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Robbery Discussion (a fix for both sides!)


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59 minutes ago, borhoi said:

I wholeheartedly agree with overturning robbery rules if, in the same breath, the victims are allowed to react to the rampant crime in LS like it would be realistically reacted to.

 

It is iconic to see people who put forward "solutions" that only benefit their side, then mald when people see the proposed "solution" for what it is.

 

If you want everyone to have their cake and eat it to, then let's do that. Allow GOV to expand prison sentences, allow heavy-handed and effective injunctions in gang areas.

 
 

I have no issues with injunctions, I actually welcome it, it’s good rp. I think the majority of illegal roleplayers enjoy LEO roleplay when it’s done right (robocop over sexualised female SWAT members with zero character development is not done right). I think I echo a large swathe of the illegal community when I say that removing the guys in OSS who were manhandling a lot of the sloppy gangs was a seriously bad move.
 

Jail sentences are fine though. Jail sentences give you an ooc time, which is already adequate. Jail rp is not for everybody and people don’t need to be punished OOC for IC crimes, this isn’t that nature of roleplay. 

 

I’m all for balance, in fact I’m all for imbalance, LEOs should greatly out-power illegal roleplayers, and they do. The assets they have at their disposal are really good and LFM has come to a great compromise between keeping LEOs powerful and balancing realism/fun.

 

This doesn’t need to be an us vs them argument. 

 

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On 8/10/2023 at 8:13 PM, Smurf said:

The only issue with the robbery rule is the usage of cars. I'll suggest it like it's be suggested time and time again, if X group of individuals use a vehicle they have to park a minimum of 200 meters away from the situation. (That's still within render distance as it's set to 300 meters)

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The above is a quick google search for the conversion for both Europeans and Americans to understand the distance & average sprint time of a 200 meter dash for both Male & Females with age brackets. With this idea you have a general 20-30 second gap between the robbery location to a get-away vehicle. It's not much to ask for but we ask that the no car rule just be removed and replaced with something of what I'm speaking on.

This is the best solution I see.

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Cars are not the issue.

The prohibition on car usage is a workaround to disincentive robbing- and a bad one at that naturally as it doesn't tell people directly to rob less but tries to streamline it so they do it on their own.

I can only speculate what leads to such bad designs but if I had to guess, the idea was to not piss off robbers by not generally adding a red tape for robbing as it exists for many much more trivial and less invasive actions, but much rather focus on some technical details.

Well, we see how good this worked.

 

And while complex rules naturally do make some players give up on it, the majority will not do that, but rather try to adapt to new rules by still doing their thing, just in line with new rules.

I have to highlight the perspective of the victim once again here:

As the one getting robbed, the preparations done by the robbing party will typically not affect my rp experience. First of all as I am not involved in them, on the contrary, anyone who plans to rob me naturally has all reasons to put effort into not letting me know.

Secondly, even if I notice upfront I am followed, great, I'm being followed. Security prease. And a prayer to the rp gods they don't just try shoot me for "snitching" I suppose.

 

The rules (falsely) allege that more preparations and effort done by robbers make a more interesting rp experience for everybody which is simply not the case by design.

Instead, the rules should admit robbings are not usually a refreshing experience for both sides, and establish requirements that exclude more than just cops, gov officials and the handful of private industry factioneers from robbing people at gunpoint.

 

Because the core issue is not that people use cars to move around (lol), it's that almost every character has robbing privileges for quite anachronistic reasons (us playing cops&robbers in samp).

 

With ~800 people online at prime time, it's natural a god portion of them portraits criminals tries to engage in criminal activity thus.

What's the crime with the lowest entry hurden?

Exactly, robbing, anyone is allowed to do it and you don't need a supplier or connection.

 

16 hours ago, EAST LOS MARVELOUS said:

I think I echo a large swathe of the illegal community when I say that removing the guys in OSS who were manhandling a lot of the sloppy gangs was a seriously bad move.

Most of all take this in account:

Simultaneously, the number of average players reached an all time high the past two years, and as just mentioned we average 800 players at eu prime time.

Needless to point out once more: It's GTA, so the role of "criminal" is a natural go-to also for new players.

As mentioned above, with dealing often being a non profit enterprise robbing is the first choice as it's easiest to get into (success is not mandatory, mind you).

 

This means, both if looking only at gtaw as well as when taking historical samp' servers ic demography into account, we effectively have less law enforcement than ever, while having more demand for it.

We can say this is an ic issue, but it really isn't.

 

As for the original suggestion:

While I like and get the concept, the problem in the execution is that same as say "planned" robbing, individual perspectives can differ.

