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Smilesville

Legal Penalty for a CK

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3 minutes ago, WendyRed said:

 

The issue wasn't the RP in the moment. It was a very tense situation and it was obvious that if something didn't change it was going to escalate to violence. It's the type of thing you see in both real life newscasts and on movies and tv and the RP fit that type of situation. I mentioned it because there were no consequences afterwards other than maybe a few hours of jail time. It doesn't explicitly fit the thread topic as the cop was only PKed (I think) but it is illustrative of why this suggestion came up, because there is a lack of consequences for this type of RP right now.

I think I need to step in and give you a refresher on the scenario you're speaking about, simply because you weren't there. I'm not sure what you heard or who told you what, but that doesn't matter - but as the gang member that PKed that cop, I can assure you that it was roleplayed out thoroughly. If you have questions about the gang's roleplay and it's thought process you are always free to inquire with it's leadership or as Ethanol stated, report it directly to FM. I personally would advise against using a situation you weren't present for and making up details about it to further push a narrative.

 

There were three groups present. 

 

1. The gang, the Barrio - 12 members strong only at this scenario.

2. The police officers, 2 were present, and 1 FD was present.

3. Civilians. A total of 3, not counting the other four that were fighting on the side of the Barrio at the time.

 

No sirens were on, no lights were on. There was no dash cam on. The bank was further away and all shooters were from across the street and in an alley. As far as the final murder of the officer, it was done right behind his cruiser and out of sight of any cameras - as the situation has already been looked into and I've already discussed this with other police officers and fire department to make sure all avenues were covered on a fair ground, as the police were presently trying to get as much information as possible to move forward on an IC basis and with the limited data they could get from available sources - they couldn't move forward with anything. 

 

As far as the penalty for actions, I think we can all say we are on board with this. I don't see a reason why anyone shouldn't be, but you also have to understand that this is a double edged blade and when you're talking about putting away characters for their crimes, especially for "life sentences" that this means the law and police department will have to do two to three times the work they're doing now. What I mean by that, in example, is that they can jail someone for 2-3 days or more for their crimes and have very little evidence pointing to the fact. If you're talking in the future of having a CK-life sentence, then you'll need actual evidence and not just suspicion. 

 

Thanks!

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WendyRed    4
18 minutes ago, kestrelbirdman said:

I think I need to step in and give you a refresher on the scenario you're speaking about, simply because you weren't there. I'm not sure what you heard or who told you what, but that doesn't matter - but as the gang member that PKed that cop, I can assure you that it was roleplayed out thoroughly. If you have questions about the gang's roleplay and it's thought process you are always free to inquire with it's leadership or as Ethanol stated, report it directly to FM. I personally would advise against using a situation you weren't present for and making up details about it to further push a narrative.

 

There were three groups present. 

 

1. The gang, the Barrio - 12 members strong only at this scenario.

2. The police officers, 2 were present, and 1 FD was present.

3. Civilians. A total of 3, not counting the other four that were fighting on the side of the Barrio at the time.

 

No sirens were on, no lights were on. There was no dash cam on. The bank was further away and all shooters were from across the street and in an alley. As far as the final murder of the officer, it was done right behind his cruiser and out of sight of any cameras - as the situation has already been looked into and I've already discussed this with other police officers and fire department to make sure all avenues were covered on a fair ground, as the police were presently trying to get as much information as possible to move forward on an IC basis and with the limited data they could get from available sources - they couldn't move forward with anything. 

 

 

Actually, my character was there. She, in fact, left the scene in your character's car after the shooting. He pulled out and honked at her and said something like "Come on Gringa! We're leaving!" She hesitated then ran out and got into his car. For the majority of the events she was beside the pillars by the bank and when shots were fired she immediately ducked behind them out of fear of catching a stray round. He even told her when they got back to the Bloque that he did what he had to do and seemed concerned about her reaction to what she'd seen. I strongly remember that because it factored into my RP of her making excuses for his actions over the next few days. "Oh, he's not really that bad, he does it because he has to." was something she often mentally told herself. 

 

I remember more civilians being there but it was also a super chaotic RP once things got going and ICly, my character was sure it was going to escalate into a riot or maybe a shooting at any moment, that's why she stood by the pillars.  So I may have confused other gang members with civilians in that scenario.

I wasn't privy to the follow up OOC discussions of course and didn't know that it had been discussed and it was decided there wasn't enough evidence to move forward.  

Anyway, the entire point of my mentioning it was as an example of how these kinds of actions don't have consequences. If this specific instance didn't have consequences because of followup OOC discussions then it is clearly a bad example, my apologies.

 

Edited by WendyRed
Spelling fixes

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FearnR    24

Would definitely be something to consider when DOC is up, i'm sure there will be lots of immersive things we can do around arresting when that time comes. 

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DeadlyMask    1
On 2/19/2019 at 11:21 PM, borhoi said:

As of now, there is no incentive for criminal role players to RP fear of justice for their crimes. As a member of PD, even the harshest jailtimes I've given out only amount to a few days. As someone who has also engaged in criminal RP, the sentences I received when caught were basically negligible. This effects RP in so many ways, but most notably in that it gives criminal role players basic impunity to do as they please with no regard for the consequences.

