Wuhtah

If the LEO faction had a jail-only type of employment, yes to a prison.

We hardly get any reports of people recklessly driving as that is an entire IC situation. The only reports we get are: "Player crashed into me and drove off." "Player crashed into an object and drove off."

Will you level me up to the correct level too?

no.

Haha that was @goddessoflife!!

I just want to applaud everyone here on how they spoke to this player and to each other. I really appreciate the advice as well given, and the perspectives.

behave this time mfer

Everyone has their own opinions on the matter. Suggestion threads are created to see both opinions. I have seen everyone's opinion so far filled with respect (most of you). Attacking another person's opinion and singling them out is not the way to go. Just because they have a different opinion of you, does not mean they are a bad person or wrong. They simply just don't agree. In real life, this happens all of the time. It doesn't make them immature, it doesn't make them hot headed, it doesn't make them not fit for any supervisor position. Unless they degrade you, insult you, or outright disrespect you, people having opinions of the opposite matter is great. Do not lash out at anyone because they don't bend to the majority or the minority. If someone is not in favor of this and you are, feel free to put a non-aggressive discussion up. But telling them that they are a horrible person (I'm not quoting) because they don't see the need for the rule (in a respectable way), is not the way to go and is childish within itself.

You can make a poll! 0.

Reach out to Nervous.

