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I should preface immediately that I am in no way a professional in this area. I'm not staff, I don't know the innerworkings of Property Management, and even my tag as 'mapping team' shouldn't give me credit in the overall grand scheme of this thread. I merely offer this as insight into a long-time player and observer's conclusions on why this might be the atmosphere of property at the moment. My knowledge here is entirely derived from what I've gathered via second hand information from property management over months, and from personal observation and high activity within the property market of GTA:W. This thread should be the foundations for a discussion to be built upon regarding property and it's atmosphere, and in no way should be a critique of property management or it's innerworkings. I recall a time about a year ago exactly, where Mirror Park houses, Vespucci Canal houses, and other non-complex properties were posted in the Properties section of the forums for sale, although infrequently. They were always quick to sell, but sometimes, these properties would sit. Maybe they were too expensive, maybe the mapping wasn't right, maybe something about the area was wrong. But today, a property that even is considered 'stand-alone', is bought for buy-out within 10 minutes of the posting, regardless of any aspect of it. Often these properties aren't even given a chance for sale. Instead, they're put up as [4TRADE]. Why is this the case? What happened? As a preface, here is some commonly used lingo. NOTE: These are not all official terms. Dim 0 - The set dimension in which embodies the exterior world of GTA:W. When entering a property, you are transported into a different dimension, ranging in numbers. In other words, Dim 0 exclusively refers to 'outside'. Stand-alone property/Non-complex property - This refers to a property in which is entered through a door in Dim 0 that is dedicated exclusively to that one property. Ex: A stand-alone apartment, meaning it is an apartment that is accessed through an exclusive exterior door found in Dim 0, and not through an access menu. An example of a stand-alone property's address would be: 2249 Bay Avenue. NOTE: Although stand-alone properties can refer to both houses and apartments, they are rarely applied to house properties, given referring to a house property as a 'stand-alone property' is a null point. Complex Menu Property - This refers to a property in which is accessed through a complex menu. Ex: when you approach the door to a large apartment complex, you access a menu of floors, and through that menu of floors, you find your room and subsequently access your property. An example of a complex property's address would be: Elgin House Floor 14 Room 1 Interior Complex Property - This refers to a somewhat new concept, given it was implemented within the last 8 months. These are a hybrid of complex menu, and stand-alone properties. They are complex menu properties in which the mapping team has created an interior for. So instead of navigating a menu to access your property within a complex, instead, you will actually enter a physical lobby, where you will find an individualized door set for your property. An example address of this type of property would be: Vitus Street Complex Apartment 21 Common Theoretical Causes: [LIKELY] Obviously, the population has nearly doubled since June of 2020. The demand for property is at an all time high. Clearly this is a cause for the shift in property's atmosphere, but I thoroughly believe it is not entirely the reason. [UNLIKELY] Inflation has occurred with more money being generated, given more players exist to persist the creation of income. I don't believe this is the case, although it is most certainly true in some aspects, just not regarding housing. [VERY LIKELY] Property has not become more rare, but instead, it's perceived value has increased beyond money itself. [VERY LIKELY] In succession to point 3, the only way to get 'stand-alone properties' nowadays is through map.gta.world, to which is very easily botted, and therefore all properties of any value are taken within minutes of posting. [VERY LIKELY] All properties of any sort of value or rarity are being traded through ooc-dealings, due to points 3 and 4. Yes, there is a higher demand for these properties given more players now exist, and a larger group of veteran players are more interested in purchasing said properties. However, I believe we're witnessing an involuntarily self-influenced artificial inflation of these properties, where the maximum buyout price is simply not enough to justify selling the property for any sort of cash value, exclusively because these properties are such high priority to anyone seeking property assets. It's not even that these are worth so much. It's just a combination of people wanting stand-alone properties so badly, and simultaneously, people hoarding them endlessly, despite having no use for them. Common solutions, and why they won't work: Raising the price of these properties will solve nothing. Sure, maybe a few players will be more inclined to sell them, but what matters to these players is not the money, but the fact they own these assets, and that nobody else can have them until they're ready to pass it off to someone else they feel worthy. Creating more complex menu properties, or interior complex properties will only perpetuate the problem, and create a MASSIVE divide between an excess of these complex properties that nobody