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SunPuddle

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  1. I don't know if you can have good historical RP given how "adult" the topics dominating that time period would be (racism, sexism, rape, slavery, murder, etc). Disallowing all that would create a comical setting without any of the grit that makes westerns appealing. Allowing all that is a massive can of worms to open and an admin headache. I don't really want to RP characters in that time period if the historical accuracy isn't there. What fun is RPing a black sheriff if there's no systemic racism? What's the point of a Calamity Jane character if there's modern gender values? The stuff that went down on the American Frontier was pretty ugly, much more so than modern L.A gang dynamics. Speaking as someone that usually roleplays "underdog" characters (female criminals, outcast minorities, etc) I would be pretty annoyed if my characters were treated in a 2022 manner in 1890. I think it'd have to be an 18+ type server with a much more serious "adult" approach, otherwise it's just GTA:W with horses and offers little but different aesthetics.
  2. The more non-violent means of making $$ the more criminal RP will find enjoyable ways to occupy itself without just trading PKs, not to say that there isn't lots imaginative RP'ers can't already do but there's loads of room for expansion. Particularly meaningful criminal schemes that don't require being deeply involved in a faction. Its probably not possible but if the drug-demand mirrored real life more closely more "passive" drug RP would occupy more criminals and there'd be a lot more room for meaningful dealings/concessions/compromises/interactions between criminal groups. IRL the drug trade is so massive but its really hard to recreate that on a server that maxes out with 800 people, not 800,000.
  3. Amen. Good RP isn't being "unique" or novel. Its being able to portray a plausible/realistic concept well. There are 10,000 possible good portrayals of a hispanic banger with a meth problem - to pick a prime stereotype. I really like picking "classic" concepts and doing my best to humanize them, give them nuance, and portray them to their full extent. I love encountering "stereotypical" characters where its clear that attention/effort/thought has been put into the character. I just think there's a limit to IFM's ability to cover everything. I appreciate what they're trying to do, but of course there will be some minor inconsistencies. I wish the GTA:V world allowed for a more comprehensive inclusion of all of California as in the big picture the criminal networking goes cross state and criminal groups influence eachother, but on SAMP servers it devolved into Nortenos/Sureno's driving across the map to beef sets unrealistically.
  4. as someone who lived in northern cali for a long time, i think norteno RP is very cool, but its hard seeing it fit like having a norteno gang in paleto would be cringe, having one in LS wouldn't make sense alas we're not antioch or sacramento RP (be kinda cool if we were)
  5. I feel the robbery problem is greatly embellished or I am lucky. I routinely spend long periods of time, alone, outside. My character(s) are usually pretty ideal marks/targets. I've been robbed I think maybe 2-3 times? I'm sure other people have had worse experiences but this whole "you can't RP outdoors" seems kind of fabricated to me. I routinely RP outdoors on fairly "helpless" type characters. I fair more often encounter random characters offering to be excessively helpful rather than predatory. Even then, if someone RPs it decently, I don't really mind robbery RP. It gives my character something to react/engage with, if its not done terribly. I would encourage robbery RP that's more targeted and involves build-up RP and after-math RP, but the only type of robbery RP that should be disallowed is the type of robbery RP that's already disallowed (chain robberies, roaming the city on dirtbikes, going out to the county on hood characters, etc).
  6. Less basis in OOC cliques. I get it; you want to RP with your friends/people you know to RP to your standards. Also some concepts just require a bit of OOC planning to launch. That all said; when I can tell who is OOC friends with who, and who's in discord/VC, just based on how characters are interacting IG? That's a problem. I'd also like to see characters from different factions interact more; especially gangs, etc. I think insular criminal RP where you only really engage with your faction members when not committing crimes is a bit underwhelming.
  7. IRL public relations are actually hugely important for any significant PD. IRL the LAPD certainly puts a big priority on public relations. Most modern policing in 2021 actually has a strong emphasis on PR since its pretty universally acknowledged that police-public trust is very badly eroded in 2021. This doesn't mean ignoring things, or doing whatever the public wants, but it does mean public reaction is considered as an important factor. Okay, as an adult that lives in America IRL, this is silly. Cops are very personable all the time. I've had lots of encounters with police -- no not as a violent criminal, duh -- but from traffic stops, to the fact that we had police in our highschools, to having cops come into places I work, and so on. Police are absolutely allowed to joke around, be personable, and use quite a bit of discretion in how they react to situations. All in all I'm personally all for the current level of police response, its appropriate, but the notion that public relations don't matter and cops aren't personable is just not an accurate reflection of modern America.
