Roleplay: It's not about how you do it, it's about if you do it at all.

[Awucard]

27 minutes ago, Mistery14 said:

 

Honestly, the action > reaction > script formula has worked extremely well no matter what RP servers I've played, no matter the amount of playerbase, map size, whatever. It's all about implementing it correctly through visibility (written guide), repeated exposure (other players), and admin enforcement (admins who follow said guide to enforce those specific standards, not their individual ones). You can take anyone with no RP experience, plop them in a RP game, and teach them how to roleplay properly in minutes with a concise, and properly written guide that explains it when they join, and they'll grasp it and learn as they go, so long as you provide them with a baseline to work with in the first place.

 

If you don't tell players what you expect from them in terms of RP standards then they will apply their own standards, for better or worse.

 

About your examples:

 

 

The player would see it on their screen, the character would not, and the reason allowing the player to explain through a /me on how their character would not see the attack matters. Because it provides both parties with roleplay, context for the roleplay, and material to create more RP around that initial interaction.

 

Otherwise, you get situations like this:

> Joe makes use of the tackle script on a biker.

> Biker gets up scriptly.

> **Joe pins the biker down.

> Biker scriptly punches Joe without /me, Joe is downed into injured-state.

** Biker knocks out Joe.

> /b argument ensues.

> Report is made for powergaming.

 

 

The correct way would be:

> **Joe tackles the biker and pins them to the ground.

> **The biker falls to the ground and is pinned by Joe.

>  Joe uses the tackle script onto the biker, and the biker does not get back up, because it's previously established through /me that they're IC'ly pinned down.

 

Do you see the issue on the first example I gave? Sure, /mes were typed, but in complete incorrect order, the situation is messy, and takes time to resolve for both admins and players.

 

Notice how in the second example, each player were given the time to write their /mes which gave them the time to explain what each were doing, the situation did not change, the biker character was always going to be surprised, and tackled. But both players got to roleplay that interaction. Not only did it take less time, but it also streamlines the interaction, it's fluid.

 

That's why I believe in the action > reaction > script formula.

 

 

This situation is cut-and-dry. Character A shoots Character B in the head from behind, Character B dies no matter what. The only reaction to it is death. But, why shouldn't it be important for Character B to have their death roleplayed by their player even if the outcome is the same?

 

Assuming this isn't a spur-of-the-moment shooting in a gang/crowded area, where cops/opps are most likely to respond in seconds, then yeah. Why not take the time to RP it out? I'd say that it should apply, so long as the surrounding allows for it. If not then maybe both players will understand that it's not the best for the attacker to stick around and wait for a /me and they'll mutually accept it.

 

It's more of a common courtesy thing, than a requirement in each and every scenario. Firefights are a good exception due to their nature, but the above can absolutely be roleplayed if the surroundings allow for it.

 

I appreicate the perspective and I lean in the direction to agree with you. I think Powergaming definitely needs to be more thoroughly examined and warrants additional discussion on this specific topic in general. Perhaps you could also make a Rules Suggestion post, if one was not already made?

 

1 hour ago, Xantholic said:

The way I see it, if you initiate combat with a /me, you're good to immediately initiate it, i'd never complain about that. 

My character once got set up by a girl from an enemy gang, he was attacked with a single /me without giving me time to react, but i didn't care, my character didn't expect it, so i let it play out as it happened.

 

People need to understand that if someone initiates PVP on u, they can't really be expected to wait for u to respond. If I RP shooting u for example, what am i supposed to do, wait for u to type /me gets shot, when i could have already shot your character and ran away to avoid your guys who immediately started shooting back at me?

 

These kinds of situations happen in seconds, not minutes, and that's the way it should play out in game too.

 

I also understand your side of things as well, but I personally am usually here for the roleplay then the actual prospect of needing to shoot or reaction script wise. Finding a balance is important in all of this.

Edited October 31 by Awucard
Added more because I derp and hit submit too early :nerd:

[Mistery14]

6 minutes ago, Awucard said:

 

I appreicate the perspective and I lean in the direction to agree with you. I think Powergaming definitely needs to be more thoroughly examined and warrants additional discussion on this specific topic in general. Perhaps you could also make a Rules Suggestion post, if one was not already made?

 

I appreciate it, I think a rule suggestion wouldn't be too bad of an idea to make. If someone doesn't beat me to it then I might.

[Zone Gang General]

Yeah nobody's waiting for a reply to start a fight especially with some of you slow ass typers. Just type the /me and start attacking me, I can read and I'll be able to react in time 9 times out of 10 since the situation is probably already clearly heading that way anyway. The roleplay is, at that point, just a point of common courtesy to let you know we're going to get down with the script.

[Mistery14]

32 minutes ago, Zone Gang General said:

Yeah nobody's waiting for a reply to start a fight

 

The only true statement I think.

 

Quote

especially with some of you slow ass typers. Just type the /me and start attacking me, I can read and I'll be able to react in time 9 times out of 10 since the situation is probably already clearly heading that way anyway. The roleplay is, at that point, just a point of common courtesy to let you know we're going to get down with the script.

 

The rest can be summed up to: That's why it's called roleplaying. It's not about being able to react in time or being fast, because it's not Escape From Tarkov. Actually, even EFT has the decency to be challenging and engaging, and rewarding in combat, GTA:W combat just falls flat on its ass because of GTA V's janky ass fighting system, I'll never get why people are so into it.

 

In the context of an RP server where 90% of people aren't even good at combat, then I'm starting to question whether reacting fast enough involves actual skill or if it feels like skill because nobody is really good at it, plus, they're typing. So you're essentially maxing out your HP with drugs, getting a 30k brass knuckles, hyping yourself up only to be hitting a stationary target for a good 2 seconds before they fight back. - And when they do fight back, the only valid strategy is to either lag yourself, or spin in circles.