seems to want, and an extreme lack of stand-alone properties that everyone seems to lust for. Banning the use of [4TRADE], or trading of properties as a whole will only lead to people resorting to rule-breaking in order to get a 'fair deal' for their properties. This would make the problem much, much worse, and create significant backlash. Opening more stand-alone properties that previously were held exclusively for request-only will work as a temporary solution as people will be more inclined to sell their properties in order to buy these new ones, however, I believe this will only work for a short period, and overall seems very inconvenient for both property management, and staff as a whole. Again, the issue is NOT a lack of these properties, but instead, overwhelming demand and hoarding. So of course, I'm pretty quick to list of common causes and solutions only to immediately diffuse them. What do I think would be a more permanent solution? Permanent solutions: The complete removal of Map.gta.world. -- Now, I'm almost positive this concept will almost instantly lead to backlash as it seems like a removal of player freedom and open market, however, it plays greatly into point 2. In regards to this point however, Map.gta.world is extremely unrealistic, and to me, seems to overwhelmingly bait the idea of hoarding properties in an unrealistic manner. Properties do not foreclose and simply go on a map where people run up to it and spam a buy command, obviously. Instead, they're foreclosed, and placed up for sale through foreclosure bureaus either private or owned by the city/state. Yes they're cheap, but nowhere near as cheap as what is found on Map.gta.world. It is for this same reason that we often find 18 year old lesbian 24/7 workers with two-story mirror park houses. They got it for extremely cheap, they do not have the portrayal correct to own it, they only acquired it because they caught it in time on Map.gta.world, And as a result, they will never sell it, because why would they? It's rare, and it's theirs. This leads to point 2. Regulate the sale of inactive properties through the UCP via application. 'Foreclosure Applications' -- When I say this, I do not mean it like house-requests. Instead, think of a system identical to the lease request menu. Any time a property goes inactive or gets removed from a player via staff, it goes onto the UCP's Foreclosure Application section, where players can view it from a drop down list with preview photos. They can then provide a short application, proof of portrayal on how/why they would own it, and admins can validate this through the same system. Once this player is approved to buy the house, it is then transferred to their hands completely. It is not a lease, they do not have to make payments on it, it is their house. When they decide to sell it, they can sell it on the OPEN MARKET in the property section of the forums, where any player can buy it, thus returning it back into the open-market system of GTA:W's properties. What do these solutions solve?: Regulation of high-demand housing, while retaining open-market freedom expressed among players. High demand housing will now go to players who deserve it, and bare proper portrayal to represent said assets. ONLY INACTIVE PROPERTIES or properties removed via staff jurisdiction will appear on this list. With coding, this entire process will be automated, and will only need one handling property-management admin to handle applications. Once properties are finished by the owner, they can then be sold on the open market, just as they always have been. This will reduce the demand, as players who deserve said properties will now more easily get their hands on it, and players who desire it more yet don't wish to apply will now have a greater chance of purchasing, given that properties will now more available on the property section as a result. Although I fear this might be considered extra work by PM, I also feel that as a whole, it will greatly reduce the weight behind PM's workload. Examples: Seizure of properties due to poor portrayal will now be less common. Concern for botting and misuse of map.gta.world will be rendered null. PM can now control who receives properties based on proper portrayal, and therefore less concern in regards to the longevity of that properties activities and use. Less questions and private messages asked in regards to property availability, openings, etc. More properties becoming available in the properties section of the forums means more players can access and obtain as demand reduces due to regulation of foreclosures. I hope this thread can act as a spur of discussion between PM, staff, and the playerbase regarding this debated topic, and I hope my solutions can provide a sense of reason when forming potential conclusions about this ongoing epidemic. Thank you for reading! TL;DR: Remove Map.gta.world, regulate inactive properties through a new section of the ucp called 'Foreclosure Applications'. People can create a short application for said properties, PM can verify portrayal concerns, and they can be issued property accordingly. Once they own the property, they can sell it on the open market as they always have. This will solve demand issues, portrayal issues regarding improper ownership, and overall bolster the open market of properties for everyone, including those who don't wish to apply. I apologize for any sort of confusion in my manner of typing atm. I'm recovering from a surgery and I'm on a shit ton of pain medication.