Apologies for the delay here. @sparkz - So, three months as a support, one month as TA, then the rest as L1, L2, onwards. The first month as a support - we have them focus on tickets and server applications only. This is the foundation of any staff member as so many players come to you for your opinion, your take, your answers, etc. If you can't answer them, then we train you to be verbal in asking in staff chat in the game or in discord. This helps pave the way with communication amongst all staff members and keeping it open. Relying on the rest of the staff to have your back, even if we dislike each other from the curtains of everything. An united staff team is a strong staff team - and that starts from the top and from the bottom. We want the newest support members to get comfortable with every administrator on the team, and there is a lot of us. We ask them mid monthly if they are having any issues with anyone, and we also bring up issues they might have had that Adv and I were notified about previously. How they take it, how they gain from it is also training. As a staff member, you're going to fuck up. Taking back constructive criticism whether it's from a player or another staff member (lesser ranking, equal ranking, or higher ranking) is crucial. So, back to it - applications help the supports know and understand the rules a lot better and see different ways it can be broke, different ways it cannot be broke, etc. The players on the applications provide tons of different examples, so it is very good training. Same with tickets and new things being implemented. Supports should know the new commands, how to fix things, etc or reach out and ask. The second month as support is the same - tickets and applications, but we bring in forum work. We all know that there are some names on the admin team that people go "oh wow, I'm going to ask them a question" or "go to XXX, they're really nice" - this is called approachability. We want our supports to work on gaining this and making their name known to the community, so the community can form their opinion (good or bad) on them (preferably good). As you all know - reputations within this community never leave you. Building up a good reputation when you are relatively unknown is also crucial. Getting your opinion out there, helping out developers by adding their suggestion/+1/-1 on there, or even discussing hot staff topics (gathered from you guys) is something to keep the fluidity of staff moving. This work also makes it so they clean up the forums, are exposed to forum reports / ban appeals and see how they work, etc. The third month as a support is the same as the second, but we introduce the Trial Admin Prep Program. This helps 3 month supports get the training they need to not be as overwhelmed when they hit the ground running as a TA - as we know first hand how stressful this is. We are still trying to tweak this here and there, but as of right now it consists of two phases - one in game with commands and seeing in game reports and the other one dealing with forum reports (the overall approach of a neutral take - everyone has clean admin records ,etc) as well as hopefully dabbling into how to do refunds or asset transfers to keep those moving smoothly as well. Some admins do not understand how to log search, so training them up leaves a lot of other admins who handle all refunds a lot less work to do. Sharing is caring. As for a TA - they have a 'folder' of who their admin trainer was, what they did, how they handled it, etc. They have to get a certain amount of different reports in (breakins, in game, forums), etc in order to pass the TA phase. I don't remember much on all of this as I'm not on the administrative side of SM, but if you're curious - Zani or Boots can give more information. @dawpi - From what I am seeing in my original post, I did speak a lot about inactive admins. From what I have been seeing so far, it is going to be squashed with terms of inactivity and going on LOAs for months at a time. However, I can't really give any information out right now because it's mid month January and we have two weeks to go. You know yourself how utility reports are usually taken very quickly and RP reports sit there. It's just because RP reports vary - they can take 15 mins, they can take 30 mins or they can take 1 hour. People want to have fun, it's a game, so do administrators. Some admins barely have time to RP. They get home from work, they have a couple of hours, do they really want to spend that 2 hours handling a report from Fred who is screaming and bitching like crazy to Karen who VDM'd him and then don't forget, Fred is going to add onto that Samual and Tina came in and DM'd him 20 mins ago. Yes, that report would be sent to the forums, but there are some hardworking admins who feel bad for sending reports to the forums and do try to help out the players right then and there. Doesn't always work. Zani and Boots have been fantastic in terms of the administrative side of SM (ASM I will refer to for now on in this post) and have been COMPLETELY understanding in ways that not many ASM were before. SM is on the side of the community, not staff, not player. If a player did wrong and fucked up with an administrator - SM will handle it for a staff report and vice versa. I do believe that they will go far and help the administrative team get their spark back as some of the burn outs are coming back around with a fresh of breath air (not all of them yet). The lacking of internal illegal dynamics does put a play on things, however, some admins don't quite understand that the report is: Is it DM or not? Can it be proved that it was? Can it be proved that it wasn't? At that point, you're going to be provided evidence, you take it and you decide for yourself if it was DM or not. If the player disagrees, they staff report and they get some fresh eyes to give their opinions on the matter. Not every staff report is bad. That's what were trying to make the admins understand and not be scared to take RP reports even if they don't quite understand. If it is something that is happening constantly, yes, administrative actions will most likely be taken. Just today, there has been 200 reports so far. According to stats - there are 145 administrators. This includes developers and LC admins. Let's lower that down. - 3 Management which they do a ton of work outside of the game but still handle reports here and there when they are even able to get ON. - 5 Lead admins, 1 being LC/LS both, and they are all either heads of a subteam or assistant heads. So, their subteam comes first over in game reports, but they still meet the quota every single month. - 10 Senior admins - these people are in lead positions within their subteam, so they assist the L4s and also try to meet quota. - 21 Level Two admins - these people do subteam work and do the quota given. - 7 Level One admins - these people may or may not be in a subteam and do the quota given. - 4 TAs - these people cannot do any RP reports by themselves and require an administrative trainer as this is their training phase. I'm excluding TAs as well as management in this count: 43 administrators. 43 administrators who have different time zones, different jobs, different everything and there's already been 200 reports within the server restart. This is classed as the 'low peak times' as well. Let's round the amount of admins up to 45. 200 divided by 45 is that each admin needs to take 4 reports, some need to take 5. This is just for the morning run. Last month there was about 7000 reports. 7,000 / 43 = 163 reports each which is about 50% more than the minimum quota. There's almost 30 days in each month, divide 163 / 30 = 6 reports a day. Not everyone can get on every day, and if they only have 2 hours per day and let's say each report will take 20 mins (RP ONLY REPORTS BEING COUNTED) 6x20 = 120 minutes which is your entire 2 hours gone. If we did only 6 reports a day, which doesn't seem like a lot, we would still not answer all reports. Not all 43 admins will be online at least once every single day - that's impossible. So, their 6 reports will move onto another admin's shoulders, and if that admin says "fuck it, I did my 6 and someone else's 6, I'm RPing now) then the admins who were offline has their 6 onto the other admins who feel the same way as the first admin who has done 12 reports in a day (RP REPORTS ONLY AGAIN). So, when you're complaining about reports not being taken (rightfully so sometimes), take this outlook into view. I believe the forums for /break-in requests has been forwarded for review by management, I will ask when the staff meeting comes up how far we've come on that. We're also in the talks of perhaps getting a forum board specifically for reports that involve log searching - CCTV, etc. Some admins can't get in game to handle those types of reports, but do not mind doing it when a player comes to their DMs about it. I'll also ask in the staff meeting about the take in self voiding. If two people get into a car accident and do not require any items spawned in by admins, perhaps we can make it so you guys don't need admin intervention and lower the report count down a bit. Apologies if I didn't address everything, you wrote a lot, dawpi.

