losing their ability to operate outside the prison if they do not prioritize their time within it. If you have a parole character for example, it cannot be more active than your prison character. This makes the faction stick to its purpose.

SAPR/SASP. A faction created to enforce the hunting laws when the new script was brought in. With no hunters and nothing to do in the parks, the members wanted to do other things. This resulted in the faction forcing itself to be the  primary law enforcement agency outside of the city of Los Santos, with only a lack of oversight from LFM being the only thing that properly allowed this. Once the issue became more apparent, the faction was asked to return to its niche which resulted in it going inactive. An attempted merge with the LSSD failed.

SAHP. A faction created to enforce laws on the highways (highways are dead). Other functions can include acting as state police in line with real life, but any state police functions are already covered. LSPD has H Platoon for dignitary protection. Investigations into vehicle-related crime such as car theft and street racing are already conducted by the LSPD and LSSD. When the highways are dead (and this will never change), this faction will follow the same path and try to force themselves into other niches and piss off existing factions the same way SASP did with the LSSD. There will be nothing that will make SAHP stick to the highways and if the faction is given more breathing room, it will constantly clash with other factions.

New LEO factions also need experienced members to help them get up to speed, as well as to train newer members. The major issue SASP suffered from was that it faced the impossible task of bringing their members up to the same level as the LSPD and LSSD. You simply cannot face the same level of situations you can learn from in any niche LEO faction. If a faction is to have a patrol function and isn't response/investigation based (SanFire, DAO), then you need to go all in so its members can reach the same level of experience, and sufficient training can be provided. It's impossible to train someone to a similar level without giving them consistent situations to learn from.

I mainly agree but not with the last paragraph.

You cannot expect all factions to have the same level of experienced players, same training and same roleplay qualities. Factions on their own are very niche and require a specific set of players, I also believe that factions recruit members based on what they are.

Highway patrol shouldn't and I dont see the need to be same-experience and training level compared to LSPD and SD, if they handle only a niche thing. You dont need SAHP to be trained in breaching doors, K9 handling, advanced firearms, detectives within and so on If  they handle mainly traffic law violations and if they start investigating car crashes (and therefore finally start roleplaying crashes, because right now majority of skipping is because you gotta wait for someone from PD/SD to come, neither of which want to deal with this), they'd have a niche thing that they are really only specialized in doing that specific thing. A mass of employees isnt required either for something of such operations, similar to SFM. Generally SAHP can e be used as an entry point to law enforcement, learn more about it, get experience, then if you wanna go robbery busting, SWAT, detective, transfer over to PD/SD? 
Like, come on ,this cannot be compared to SASP. SASP was a preset death and like how many people actually wanna roleplay in the forests, come on? SAHP on the other side if tasked with investigating car crashes and handling car crashes has a lot to do because crashes happen literally every minute. 

Edited December 1, 2024 by zaXer.

[Keane]

13 minutes ago, zaXer. said:

I mainly agree but not with the last paragraph.

You cannot expect all factions to have the same level of experienced players, same training and same roleplay qualities. Factions on their own are very niche and require a specific set of players, I also believe that factions recruit members based on what they are.

Highway patrol shouldn't and I dont see the need to be same-experience and training level compared to LSPD and SD, if they handle only a niche thing. If  they handle mainly traffic law violations and if they start investigating car crashes (and therefore finally start roleplaying crashes, because right now majority of skipping is because you gotta wait for someone from PD/SD to come, neither of which want to deal with this), they'd have a niche thing that they are really only specialized in doing that specific thing. A mass of employees isnt required either for something of such operations, similar to SFM. Generally SAHP can e be used as an entry point to law enforcement, learn more about it, get experience, then if you wanna go robbery busting, SWAT, detective, transfer over to PD/SD? 
Like, come on ,this cannot be compared to SASP. SASP was a preset death and like how many people actually wanna roleplay in the forests, come on? SAHP on the other side if tasked with investigating car crashes and handling car crashes has a lot to do because crashes happen literally every minute. 

The point I was making was that the SAHP will run out of stuff to do, and eventually venture out to do more in the exact same way that SASP did. So if it does do more than traffic stops on highways and investigating crashes on highways (where there are very very few players), it needs to be at the same standard as the LSPD or LSSD when it comes to training and experience. It needs to be able to handle any situations it comes across well, or the players on the other end will be met with a bad experience. We already see lots of complaints about the LSPD and LSSD not handling situations correctly.

If you picked out an SADCR parole agent, and ask them to investigate a homicide they stumbled across, they would not be able to handle it well. But parole agents don't stumble across situations like that often as they stick to their assigned purpose and focus on parolees. Any faction with a patrol function will naturally stumble across complex situations more often, and as a result require a level of training to match it.

I stand by what I said in another thread and say that the people that want highway patrol should get together in both the LSPD and LSSD traffic units. Run traffic enforcement on the highways and do some joint operations. Get some RP going on the highways and see how active they are. You'll quickly find out just how dead they are, and how bored you'll be. I'll gladly be proven wrong by someone in either LSPD or LSSD leadership that can share traffic stop statistics and show how often traffic stops happen on highways. I mentioned highways over and over because that's what SAHP will focus on. Sure, traffic investigations might keep them busy but how many people enjoy doing that? LSPD and LSSD members can tell you how hard it is to get someone to investigate a crash, because people don't enjoy doing them. I know I hated doing them.

The idea that a new faction with a different culture due to what the faction is based on in real life is always thrown around. I'm all for accurately portraying agencies and providing variety, but it's not the strong argument people make it out to be. 

EDIT: I'll also reply to the part where you state that it can be used as an entry level position to join PD or SD. I don't know if you've handled recruitment or training in any faction, but it's a lot of work. There's nothing worse than helping someone learn how your specific faction works for a few weeks, only for them to use that experience and go elsewhere. Factions hate it for this reason. If you join a faction, you join it for what that faction currently does. You don't join it and use it as assistance to go do something else.

Edited December 1, 2024 by Keane