The Plot 暗算

The Serbian Mafia's Involvement in Los Santos June 2021 A criminal underworld is filled with different organizations. One of the most influential groups out of the handful there is, the Serbian mob. Srpska Mreza, a mafia like no other of it's cultural background, keeps hold of it's reputation on the street. Known for extortion, illegal gambling, prostitutions, arms trafficking, drug trafficking, and vehicular operation; they make their income from multiple rackets. Violence is like no other when it comes to the Yugoslavian crew, they'd kill their own kind to keep their reputation and name alive. From the older generation to the youngest, violence carries on as if it was a natural hobby. Key figures in the Srpska Mreza CO, detached themselves to start a new legacy behind the OCG's name. Andrej Crncević and Darko Dragović were both main targets from the Srpska Mreza CG. Andrej with family roots that go back far in the ranks, took a leadership role in the new wave with Darko at his side. Now a duo of a new decade with so much attached to it, face a new challenge. Crncević and Dragović continue the elder's thrive to be wealthy. Their new era crew showed money in cars, clothes, jewelry, houses, and women. Tight knit the group stays, most are friends or family from the same neighborhood. Everyone kept a close tie with family roots when it came to the influx of Serbian ethnicity in the city. They own their own community in Los Santos. Loud, fast cars in all times of day, complaints called into the local authority, that'd be Crncević's and Darko's crew. The money continued to come in, they kept an organized trail of how much was accounted for and how much went out. Their notable members consist of about eight in numbers. Darko Dragović, the go-to speaker for the the boss (Andrej Crncević). He runs show on the street. He is the overseer for the criminal gang., whom are supposedly the two main attractions to the new generation of Serbian criminal involvement in Los Santos. Damjan Karadzvić and Mirko Vesović being the key members on the street, held their weight. Not so much the friendly type the new generation were expected to be since, the street war between majority of the original members and it's known rivals. Mirko Vesović, the soft spoken assassin and Damjan Karadzvić, a stone personality killer represent their leader's legacy with ease. Respect, money and power is the key mentality for the atmosphere these men created. It's carried throughout the ranks ambitiously, it's something they stowed into the soldier's person concretely. This trio was no stranger to the mob rules and background. The current key holders to the street; they run main operations for the Eastern European gang. A glamorous lifestyle they continued to live. Fancy clothes, luxury cars (estimated around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars), jewels, Real Estate, fronts (businesses), models, and the club scene were the hobbies participated in by the OCG. August 2022 To be continued...

Short description: Ability to use phone without breaking animation Detailed description: This may have been suggested before so apologises if so, but it would be great to be able to use the phone UI without it making you automatically stand up. Often I'm sitting around and I get a text but soon as I open my phone I stand up and have to reanim afterwards. Commands to add: No command just doesn't pull you out of an animation if you're in one. Items to add: N/A How would your suggestion improve the server? Quality of life perhaps? Just means people don't have to reanim if they're sitting down and want to use the phone! Additional information: N/A