[Zone Gang General]

1 hour ago, Mistery14 said:

 

The rest can be summed up to: That's why it's called roleplaying.

Yeah, and we do it in GTA, where there are fighting mechanics that we can use, which, janky as they are, are better than spending 5 minutes typing out a fight where everyone turns into Jon Jones trying to win. This isn't Habbo Hotel.

 

Trying to reinvent the wheel is frankly completely unnecessary, it's worked fine since ye olde LSRP days.

Edited November 1 by Zone Gang General

[Engelbert]

2 minutes ago, Zone Gang General said:

Yeah, and we do it in GTA, where there are fighting mechanics that we can use, which, janky as they are, are better than spending 5 minutes typing out a fight where everyone turns to Jon Jones trying to win. This isn't Habbo Hotel.

 

Trying to reinvent the wheel is frankly completely unnecessary, it's worked fine since ye olde LSRP days.

Spamming the punch button, running around like an idiot and snorting coke before a scrap is not rp.

Edited November 1 by Engelbert

[Zone Gang General]

1 hour ago, Engelbert said:

Spamming the punch button, running around like an idiot and snorting coke before a scrap is not rp.

Running around and doing drugs without rp is against the rules, sounds like you're just bad at roleplaying or surround yourself with bad rpers, sorry.

 

refer back to not reinventing the wheel.

Edited November 1 by Zone Gang General

[Engelbert]

2 minutes ago, Zone Gang General said:

Running around and doing drugs without rp is against the rules, sounds like you're just bad at roleplaying or surround yourself with bad rpers, sorry.

 

refer back to not reinventing the wheel.

I was talking about fights here, refer to what I actually said, thank you. What I said, that many people are actually trying to win the scripted fight, instead of rping their character.

Edited November 1 by Engelbert

[Xantholic]

8 hours ago, v_v said:

 

i think shooting is the one time where not waiting on a reaction from the opposing player is okay

 

fighting is a whole different thing though. for one its very contextual, for example my character keeps a lot of distance between himself and the people he doesnt know... but that isn't ever taken into account and a common occurrence is somebody ctrl+ving a pre-written action then running over to me and crashing out, making running away the only option. just results in this ugly performance where you get chased around the room by somebody spamming punches.

 

if you care so much about the script advantage of a surprise attack then just hit them once or twice and square up to let them respond before you both engage in mutual combat lol. jumping somebody as a mob is entirely different though and is generally much more acceptable.

Are they actually ctrl + v'ing emotes, or are you just assuming they are? It's a common thing to say 'oh, they copied and pasted that.' but there's very rarely any proof, usually it's just a cop out.

 

And sure, your character keeps their distance from people, but at the end of the day, if somebody wants to get to you, there's really not a lot you can do. I'm the same way IRL, but I've been approached and punched before by people. It's generally hard to avoid a punch, especially from somebody who wants to beat your ass.

 

Instead of running around the room, just swing back.

 

9 hours ago, Mistery14 said:

But waiting for someone to type just so I can punch first to win some laggy fist fight on GTA World where the main tactic is to run in circles is just.. Yeah, whatever floats people's boats I guess.

You'll find that only dogshit rpers (who are usually lost causes) do the whole running in circles thing, same with tackling during brawls, it's heavily frowned upon by most illegal rpers who actually care about quality roleplay. Me personally, if I start swinging on ur char, I'm staying in the same spot and swinging until one of our asses goes down. Usually these 'circling' tactics are used by people who don't care too much about the rp scene at all and just want to win the brawl. I've lost so many brawls willingly by staying in the same spot and swinging, and frankly, I'm proud of that fact because I know my roleplay's not trash and that I gave the other player a fair chance to win without trying to lag my way in to a win, which i could very, very easily do considering my horrible ping.

 

9 hours ago, Mistery14 said:

The problem is when people apply that outside of PVP gunfights. I have no problem with what GTA World established for that because it makes sense for firefights, but not the rest.

It makes perfect sense in my personal opinion, because as I said, there's not a whole lot most average people can do about being punched other than well, being punched. Waiting for responses, while it sounds good on paper, just isn't going to happen unfortunately. This system has existed since LSRP, if you initiate combat with a /me, you should be able to initiate script combat, response times just drag on scenes for longer than they need to go on.

 

Another server, STRP (A red dead roleplay server) introduced a command called /cme, which is an emote that initiates combat, and after a /cme is posted, no response is required and both individuals can initiate combat. It was a very good idea and is honestly something that I think would help solve the issue that people have with response times on GTA:W.

Edited November 1 by Xantholic

[Mistery14]

9 hours ago, Zone Gang General said:

Yeah, and we do it in GTA, where there are fighting mechanics that we can use, which, janky as they are, are better than spending 5 minutes typing out a fight where everyone turns into Jon Jones trying to win. This isn't Habbo Hotel.

 

Trying to reinvent the wheel is frankly completely unnecessary, it's worked fine since ye olde LSRP days.

 

Wait, wait, wait.

 

But that's absolutely not the point of this thread. I'm not asking for RP fights? Nobody wants to reinvent the wheel here, or get entirely /me fights that last for hours. This would never happen here and I'm not trying to change that. Even I know that.

 

The point is to get a simple:

 

/me action

/me reaction

when people interact with each other. Nothing else.

 

Because right now the standard is to write a /me action without letting the other party react after. And by react, I mean letting the player read, and write a response back through /me. Literally all there is to it. It's the simplest you can ask people on a roleplay server to have the common courtesy to allow other players some time. A simple action > reaction > script formula.

Edited November 1 by Mistery14