Yes but what about the fact that it won't be seen in game then? That was one of the points here!

This is absolutely adorable. I'd leave random sticky notes in the streets of it "blowing away" from my characters pocket, purse or car.. something.

Ugh, no strays. I'm sorry, but no. There's a ton of weird ass kids who like to shoot paintball guns, throw rocks, or straight up do anything in their disgusting little sausage fingered mind to strays. Absolute no from me. I sincerely doubt GTAW kids are going to be better than that. Chickens, cows, whatever, if the player can spawn them in with a script or something tied to them, fine.

@sparkz - they go through 3 months as support for training basics/fundamentals and then 1 month as a TA for more. I'll explain it a lot better when I get home in a couple of hours for more transparency. @dawpi - I see that you mentioned my name a lot. I'll get back to you in a couple of hours soon chief.

LC admins have not been trained as LS admins, they do lack in the foundation with that which is why some LS admins do not want a merge - which is respectable. With this, players normally gravitate to the server that is more populated. If this ever happens, we need to make sure that LC HAS admins on that server when it's not always the case.

After speaking with staff management - The reasoning of why staff reports will not be shown is because our names are all over the forums, the game, etc. As a player - no one is going to remember that you got punished once for metagame or powergame unless you are a problematic player. No one bashes you. No one holds shit against you. If they do, it's very rarely and it's from a certain clique you maybe were once apart of or grown enemies towards, which in itself, is immature and pathetic. It's a game. For administrators, we are constantly under scrutiny as most of you have no problems telling us how to do our job, complain about how we do it, or even staff report us for not doing it up to your standards. Your standards, frankly, are not the server standards most of the time. Staff reports are between the staff member being reported, the player reporting, the staff management administrative side, and management. Staff Management has improved greatly over this last month as Zani took head of admins, and I believe he is a damn good one thus far. Boots has been right next to him helping him, and she is obviously trustworthy within the staff team as she's held Head of Mapping this entire time. I have not once ever seen anyone complain about these two, and it shows that these two are in damn good positions. They don't just conclude the report of saying "we agree with how the admin handled it." They give you paragraphs of why they do agree and how they will proceed moving forward. Just how support side of staff management has improved with denial reasonings, they have improved with staff reports. To counter the debunk of "I heard some staff reports have been waiting 9 months" - I've asked, and was answered this was not true. Either they have old staff management in there that hasn't been forwarded to the new staff management, or Frezemis simply forgot. I recommend adding Zani and Boots into the forum PM to get things handled quicker. 80% of the staff reports that come in that they have to wade through are absolutely the most pettiest reports I have seen. A TA could handle it the same way without any proper training and get the same conclusion as the handling administrator who has had months of training - it's that apparent with it. Staff management was chosen by Management & Nervous themselves. If you have an issue with how they handle things, send it up the line and staff report them. As of now, and future, staff reports will remain hidden as there is no reason to put an administrator on blast. To counter arguments "well players are put on blast" - they aren't. They are only on blast because they specifically either broke the rules or they didn't. A staff report is determining if an administrator put the wrong punishment or not. 80% of the time, the administrator is in the right. And this upsets the player who is staff reporting even more because they just can't understand what they did was wrong even if it was explained by the original administrator as well as staff management. To those players - there's nothing we can do to help them. If they can't see their flaws, then they have some growing up to do and some self reflection to make. The other 20% of the time, the administrator could have handled it a bit better in ways of words or getting more proper evidence and in the end - would usually be the reported parties' fault because they didn't give it all to begin with. If it's a constant occurrence with an administrator, they are warned. If it keeps happening, they are removed. Half of you guys don't check the staff lists to see this being done and it shows. While I understand transparency is key, this is asking for too much and you guys aren't getting the big picture. You guys speak of witch hunts for random players - but there is a huge playerbase, even if it does not show all the time, of thousands of different people on at all different times. There is an admin team of 40-60 people, most names are WELL known. If one makes a mistake, so much toxicity and hate will go towards them and that witch hunt will make them resign and that is something we will not let happen. Staff management protects the staff team, yes, but we also make sure those who are indeed bias/giving bad punishments are spoken to, warned, or removed appropriately. If you have talks about someone being corrupted/bias - it makes me feel that you didn't have the evidence to show it which is why nothing came out of it. Again, just because you have a staff report, does not make you entitled to be in the right. It entitles you to get a second opinion from 2-3 different administrators to let you know if you are in the wrong or the right. Will be locking this for now until Management can read up and add anything else to it.

