discussion San Andreas Highway Patrol

[Soyuz]

3 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I'm going to sound like an asshole; those that didn't make the cut from the merge of Park Rangers into SD were simply just not built for LEO RP to begin with. Either them just not understanding the fundamentals of being a oath sworn officer/deputy just to not comprehending basic laws and/or not having the capability to RP. It's cold cut to the simple grain of it just won't happen, SD controls and patrols the highways, county, parks and anything county based that I didn't cover; PD controls and patrols city based aspects from South Los to Vinewood from Mirror Park to Vespucci. All aspects of things are covered from already existing LEO concepts that already cover what you're trying to push your agenda forth.

 

That's not at all why some members of SAPR were not accepted to LSSD. It had to do with different issues. Speculating like this is pretty harmful and disrespectful to them!

 

Also, a minor correction: LSSD and LSPD have the same jurisdiction. LSSD can patrol downtown. LSPD can patrol Chiliad Mountain. 

 

Jurisdiction is not the tell-all of what makes a police faction unique. There are huge fundamental differences in the portrayal between municipal police, county police, state police, park ranger police, fire marshal police, tribal police, and so on. They come with their own modi operandi, history, culture, stereotypes, lingo, politics, and so on. 

[Smurf]

1 minute ago, Soyuz said:

 

Could not disagree more. The four LEO factions we have in this community are extremely different from one another in all aspects except the common goal of catching bad guys. Much like the illegal factions have a common goal of being bad guys. 

You can disagree, but 

I as an illegal RPer legitimately have never intended to "being bad guys" if I'm genuinely speaking I've seen more depth in illegal based characters development wise and story telling than I have that of a LEO character. I'm not turning this into any illegal v legal train. But it's observations, take for example these names, Michael Kirkpatrick, Jesse Muro, Dominic Ruelas, Lucas Webb, Peter Conti, Philip Martorano, Erandi DeLaGarza, Weston Stigers, Julian Lang, Jason Carmichael... I can go on and on with this list and be here for like an hour typing names as they come to mind. But overall I just want you to understand that LEO factions, internal structure wise; you have your Chief/Sheriff/Warden for PD/SD/SADCR. You have a hiring process then your ROE, then your IC rules, then the faction's OOC rules and server rules. Illegal wise? You just have to make sure you follow the ROE & server rules. You're an illegal based character, you can do whatever and be a regular joe civilian char while being affiliated to this, that or the third.

I'm going to go out on a whim here and assume you don't do illegal based RP due to your view point and that's completely fair and understanding, but your take on it is massively wrong my boy.

[Red Reika]

20 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Sheriffs Department = county/state (island) wide patrols. Heed your advice and keep it civil, what's illegal RP got to do with spreading LEO RP thinner than what it already is? Just patrol the highways since you're already in SD. 

That's the difference. Sheriffs Department = Sheriff's and Deputies. Not Marshalls, not Rangers, not Troopers. Deputies.

The person who wants to roleplay as a Park Ranger, as a State Trooper, as a Marshall somewhere and whatever, is not the same person who wants to be a Deputy.

That's exactly the same thing as saying: Hey, you want to roleplay a drug smuggler from South Central to Paleto Bay? Just join the Mongols. They do roleplay in the highways, they do drugs. Easy. No need for an illegal faction that does that sort of thing. There is already a county centric illegal faction, go do that.

You want to roleplay one specific facet of journalism centered around ad loc interviews and online publishing? Hey, just go ahead and join LSNN, there's already a news faction, go ahead and do that.

You see where this goes? It's just as a simple as "Join one of the only two LEO factions in the server and go play pretend you're doing something specific."

Edited June 12 by Red Reika
typos

[Smurf]

2 minutes ago, Soyuz said:

 

That's not at all why some members of SAPR were not accepted to LSSD. It had to do with different issues. Speculating like this is pretty harmful and disrespectful to them!

 

Also, a minor correction: LSSD and LSPD have the same jurisdiction. LSSD can patrol downtown. LSPD can patrol Chiliad Mountain. 

 

Jurisdiction is not the tell-all of what makes a police faction unique. There are huge fundamental differences in the portrayal between municipal police, county police, state police, park ranger police, fire marshal police, tribal police, and so on. They come with their own modi operandi, history, culture, stereotypes, lingo, politics, and so on. 

LSPD has main jurisdiction over the city, LSSD has main jurisdiction over the county but can patrol in the city....

[Smurf]

2 minutes ago, Red Reika said:

That's the difference. Sheriffs Department = Sheriff's and Deputies. Not Marshalls, not Rangers, not Troopers. Deputies.

The person who wants to roleplay as a Park Ranger, as a State Trooper, as a Marshall somewhere and whatever, is not the same person who wants to be a Deputy.

