Rule Contradictions / "Unwritten Rules"

[honey.]

Do you know of any contradictions in the current in-game rules, or, anything that is an "unwritten rule" which you have seen enforced but it is not necessarily in the rules themselves? This can also include rules that are not clear.

 

Please reply with the rule number in question, as well as the issue (contradiction/unwritten rule/vague) with it.

 

This thread is not for new rules suggestions, please make a separate thread for that.

 

[honey.]

 

CURRENT LIST:

Please do not re-suggest anything on this list, or anything that has been suggested previously, please show support with reactions if you agree with anything raised by anyone else.

 

This list is NOT guaranteed changes - this is a list to go through internal discussion for implementation.

Rule 2

• "Drawing a gun to rob someone in the middle of the street/populated area."

  • This rule is somewhat vague in terms of defining what counts as a populated area and what qualifies as 'the middle of the street.' Is the rule referring to locations that would realistically be populated at all times (such as Rockford or Textile City), or areas that are populated by actual players (like events or streets with open businesses nearby)?

    Assuming we are discussing areas that would be realistically populated at all times, does this mean that any attempt to mug someone on the sidewalk or merely showing your firearm to an person who is walking by in an effort to lead them to a more discreet location to actually mug them would be considered a violation of this rule (@Diamond)

• CCTV rules need to be updated to encompass the new script changes @Spring

• Non-rp driving / GTA:O driving @PeopleKind

Rule 4

• "A character may only murder a member of law enforcement when there is an active existing threat to life, or there is indisputable evidence that the stop will lead to life or serious extended imprisonment."
  • What situation falls under the former? Unless a LEO member is fully corrupt to the point they can murder a character, what other situation falls under that? As for the latter, how long is 'serious extended imprisonment'? 2 days? 3? 5? Does it have to be a single or total, guilty, charges? (@Thekillergreece)
• Brass knuckles/box cutters - what kind of weapon are they, when are they a lethal weapon that can be matched with appropriate force needs clarification. @Jeroen
• Business robbery rules - there needs to be specification about robbing specific people within a business area would be or would not be a business robbery.
• Vehicle ramming as being against the rules (is opening a door to knock someone over a ram?) clarification.
• Deathmatching over petty crimes @liq
  • https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/105141-rule-2rule-4-contradiction/

Rule 10

• Temporary /vdup key duplicate thefts, whether this is a rulebreak or just thieving a car.
  • https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/120625-rule-10-vehicle-scams/ @vally

Rule 14

• Name changing my character "Bob Smith" to "Phil Roberts" and then making a new character called "Bob Smith" would constitute an OOC asset transfer between characters. This should be an example in this section, it happens a lot. @Neszy

Rule 15

• Nightsticks large or small melee weapons @Thekillergreece

Rule 17

• "If we could get a solid answer on the "escort ads" issue, that'd be great. Add it as an example if it breaks the rule. There's still too much confusion over this, for whatever reason" @Neszy
• (also rule 10.4) Needs clarification or an addition regarding allowing people to do in-game scams via /ad's when it comes to people trying to get another person's information, for a scam per say. @Jax

Rule 20

• Things that are banned from mentioning that have been announced in announcements and no where else (COVID, Ukraine conflict etc). @Alyx

Rule 21

• What is a PK clarification @creature

 

 

Rule N/A

• Shootings within an open business (see Neszy's post: https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/127352-rule-contradictions-unwritten-rules/?do=findComment&comment=1396484).

.

 

 

[Neszy]

Rule ? - Nowhere do the rules mention that predominantly English should be used in-character and full-blown conversations in foreign languages aren't allowed, but this has been enforced a number of times. Rule 1, I guess, though could go elsewhere.

Rule ? - The inclusion of some IFM faction-specific rules or even a link to the Illegal Faction Information thread may help clarify some things, especially in regards to the dual-faction system. These rules are buried in the thread between bullet points, but the "one unofficial faction, one official faction per character" thing is very much punishable.

Rule ? - There is an extremely common misconception that shootings (or even killings) cannot happen inside open businesses or that permission is required for such a thing. This is instead enforced under powergaming or deathmatching, since it's plain dumb to light someone up in a club with heaps of people around and frequently leads to massive, confusing situations where a mass shooting happens because one idiot lost his head and decided to scroll. Alternatively, these shootings tend to break deathmatching rules since reasoning tends to be bad and/or the aforementioned domino effect of scrolling happens and people end up being killed that shouldn't have been. This "rule", however, is something that's been enforced numerous times despite not existing. Clarifications somewhere would go a long way.

Rule 1 - Very self-explanatory but AFK rules should include "AFK in public", not just "AFK during roleplay situation".

Rule 2 - I can't remember if it used to be in the RoE or not but "appropriate use of force", e.g. not using 4 ARs to kill one guy, still seems to be enforced under PG. There's an example under rule 10 regarding this kinda thing and the "excessive heavy weaponry" is mentioned in the context of block wipes in the RoE, but it doesn't seem to exist elsewhere as a standalone rule (that I can find, at least).

Rule 2 - Unsure if this fits the bill but there are a number of a situations where someone's said they've stashed something on them somewhere and occasionally, while being frisked, screenshots as proof are asked for. This is especially relevant for smuggling things into prison (though usually people are trusted with it). Permissible amounts of items to smuggle in are also an unwritten rule, though I understand that specifying an exact amount is likely to lead to min-maxing.

Rule 7 - "Usage of keybinds, hotkeys, or macros to replace roleplay or give an advantage in a roleplay scene" is incorrect since a single line copy-and-paste (a hotkey) to, for example, scroll while in a vehicle or mug someone has been permitted for a long time.