Hate Valley Hardcore a/k/a Death Valley Hardcore a/k/a HVHC a/k/a DVHC The Los Santos City Attorney’s office announced civil actions against members apart of a white supremacist gang within the El Burro Valley this Tuesday, saying the filings could result in evictions, officials said. Fred Feuer said he filed nuisance abatement orders against several members and associates of the El Burro Valley Peckerwoods, a known white supremacist gang that has been accused of involvement in drug and weapons trafficking, identity theft and other crimes. According to the complaints, the properties in El Burro and Saint Lewis Park were known havens for drug and gang activity. Feuer said Los Santos police officers have recovered stolen vehicles and credit cards, heroin and methamphetamine on multiple occasions at the El Burro home of Tommy Reed, a Peckerwood gang member who is also accused of having ties to the local extinct gang, Death Valley Skinheads, a white supremacist prison gang. Investigators have been monitoring the properties for months, but Feuer said it was especially important to take action against racist criminal organizations at a time when hate crimes are perceived to be rising. "January 2009: Police officers in El Burro, San Andreas, arrested two members for their suspected roles in a possibly racially-motivated murder attempt. Authorities charged Robert Pickersgill 31 and Kyle Wagner, 29, with attempted murder and gang membership, among other charges. A third individual, Tyler Corbett, 22, was also arrested for witness intimidation and gang membership. The suspects are accused of beating a 19-year-old Hispanic man in November 2008 at a mobile home park in Hemet in the El Burro Valley. The perpetrators allegedly knocked the victim unconscious and then stomped and kicked him in the head. He now resides in a long-term care facility with permanent brain damage. Authorities suspect that the attack was racially motivated, possibly even a reaction of the elections. These suspicions stem from comments reportedly posted to the group's Web site, expressing anger over the results of the election, as well as the proximity in time between the attack and the election. The Web site has since been taken down. Tyler was arrested in November, Robert and Kyle in December in January 2009. Local authorities suspect that the gang may have been involved with four other possibly racially-motivated attacks which were also committed in the area around the same time." The Fight against White Supremacist Gangs El Burro Valley, Los Santos “We’re now fighting to prevent white supremacist gangs from infesting our neighborhoods, and they bring with them, of course, this toxic mix of violence and crime and hate,” one local deputy said. Each home that was subject to an abatement complaint is located near a high school or middle school, Feuer said. Photos from inside one of the homes showed swastikas and Confederate flags adorning the walls, as well as the Peckerwoods’ gang crest, National Socialist swastikas and other radical right-wing imagery of white supremacist enigma and propaganda. But that’s very different from how officials have fought black and Latino gangs across L.S. For 25 years, the city’s anti-gang policies have provoked criticism from civil rights groups for sweeping up young minority men who are in some cases not associated with gangs at all. In many cases, the city’s gang injunctions allow police officers the ability to essentially decide who they think are gang members and arrest them for violations as small as loitering in public. The policy has spurred multiple lawsuits over the years. In March of 2016, the city agreed to pay $30 million to settle a lawsuit over the injunctions, and now the American Civil Liberties Union is separately suing the city over the policy, arguing it violates the rights of thousands of young minority men. “These injunctions are put in place with a total lack of due process,” says Melanie Ochoa, an ACLU lawyer. “Black and Latino young men bear the brunt of this policy.” L.S.’s actions against the Peckerwoods highlight the wide difference in how the city treats white and minority gangs: When black and brown gang members cause violence in a neighborhood, officials crack down with blanket actions that affect thousands of young men who in many cases aren’t involved with a gang at all. When white gang members do the same, there’s a small-scale, targeted response. The white supremacy factor is there for recruitment purposes, to tell young whites that they are already part of the movement because of their ethnicity. Gangbangers that end up hitting the slammer get clicked up with their race, regardless of their affiliations. Once they get back on the streets, they use that same mindset as they have on the yard and use ethnicity as a tool to recruit. Authorities believe that Death Valley