  8. Anyone who RP's a criminal with any serious investment would want this. Its frustrating to have limitations/rules/etc put in place due to the lowest standard players, who are the least likely to be impacted by stricter rules too because they'll more willingly rulebreak, quit the server if caught, etc. I think its important to recognize that, broadly speaking, you can make two categories of criminal roleplayers. A) People who roleplay a character, who happens to have a criminal part of their life. B) People who roleplay a character with the ooc desire to commit crimes for the ooc thrill. The first category isn't usually the problem when it comes to frustrating other players. See my above post, you have a robbery problem in Los Santos perhaps but not a "crime" problem, really. Los Santos isn't exactly rife with clever criminal enterprise; its rife with robbery (to some extent, its not really that bad), and south central has its own dynamic. Some people do, some people don't, some people disagree on what good "consequences" are. Myself? All for long jail sentences, but don't like too high in-game serving requirements. Why? Most of my characters are women; jail RP for women is quite minimal and often lower quality. Other people will have different perspectives. In the end, on a RP server, you have to let go of wanting everyone else to portray to your own standards (as lovely as it would be). There's plenty of social/"civilian" RP that's bonkers stupid but because nobody is "winning" or "losing" nobody cares. Pragmatically, until it really impacts your ability to RP what you want/enjoy your characters, you just have to let people have their shitty RP and hope they develop as an RPer into something better. This goes for all RP; criminal RP is just usually the most "flamboyant" when its stupid.
  9. Bingo. Let people rob/be criminals, handle it IC. IC consequences can be tweaked if they are imperfect; I wouldn't cry if robbery-related arrests got extended, for example. Sure, there will always be a handful of people who don't care about their characters and will do stupid things, but that exists in the legal realm and creates for bad RP there too. That's just a limitation of a big RP server where some people put less value on preserving a character. Most of my characters are more likely to be victims than criminals; I much prefer a good robbery/scheme to no RP. I enjoy being a victim when the RP is good. It disappoints me to have OOC regulations make it harder for my characters to be exposed to anything beyond social, conversational RP (which is fun but needs to have other stuff alongside it). Also, sure, if crime is defined as robbery schemes than LS might have "too much crime" but honestly, I have so many characters that could be easily exploited/scammed/manipulated that never get victimized. I've RP'd a coke addicted stripper with terrible judgement and mostly just been given things and helped out, for example. You can RP a character that IRL would wind up dead-ended and miserable and on GTA:W someone will more likely give you an apartment and pay your college tuition then take advantage of you. In that sense GTA:W's LS is 10,000x safer than real life L.A.
  10. I like the heavy handed cop response in SC. It makes the atmosphere feel brutal. I don't see any OOC need to request less cops to show up. Its all IC defined; SC has a absurdly high violent crime rate, so cops behave accordingly. That's a lot better RP than a lone cop acting cocky. In an IC way it trains my criminal character to avoid/be fearful of police. Is it annoying to lose a firearm because you stepped outside your apartment at the wrong time, and cops are sweeping the ghetto? Yes. Is it realistic? Very. It actually makes me feel like I'm playing a different character with a different life when I go on my South Central resident versus my Del Perro residing character. I'm sure in real life things vary lots city to city, state to state, country to country, but I've seen police IRL respond very heavy to smaller incidents. Why? Couldn't say for sure, but it often looks like a combination of using low-risk incidents as training plus if you have unoccupied units in the area, why not use them?
  11. For /certain/ things, throwing money casually is good. When it comes to exchanging money for roleplayed services, ie being willing to tip someone say 1-3k for spending an hour or two RPing doing a tattoo, or being willing to just go to businesses, or being willing to RP buying multiple drinks, because you're not so money-stressed that you'd rather save it encourages people to go out and about and interact/engage. For things that aren't RP-generating to throw money at, ie properties and vehicles, there are things that regulate their price. Vehicles are pretty easy; as long as dealership prices stay static inflation doesn't impact them. Property requires regulation, of which some already exists. Insofar as people use the things they purchase to create roleplay, people purchasing things is good.
  12. You are right that some of this is going to overlap with money siphoning off to richer players, but in the process a) it creates RP which is the very purpose of this server b) it feeds the "middle-class" of the server. It allows characters to be employed at businesses, generates RP for them in the process. The fact that the starter money allows players to do this is ultimately a good thing; within reason money facilitates roleplay, especially when people aren't OOCly too tight to RP paying door-fee's or buying drinks because they need to "grind" for that first car/apartment/gun/whatever. For those starter dollars to reach the business mogul millionaire, they have to pass through a series of roleplay to get there. The roleplay along the way is a good thing, the accumulation in the end players account may not be. Ultimately the goal here is roleplay, creating as much good roleplay as possible. The economy is only relevant insofar as it either servers or hinders roleplay - nobody is here to play an economics simulator. So to that point I would ask; is reducing starter money going to enhance the roleplay on the server in macro more than the collection of individual players who's roleplay it will hinder in micro? Short of doing it, and finding an objective way to assess roleplay quality, we can only speculate. That said my speculation is that it would not. I would think your other solution in the unquoted portion of your post is a bit more graceful as it only really targets veteran players who have had a chance to access starting money.