Most of all the problem described above still exists:

A robbery can be planned for ages and be prepared in a lot of detail and all this will not make it a more interesting encounter for the victim (to whom in fact, robbers may stay strangers after all even if they did scout them out, see above).

 

If prior stalking should be made a mandatory requirement for muggings is something I am absolutely not convinced of.

We do lack the cops to deal with it.

Edited by knppel
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Opening up 15 Threads about the same subject will not introduce change.

 

We had less restrictions on robberies and administration opted to introduce regulations because it was getting out of hand. 

 

Referencing RL in these discussions is a moot point. This is a game. Death is not permanent, guns are more rare than IRL yet a vastly higher percentage of this cities population would (like to) use one. Typing takes longer than speaking so weird sprint statistics help nothing to combat the fact that some players type slower than others. Do we now punish typing-speed on a text-based roleplay-project? 

 

Get over it and find other illegal venues to spend your time one. 

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6 minutes ago, Coni said:

Opening up 15 Threads about the same subject will not introduce change.

 

We had less restrictions on robberies and administration opted to introduce regulations because it was getting out of hand. 

 

Referencing RL in these discussions is a moot point. This is a game. Death is not permanent, guns are more rare than IRL yet a vastly higher percentage of this cities population would (like to) use one. Typing takes longer than speaking so weird sprint statistics help nothing to combat the fact that some players type slower than others. Do we now punish typing-speed on a text-based roleplay-project? 

 

Get over it and find other illegal venues to spend your time one. 

Nobody is referencing real life in this thread?

 

Maybe you need to get over your pre-conceived distaste for illegal roleplayers and find better ways to spend your time than detracting from discourse and derailing my thread with irrelevant info. 
 

Thanks champ. 

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42 minutes ago, Coni said:

Opening up 15 Threads about the same subject will not introduce change.


Not opening 15 threads and just keeping your mouth shut won’t either. It’d be a different world if administrators publicly revisited the rules and worked with people in the community to find something that works. Or already let us know “hey this is something we’re working on”. But nah, instead IF we get anything at all it’s the occasional 15 second mention in a private admin meeting and a sudden change out of nowhere only to be forgotten for the next 45 days. 👍🏻

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6 hours ago, eTaylor said:


Not opening 15 threads and just keeping your mouth shut won’t either. It’d be a different world if administrators publicly revisited the rules and worked with people in the community to find something that works. Or already let us know “hey this is something we’re working on”. But nah, instead IF we get anything at all it’s the occasional 15 second mention in a private admin meeting and a sudden change out of nowhere only to be forgotten for the next 45 days. 👍🏻

Or players push and abuse things to the point of yet another restriction being added for some temporary respite, which of course everyone then suddenly has an opinion about despite doing absolutely nothing to prevent the restriction from happening in the first place, in most cases the opposite. Just as long as folk get their easy guns & money they're happy to ignore obvious problems until suddenly it effects them.

 

Always better to have a discussion than not have one until it's too late.

Edited by Moonsong
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3 hours ago, Moonsong said:

Always better to have a discussion than not have one until it's too late.

 

The only issue with this is that the discussions routinely boil down to the people in a position to change things instead saying "Maybe just don't go outside" or "Go play a different game" and then they flip the table when new rules are implemented to fix the plummeting server population.

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this is a great way to further divide people and disintegrate any social interaction on the server out of fear you'll become a target over one misplaced sentence

why would i continue to use facebrowser if it's a gateway for loosened robbery rules against me

why would i interact with anyone that isn't my characters closest friend

then comes an epidemic of vped cars because anything worth a damn just makes you a target for a 4 deep car robbery

 

its a great idea if you want the server to dive further and further into a gang rp server, but its not great for just about everyone else. its incredibly one-sided to the robbers, and basically tells everyone else 'good luck and go fuck yourself'

 

I am in full support of this if im allowed to walk around with a carbine rifle on my civilian and immediately open fire at any masked individual or 4-deep vehicle that comes within my vicinity

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1 hour ago, rainbowlarva said:

this is a great way to further divide people and disintegrate any social interaction on the server out of fear you'll become a target over one misplaced sentence

why would i continue to use facebrowser if it's a gateway for loosened robbery rules against me

why would i interact with anyone that isn't my characters closest friend

then comes an epidemic of vped cars because anything worth a damn just makes you a target for a 4 deep car robbery

 

its a great idea if you want the server to dive further and further into a gang rp server, but its not great for just about everyone else. its incredibly one-sided to the robbers, and basically tells everyone else 'good luck and go fuck yourself'

 

I am in full support of this if im allowed to walk around with a carbine rifle on my civilian and immediately open fire at any masked individual or 4-deep vehicle that comes within my vicinity


lmao another great take, ok

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