Very true, I guess you guys leave me out of the loop on purpose. I 100% agree that transparency is critical. I have always preached this. If you believe in your whole heart, that the staff management that we have now on this server - is covering up for someone or is corrupt - PLEASE take it to Nervous and management themselves with the proof that you have. Most of the staff reports come from forum reports, so if a player sees an administrator do a horrible decision on the forum report - then it can be reported by the player who is getting screwed over. I don't see any reason why you can't reach out to the player to ask for the conclusion either. Also, I do believe putting on the forum report itself if anything was reverted is a good step in the right direction in terms of compromise. Do we have any feedback on that comment? I understand that you're giving moral support, but you're also not giving anything to the thread - please, if you have something to add, definitely add it as I'd like to listen to what everyone has to say. If not, I'm sure a reaction to their post would suffice. Let me talk with Staff Management & Frezemis to get the exact reasons why staff reports aren't open to the public and I'll get back to you guys.

But as you, the player reporting it, sees that. If it's left unanswered for a period of time - go up the chain of command.

I didn't see this before as you edited it - I'm unsure of who told you this because that isn't necessarily true at all. When new staff joins the team and you report a TA - the admin trainer gets staff reported as well and they are the ones who get the actions taken upon them. You are true in this regard, how can we not put the players on blast and be respectful to them then? You do make a good counter argument point here though.

Player reports are made public because doing it through forum DMs would be an absolute nightmare. It would get lost, players can kick us out of the DMs which will make it harder to find them again through forum developer work, etc. Player reports are also public from what I said above - the permissions would be an absolute killer. If a staff member makes a bias/corrupt decision, it IS public on the forum report itself. That's why a staff report is made and it gets handled from there. THIS I do understand. However, how would you know if a staff member got staff reported or not if it wasn't you doing it or if it wasn't a friend of yours? And it's not necessarily in secret as the staff management lets you know the outcome of the report once it's all done. However, I do understand your POV of 'how many people have gotten cut loose for shit that was definitely wrong'. I'm unsure of how we can compromise with this though. How many reports have been entirely ghosted is something that everyone will wonder as well, even staff members. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but it would also be helpful to know if it was concluded or whatnot. Would there be a compromise on this? What if SM says 'Staff report being done on this report'. for a forum report if anything, and once concluded, can perhaps say the conclusion of: 'SM favors player.' or 'SM favors admin' - MAYBE giving the reason but not necessarily if any punishments were involved? I'm not too sure how we can meet in the middle here. This is why I am against it, which I believe you were being sarcastic and funny - which some parts were (sorry if you were being serious!). If an administrator genuinely messes up, I am afraid that the players will hold that against the administrator, whether it was not a corrupting decision or not. We do genuinely make mistakes - all the time in all honesty as we're human. This is where the toxicity would come up even more. "I don't want Wuhtah to handle my report as there was a staff report against them last week and she handled the report badly and gave the wrong punishments out before." That makes the admin feel like absolute trash - coming from me. I don't think I have ever been biased or corruptful (to my knowledge, I know others will have opinions) - but seeing that would demotivate me pretty quickly as well and make it so I don't pick up as many reports. So again, is there a compromise?

Admin side of SM understands this to be an issue as it's understaffed in the subteam. They are currently recruiting to get more help on their side to reduce the time it takes to respond/research/conclude staff reports.

Why would anyone but you and the staff management involved (admin side or support side) need to see the staff report on the staff member? You are given transparency on the outcome of the report, are you not? Given if that's in the public eye or not, I don't think that would make a difference at all, and seeing how administrators are already getting disrespected left and right - making staff reports visible to everyone when it's truly not needed, is not something I would support. As for permissions with player reports, it's hard to make it so ONLY the players who are reported get to see it and whatnot, it would be a true mess as some reports have 3+ witnesses and 4+ reported parties - if that makes sense.

This would make my life... TOO easy... +1

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