  13. Too much generalizing and assuming. Show me the step-by-links from that 25k, and how it feeds direct issues to do with wealth portrayal & inflation. I don't entirely agree with your series of assumptions. I'm not convinced that the 25k in question here is more liking to be "siphoned off" by the richer players versus getting spent on vehicles, consumables, or wind up facilitating RP via door-fee's and purchasing drinks. If the core issue is these hyper rich players "siphoning" off money, and a need to remove quantities of money from the economy to target "richer players", why is reducing paycheques a preference over a wealth-tax/cap or another solution that directly targets the rich players? What specifically is the issue? If its role portrayal reducing starter money does nothing, that's an issue with the players themselves. If its wealth accumulation at the top of the food-chain, reducing starter money is arguably inefficient and indirect and puts the burden of regulating the rich on new players/characters. If my issue is with people who are established on the server, my solutions should be targeted at them - not newcomers.
  14. RPG =/= RP In a perfect world you'd let everyone pick their starter money & assets based on the role that character is. In reality that doesn't work as people lack restraint and maturity. The 200k is a compromise - its doesn't allow you to by default have the assets of many roles, but it allows you to put together the basics for a majority of "average" roles in society. Also, look at your last sentence, that type of system just favors OOC networking - which is and will always be an issue on RP servers - but a scarcity of resources only makes people lean on those connections harder, creates insular have-and-have-not servers, and once more massively favors people who can play all day/every day, which then creates a server culture where the only people with any influence/traction have zero RL. That's not a fun community. I don't see how changing it to 150k, or 100k, or the like, is going to stop "mallrats" from roleplaying poorly. If someone doesn't roleplay in an adequate manner you won't ever change it via the script. Its either within the realm of bad but tolerable RP, as so many things are, or its so bad it deserves admin action. $500 is the default unless you're taking a script job with a higher pay-out and not roleplaying that job. Its $495 when you consider $5 tax is inescapable. How is reducing starter funds by 25k going to make a significant impact to property scarcity or "mallrats" not adequately roleplaying their wealth? If people are abusing the starter 200k by creating characters over and over, transferring that wealth in a way they can access it on another char, in order to amass over 200k on any single character, I'm pretty sure that's outright rule-breaking and should be treated as such & not have the whole system altered to punish new players because veterans find a way to abuse it. Ruining things for the average because the outlier abuses it makes for a shitty environment.
  15. So if you don't actually play a role but play the server as a game to accrue assets, its too easy. So lets punish the more genuine roleplayers who use that 200k to buy a car, rent & spend money at businesses? Backwards thinking. The 200k is fine. The people who aren't here to portray roles (roleplay) but are here to RPG are the issue. Also, choice of words; know what your doing. So not being a newbie. So lets make it harder for newbies to get started because vets abuse the system? I object to that line of reasoning as being good for a roleplay server. How exactly is it the starting 200k that's an issue? People make this assumption but don't really demonstrate it. Can you, point by point, link the causal chain from the 200k to either poor roleplay or property scarcity, or another genuine economic issue? This isn't an RPG or an MMO. You're not meant to "grind" and "earn" things. You're meant to portray a role. I'd love to hear how making starter players have a hard time getting cars/apartments is going to improve roleplay. Look; different characters, if roleplayed correctly, will have different money-making opportunities. If you want to portray a ghetto resident that either sells small quantities of drugs or works at a 7/11, your earning capacity is very different than someone roleplaying a stripper, or a cop, or a longshoreman, or a business mogul. The idea that this is some even playing field is an RPG mentality; My ghetto character should not be earning the same as my college educated character if roleplayed correctly. They only can if I ignore my role and just do whatever the script lets me. The only issue with the 200k is if you take an OOC RPG mentality where on every character you misuse every script job and investment opportunity with minimal roleplay and essentially grind the meta-game of GTA:W. Making players who genuinely want to RP suffer/have a hard time, because other people RPG-Grind, is bad for a roleplay server. Finally, the unspoken resource is any players ability to commit time to grinding/afking/etc. People with disproportionate free time are always going to come out ahead. Don't punish people with real lives as an attempt to slow down people who can spend 12 hours a day in a game. It won't work.
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