Skinheads gang members may also have been behind other unsolved murders that involved punishing members believed to have betrayed the group’s trust. Law enforcement officers discovered the dead body of John Lynch, a DVSH member, in an alley behind a housing complex in March 2002. Authorities suspect Lynch had been punished for participating in a revealing television interview about the gang in February 2001 and because other PENI members suspected he was stealing drug money from the gang. White Supremacist gangs' grooming & recruitment • Since their birth, peckerwood gangs have moved through three phases which are characterized by different organizational emphases (social, political, and economic). These phases are dynamic and complex making them difficult to describe. On one hand, peckerwood gangs noticeably changed through the successive phases that I describe. On the other hand, not all gangs followed the same pattern in the same way. Some clearly shifted to the next organizational phase, others retained much of the prior organizational focus, and others moved back and forth between the two. • These phases are neither neat nor homogeneous developments that result from subcultural consensus. Instead, internal struggle among participants, conflicts with social control agents, and sometimes cooperation with other deviant subcultures characterize the processes that shape these phases of development. "It is a conceptual mistake to view skinheads, peckerwoods as street gangs and instead urges that we view them as an “international terrorist youth subculture” The majority of the members are local white teenagers and young adults who originate from the lower social class all the way to the thriving middle class. The gang is noted for drug trafficking, especially methamphetamine. Affiliates of the Death Valley Skinheads have also been previously charged for burglary, aggravated robbery, firearms offenses and car theft. Legacy still lingers the area of the local white supremacist gangs and their vicious rule over the North East. After the swift and effective gang sweep of the white supremacist threat, the majority of the organisation has been transported to different facilities around the state, ultimatetly bringing an end to the old generation, neglecting the power vacuum it had left behind as the younger members of the organisations brought to an end to their existance, some out of hunger or greed for their social standing within the criminal syndicate, others because their protection suddenly disappeared, and many were claimed by addiction to Methamphetamine. The newest generation of young troubled caucasian youth has been known for also accepting members of other ethnicity, specifically southern hispanics. At a time when white supremacist groups are gathering strength around the country, other cities could learn lessons from how L.S. is efficiently and fairly handling the Peckerwoods. At the same time, the city’s treatment of young minority men is a cautionary tale for how not to fight gangs. You might think that white supremacist groups are predominantly in the Deep South, but San Andreas actually has the largest population of “racist skinheads” in the country, mostly concentrated in Southern San Andreas, says Joanna Mendelson, a San Andreas researcher who studies hate groups for the Anti-Defamation League. The Hate Valley Peckerwoods are a loosely organized group with multiple cliques surrounding areas such as Murrieta Heights, El Burro Heights a/k/a The Valley, and even in Mirror Park where the oldest of all cliques predates before it's extinction took place. The terminilogy 'peckerwoods' was originally a derogatory term for white people developed in the prison system that has since been adopted by white supremacist groups themselves. Groups tend to organize themselves geographically, identifying with an area like the Hate Valley Valley and, in some cases, tattooing their zip codes onto their skin, Medina says. Among white nationalists, “there’s a kind of a continuum that ranges in ideological sophistication and criminal enterprise,” Medina says. While the Peckerwoods support white nationalist ideas and use symbols like the burning swastika in its logos and tattoos, it doesn’t focus on the ideological strain of white nationalism. Instead, that ideology is more of a backdrop to criminal activities: The group’s involved in drug sales, meth production, gun running, and theft, just like any other street gang. “Essentially the Hate Valley Peckerwoods are straight thugs,” Medina says. “Their ideology is tangential to their criminal activities.” He estimated that the group’s membership was about 100 people or less, with the majority facing time in county jails or penitentiaries throughout the state. It is estimated that less than a dozen people have been charged in connection with it over the years.