Rule 10 - "Robbery - "holding up a 24/7, a store, something that involves 'both' of the above" is untrue since robbers aren't permitted to mug anyone in the store they're hitting, customers or clerk(s). The focus on a "24/7" in examples is also misleading; the vast majority of players have no idea that they can hit other stores as long as no excessive planning is required.

Rule 11 - "Destroying another player's property" seemingly only applies to arson, nothing else. Easy clarification here, players often deem "destruction" as vandalism but this isn't the rule's intent.

Rule 14 - Name changing my character "Bob Smith" to "Phil Roberts" and then making a new character called "Bob Smith" would constitute an OOC asset transfer between characters. This should be an example in this section, it happens a lot.

Rule 17 - If we could get a solid answer on the "escort ads" issue, that'd be great. Add it as an example if it breaks the rule. There's still too much confusion over this, for whatever reason.

Edited June 1, 2024 by Neszy

[Thekillergreece]

Rule 4.

Needs a clarification on the following;

• A character may only murder a member of law enforcement when there is an active existing threat to life, or there is indisputable evidence that the stop will lead to life or serious extended imprisonment.

What situation falls under the former? Unless a LEO member is fully corrupt to the point they can murder a character, what other situation falls under that?

As for the latter, how long is 'serious extended imprisonment'? 2 days? 3? 5? Does it have to be a single or total, guilty, charges?

[Fizzlestat]

51 minutes ago, Thekillergreece said:

Rule 4.

Needs a clarification on the following;

• A character may only murder a member of law enforcement when there is an active existing threat to life, or there is indisputable evidence that the stop will lead to life or serious extended imprisonment.

What situation falls under the former? Unless a LEO member is fully corrupt to the point they can murder a character, what other situation falls under that?

As for the latter, how long is 'serious extended imprisonment'? 2 days? 3? 5? Does it have to be a single or total, guilty, charges?

This.

 

This is open to broad interpretation. There are many situations where different admins think different things about what should be considered indisputable evidence to warrant the murder of a cop. While I may think or be taught that something is indisputable enough to warrant this, another administrator may disagree, and there may be a division if multiple eyes are looking down upon it.

A provision of examples or a reword of this sentence to something more conclusive would help this a lot. 

[Jeroen]

4) Deathmatching.

 

Brass Knuckles (which do 22 damage, about as much as some pistols) aren't considered deadly weapons, even though they're designed to maim. Yet, a screwdriver, the weakest melee weapon in the game, is rightfully considered a deadly weapon. If I decide to shoot someone stabbing people with a screwdriver I'm considered a hero. But if I shoot someone for reorganizing someone's face with brass knuckles I'm also considered a hero, but I'm also getting an ajail for it.

 

Obviously what the community thinks brass knuckles to be, and what the staff team thinks brass knuckles to be are two completely different things.

 

 

 

 

 

This also extends to box cutters.

 

[Diamond]

Rule 4: 

• attempting to rob any open business without admin approval.

There's been an enforced rule about not being able to rob people in an open business without admin approval, even if it's by taking them to the bathroom or somewhere that's hidden/less crowded then mug them, though the rule only specifies robbing the business itself. I believe there should be some clarification regarding this rule and whether or not players are allowed to do this without having to /report for approval.

 

Rule 2:

• Drawing a gun to rob someone in the middle of the street/populated area.

This rule is somewhat vague in terms of defining what counts as a populated area and what qualifies as 'the middle of the street.' Is the rule referring to locations that would realistically be populated at all times (such as Rockford or Textile City), or areas that are populated by actual players (like events or streets with open businesses nearby)?

Assuming we are discussing areas that would be realistically populated at all times, does this mean that any attempt to mug someone on the sidewalk or merely showing your firearm to an person who is walking by in an effort to lead them to a more discreet location to actually mug them would be considered a violation of this rule?

[Wiphyz]

13 hours ago, khadijeh. said:

Do you know of any contradictions in the current in-game rules, or, anything that is an "unwritten rule" which you have seen enforced but it is not necessarily in the rules themselves? This can also include rules that are not clear.

 

Please reply with the rule number in question, as well as the issue (contradiction/unwritten rule/vague) with it.

 

This thread is not for new rules suggestions, please make a separate thread for that.

 

 

Rule 2) Powergaming

 

"It is mandatory to RP fear in situations/actions which you would usually refrain from doing realistically. Repercussions of your characters actions must always be considered, situations which result in death due to a lack of fear RP may result in a CK."

 

Would love to hear clarification on if this applies to people who drive at insane speeds through the city (100+ mph) and then crash into a wall or another car. Should this not be enforced as a fear CK or at the very least punished under the same rule of fear RP? If not, I'd like to hear arguments at how driving over 100 mph through city streets is being a responsible person and realistically fearing for your life.

Edited June 1, 2024 by Wiphyz

[honey.]

All responses that have been submitted so far have been catalogued here: https://forum.gta.world/en/topic/127352-rule-contradictions-unwritten-rules/#comment-1396403

 

 

If you don't see a contradiction you mentioned there, it's already in the list of rehaul of the rules.

 

Thank you @Neszy @Thekillergreece @Wiphyz @Diamond @Fizzlestat & @Jeroen, if you have any other ideas please submit another response as I won't re-review messages that have been edited.

[Airwalk]

On 5/31/2024 at 6:52 PM, khadijeh. said:

Rule 14

• Name changing my character "Bob Smith" to "Phil Roberts" and then making a new character called "Bob Smith" would constitute an OOC asset transfer between characters. This should be an example in this section, it happens a lot. (Neszy)

 

 

 

Maybe this should be something you guys have to discuss internally. I asked Nervous about this ages ago (in 2021) and he said it was allowed. Not sure how much has changed in the wording since.

Edited June 2, 2024 by Airwalk