That's exactly the same thing as saying: Hey, you want to roleplay a drug smuggler from South Central to Paleto Bay? Just join the Mongols. They do roleplay in the highways, they do drugs. Easy. No need for an illegal faction that does that sort of thing. There is already a county centric illegal faction, go do that.

You want to roleplay one specific facet of journalism centered around ad loc interviews and online publishing? Hey, just go ahead and join LSNN, there's already a news faction, go ahead and do that.

You see where this goes? It's just as a simple as "Join one of the only two LEO factions in the server and go play pretend you're doing something specific."

thats drug trafficking, not smuggling. Please learn the United States law in differences of these two crimes. Not hard.

[Red Reika]

Just now, Smurf said:

thats drug trafficking, not smuggling. Please learn the United States law in differences of these two crimes. Not hard.

You can go over semantics as well to not address the topic at hand, it works.

[Biscuit]

before i start:
this opinion is strictly personal and none of this is as an admin nor as a representative of legal faction management it is all of personal observation being part of and a member of lssd as well as closely working with law enforcement factions within my roleplay experience and experience browsing the forums, seriously guy i am just a random guy on the internet giving an opinion.

 

okay with that out of the way

 

i'm of the opinion that yea, this is a cool thing and it would be nice to have, but in the current landscape of the community, it won't work and it's not just one pure issue, it's a wide array of issues that ultimately, something like this would cause more harm then good i'm gonna try and be short here, but ultimately, as per the poll, the suggestion is very polarizing, showing just how much the community is divided on such a suggestion and typically polarizing things tend to be avoided since it just causes unnecessary drama to begin with.

 

issue 1) the illegal v. legal debate - it's one of those things that just doesn't go away, but with good reason, the illegal community makes up around 60-70% of the community's active playerbase, this means that illegal players would have to deal with one more LEO faction which now potentially has what might be in their opinion, overpowered cruisers, taking away one more ability to evade from police, i don't feel like a faction such as SAHP would benefit the illegal community as much as it would hurt it, they already have to deal with 2 agencies bussing down on them, add to it a third agency, which in fairness, could be compared to SASP, but SASP is regional, SAHP isn't, as soon as you enter a highway, they're your issue now, which many criminals do when evading cops, i know there's a lot of "but no, we wouldn't...", that doesn't matter, cops lose a chase, crime broadcast is out, criminal enters a highway to re-enter a certain region, they now have to deal with one more agency it's that simple.

 

issue 2) legal faction jurisdiction - factions bitch and argue about jurisdiction as much as physicists argue about string theory, i've seen it so many countless times, and jurisdiction never stays IC, never, it always somehow reaches an OOC avenue for there to be OOC intervention for there to be a public argument about it as well and nobody ends up being happy about it and it just ends up in an endless cycle of faction bashing that imo is never justified.

 

issue 3) factions like this would pretty much always end up with some sort of restrictions in other to try and counter these first two issues that are handled with other factions, be it a restriction not to be able to enter the city, or unable to respond to 911 calls, or as some others have suggested a very small playercap. these restrictions always end up being pushed, or questioned or somehow contested which ends up with people being unhappy and questioning why and how and when.

 

-------------------------

 

these three issues, cannot be solved easily, no matter what you throw at the equation, as i said originally, within the current landscape of the community, no solution will work.

 

there's many other issues, but these ones, in my eyes, in my opinion, observing the forums and just observing the community from afar, are the main ones.

 

and unfortunately, as much as I'd personally wish to see it, as seen with the poll, the suggestion is so polarizing, that I think the reality is that this will not become a thing.

 

anyways TLDR;
my opinion is mine

this is a cool idea

the community's landscape doesn't support it

there's a lot of issues

makes illegal v legal debate worse

makes legal faction jurisdiction worse

people tend to push restrictions

these issues aren't easily resolved

the poll is too polarizing for this to be a reality

[Smurf]

10 minutes ago, radreaper100 said:

every MC on the server is a bunch of dudes that like bikes, have a club, and wear a kutte 

 

the flavor changes depending on the club 

 

same as leos 

Mongol bylaws are different from Hells Angels bylaws as are Hells Angels bylaws different from Vagos bylaws as are Vagos bylaws different from Chosen Fews bylaws as Chosen Fews bylaws are different from Silent Ones bylaws as Silent Ones bylaws are different from ... you get the point, if you look at PD's hand book then compare it to SD's hand book, they're about 90% the same. This illegal concept versus that legal concept's ruling are two whole separate things and not really the same.

[Smurf]

12 minutes ago, Red Reika said:

You can go over semantics as well to not address the topic at hand, it works.