Out of character information We are looking for players who want to develop well-rounded and realistic characters,. If you are interested in climbing the ranks quickly you should definitely look at another faction to join. Character development is key within this faction and our main focus will be on creating unique and realistic characters, please note: The majority of the faction are 2nd to 3rd generation Serbian-Americans, we do not forbid fresh of the plane characters but it would be better to ask one of the leaders for more information on creating a character for the faction. All members must enter and progress in the group through IC methods, we are happy to assist every new and veteran member in joining the faction by assisting with a name and a story-line in order to join this faction. This faction has been in development since the beginning of June 2021. Only members of the faction/discord with specific permissions are allowed to post screenshots on the thread. Faction discord; https://discord.gg/PGQMFw5v Questions/concerns can be PMed to @Bellagio @Yevty

HEY PAL.... CAN I JOIN NOW??... THE BIG BAD RANCHO 13 GANG...

Short description: SMS Notifications in chatbox Detailed description: Would be quite helpful to have SMS notifications appear in your chatbox, I often miss the notification at the bottom left if I'm in roleplay or there's a lot going on. It would be handy to have either the SMS notification state in chat 'SMS message received' or have the notification that currently pops up on there for longer. Could make this toggable if needed. Commands to add: No command needed unless someone wants to toggle the sms notifications from the chatbox /togsmsnotif Items to add: N/A How would your suggestion improve the server? Quality of life, means no more missing texts. Additional information: N/A

Turning Point轉折點

I think when you spread the wealth around it's good for everybody.

Hell no.

why do they look like children, Shindy?

Some time later..

Short description: Add alcohol to the drug use examine in /examine Detailed description: Add alcohol consumption to players' /examine, similar to how it would display if a player had recently ingested drugs. E.g. "the smell of alcohol lingers around X", "glazed eyes, dilated pupils", etc. Commands to add: None Items to add: None How would your suggestion improve the server? Quality of life update Additional information:

White Dragon 白龍

I'll lock this as everything you wrote here is already being discussed internally. However putting /every/ house purchase behind an analysis from PM is a big no go as they're already dying from the amount of work. It's a subject everyone is actively debating too, and we'll also use your thread to bring more ideas. Thank you.

I can't believe you wrote this while completely zooted but I agree with it all

My real problem is there's not enough scrutiny as to who owns what. Anyone can own anything anywhere, there are no pre-requisites to owning these things, there's no downsides to owning these things. People don't have to pay bills, maintain a home, or anything for that matter. That's part of the issue, that perpetuates the unbelievably stupid hoarding culture. Also, limit owned properties to 1 residential, 1 business unless applied for.

Shout out to @stubby for the wicked graphics.

Short description: Allow for visible cuts, bruises and injuries to be added with /setinjuries Detailed description: Let's say your character was mugged in an alleyway and got their face smashed, or your MMA fighter character got annihilated during a match, or you just got clawed by a wild animal, etc... Or you want to show blood on your apron after you chopped some meat; there are no proper ways to express this as of now, not everyone will /examine you to see your injuries unless you remind them to. I'm sure ya'll have seen that Menyoo has a damage overlay menu, I was messing around with that and came up with this idea. A menu like the clothing store/barbershop can be used to apply injury overlays that remain unless you remove them. This lets people express injuries a lot better and realistically. Commands to add: Nothing Items to add: A menu like the clothing store or something How would your suggestion improve the server? Big quality of Life improvement, people can utilize /setinjuries in an expressive way as explained above Additional information: I took the liberty of making this concept:

+1 - And for those who wouldn't like it, make a /toggle command as well to allow chat notifications or the small blip above the map, like ads.

I know from roleplay in SAMP for over 6 years that High Schools are far more heavily roleplayed and have an inclusive role, rather than Universities which is mostly a 5% group of players that are rather excluded. We should also keep in mind that the amount of teenage characters is much higher than the students one, as many people do not pursue that education after they graduate high school. 100% agree.

"School, classes, minor drug use, frats, house parties, dorm parties, hanging at the mall etc etc just sounds enjoyable and like fun, char. development RP. " That's U.L.S.A., though. I'd rather witness a Davis high-school for the locals in South-Central over a private boarding school.

I think you oughtta do whatever makes you happy! If you can create an interesting enough concept, it doesn't have to be the most unique thing to get a bunch of people involved. I'd recommend getting to know more people by joining other factions of various kinds, whether legal or illegal, and propose the idea to them a while down the line.

This jawn needs official ASAP like Rocky

The Art of Thieves 1 The Art of Thieves 2

14장 "Chapter — 14" 14장