Still doesn't make sense as to your comment, drug trafficking is in of it's name, trafficking; meaning you're within traffic, typically a motor vehicle with narcotics of ? quantity. Drug SMUGGLING is when you're smuggling it across state lines and/or United States borders. Neither of which are provided in game. So what you're stating simply isn't at all true, thus you're only able to really speak about drug trafficking. Don't believe me?

 

Quote

In simplest terms, drugs for your own use equal possession, and drugs for someone else's use equal trafficking. Drug smuggling, on the other hand, which is dealt with in 21 U.S.C. § 967, involves the movement of controlled substances across state lines or the United States national border.

Quick google searching helps you have a better understanding of the differences between the two. I'm not at all trying to come off like an asshole, again. But really I just don't understand why you keep referencing the two crimes.

Edited June 12 by Smurf

[radreaper100]

1 hour ago, Biscuit said:

before i start:
this opinion is strictly personal and none of this is as an admin nor as a representative of legal faction management it is all of personal observation being part of and a member of lssd as well as closely working with law enforcement factions within my roleplay experience and experience browsing the forums, seriously guy i am just a random guy on the internet giving an opinion.

 

okay with that out of the way

 

i'm of the opinion that yea, this is a cool thing and it would be nice to have, but in the current landscape of the community, it won't work and it's not just one pure issue, it's a wide array of issues that ultimately, something like this would cause more harm then good i'm gonna try and be short here, but ultimately, as per the poll, the suggestion is very polarizing, showing just how much the community is divided on such a suggestion and typically polarizing things tend to be avoided since it just causes unnecessary drama to begin with.

 

issue 1) the illegal v. legal debate - it's one of those things that just doesn't go away, but with good reason, the illegal community makes up around 60-70% of the community's active playerbase, this means that illegal players would have to deal with one more LEO faction which now potentially has what might be in their opinion, overpowered cruisers, taking away one more ability to evade from police, i don't feel like a faction such as SAHP would benefit the illegal community as much as it would hurt it, they already have to deal with 2 agencies bussing down on them, add to it a third agency, which in fairness, could be compared to SASP, but SASP is regional, SAHP isn't, as soon as you enter a highway, they're your issue now, which many criminals do when evading cops, i know there's a lot of "but no, we wouldn't...", that doesn't matter, cops lose a chase, crime broadcast is out, criminal enters a highway to re-enter a certain region, they now have to deal with one more agency it's that simple.

 

issue 2) legal faction jurisdiction - factions bitch and argue about jurisdiction as much as physicists argue about string theory, i've seen it so many countless times, and jurisdiction never stays IC, never, it always somehow reaches an OOC avenue for there to be OOC intervention for there to be a public argument about it as well and nobody ends up being happy about it and it just ends up in an endless cycle of faction bashing that imo is never justified.

 

issue 3) factions like this would pretty much always end up with some sort of restrictions in other to try and counter these first two issues that are handled with other factions, be it a restriction not to be able to enter the city, or unable to respond to 911 calls, or as some others have suggested a very small playercap. these restrictions always end up being pushed, or questioned or somehow contested which ends up with people being unhappy and questioning why and how and when.

 

-------------------------

 

these three issues, cannot be solved easily, no matter what you throw at the equation, as i said originally, within the current landscape of the community, no solution will work.

 

there's many other issues, but these ones, in my eyes, in my opinion, observing the forums and just observing the community from afar, are the main ones.

 

and unfortunately, as much as I'd personally wish to see it, as seen with the poll, the suggestion is so polarizing, that I think the reality is that this will not become a thing.

 

anyways TLDR;
my opinion is mine

this is a cool idea

the community's landscape doesn't support it

there's a lot of issues

makes illegal v legal debate worse

makes legal faction jurisdiction worse

people tend to push restrictions

these issues aren't easily resolved

the poll is too polarizing for this to be a reality

issues you listed aside I still think it can be done and if it doesn’t work we can just say “told you so”

 

I especially don’t feel the first point is all that valid because there’s such a massive margin of crime on the server as it is that a small group of <30 players would hardly contribute to an overbearing patrol presence especially when you spread them over the highway systems, and the timezones they’re active

 

they don’t need heavily restrictive regulations either, California highway patrol is present within the city and countywide. Their primary purpose shouldn’t be to patrol individual streets but instead remain on major interstates which run like veins throughout the city as it is, and shouldn’t have any issue with accepting a call for service either within their vicinity 

 

there’s countless videos on youtube of CHP spread within hollywood all the way to Santa Monica and are actually contracted with unincorporated communities like Beverly Hills for example and Venice Beach, even LAX. did you know that ingame rn where PD’s 114 is (pre-update by tiddy) that building itself was modeled after CHP’s central station 

Edited June 12 by radreaper100