 

Take a charge like First Degree Murder. In the penal code we use right now, that's a 25 day sentence which, in reality due to the 1 day = 2 hours rule, amounts to 50 hours in jail. This is barely over two days. Once the offender is released, they've lost no memory of the situation that lead to their incarceration, and are free to resume their activities; Usually with knowledge of those they'd like to go after for getting them charged in the first place.

 

This creates an extremely unrealistic environment for criminal RP. Gang members and members of organized crime groups have zero incentive to cooperate with law enforcement, as they know full well that for even the most heinous crimes that would land them in jail for life IRL, they will just be facing a few hours or maybe a few days here.

 

Something needs to be done not only about CK for CK type situations, but for crime ramifications as a whole.

Cops should be afraid to go into impoverished neighborhoods and the penalty should be a straight up CK then too - or how about arresting high ranking organized crime figures and then going about their day? Shouldn't the cops expect a drive-by with AK's after they've dropped the high ranking cartel boss / organized crime boss in prison?

 

MakeThingsFairAgain - 2020!

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iAMTemple    144

I like this idea. However, it would be near impossible without proper forensics that doesn't involve some form of metagaming. If a forensic system was to be introduced with this, I'm 100% down.

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Vash Baldeus    51
Posted (edited)
On 12/17/2018 at 9:22 PM, Smilesville said:

Simply put - if murdering another character results in a CK, then the penalty for that crime should be a "life in prison without the possibility of parole" CK. The only reason I abstain from mentioning the death sentence is because California politics are such that it would never become law, but life in prison absolutely would. The ability to permanently remove a character from the server should not come without the potential for an equivalent consequence.

You aware that not all murder cases end up with a Life sentence, also that should be role-played through proper trial and only if the person who executed the CK is caught with substantial evidence proving he was the person who did it. Otherwise simply imprison a person just cause he CK'd someone even if he was not caught would be stupid. Currently there is no forensics system what so ever, so without going into the gray area of Metagaming in order to do investigation you can't do this.

 

Also suggest you read this: 

6 hours ago, DeadlyMask said:

Cops should be afraid to go into impoverished neighborhoods and the penalty should be a straight up CK then too - or how about arresting high ranking organized crime figures and then going about their day? Shouldn't the cops expect a drive-by with AK's after they've dropped the high ranking cartel boss / organized crime boss in prison?

 

MakeThingsFairAgain - 2020!

 

Meaning the same should apply to Police Officers who imprison a gang member and should expect to be gunned down if not worse. If that happens, they shouldn't be able to return to PD with a new name.

Edited by Vash Baldeus

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Ylva    16
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Meaning the same should apply to Police Officers who imprison a gang member and should expect to be gunned down if not worse. If that happens, they shouldn't be able to return to PD with a new name.

 

If you go down that route, you’d find an insanely large turn over of Detective/Police Officer characters in divisions that are precisely aimed to counter said groups, be it gangs or criminal organizations.

 

If they can’t return to the PD under a new name, then they’ll have to go through yet another three to four months just to be eligible for that position once more, more so in the scope of Detectives but Police Officers it would be the same, about two to three months to get said position they possibly held previously.

 

All you’re going to enforce with that suggestion is a fear of people joining certain divisions and to some degree, the LSPD all together because of the fear that their work, be it months or up to a years worth of constant effort would be wiped out from under them for simply doing their jobs and being placed back at the start of the entire process because they annoyed the wrong illegal group.

Edited by Ylva

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Vash Baldeus    51
1 minute ago, Ylva said:

 

If you go down that route, you’d find an insanely large turn over of Detective/Police Officer characters in divisions that are precisely aimed to counter said groups, be it gangs or criminal organizations.

 

If they can’t return to the PD under a new name, then they’ll have to go through yet another three to four months just to be eligible for that position once more, more so in the scope of Detectives but Police Officers it would be the same, about two to three months to get said position they possibly held previously.

 

All you’re going to enforce with that suggestion is a fear of people joining certain divisions and to some degree, the LSPD all together because of the fear that their work, be it months or up to a years worth of constant effort would be wiped out from under them for simply doing their jobs and being placed back at the start of the entire process because they annoyed the wrong illegal group.

IRL is the same, you work as a police officer? You risk your life. no matter the division

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Ylva    16
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

IRL is the same, you work as a police officer? You risk your life. no matter the division

 

That’s true, but you’re in a roleplay setting. Death in the line of duty is a thing, but simply being removed from your position with no possible hope of rejoining will not only demotivate the player, it will whittle down the LSPD as some people will not and do not find it enjoyable to constantly start from scratch.

 

You’ll not only end up with under qualified people in place to fill said spots that have been made vacant, but a lowering of the general quality from the LSPD as a whole. There have to be constant numbers coming in to fill the gaps that are lost, by doing so eventually the standards must be lowered to compensate due to the fluctuating numbers of PD members being killed off for once again, doing their job in a roleplay setting.

Edited by Ylva

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Vash Baldeus    51
Just now, Ylva said:

 

That’s true, but you’re in a roleplay setting. Death in the line of duty is a thing, but simply being removed from your position with no possible hope of rejoining will not only demotivate the player, it will whittle down the LSPD as some people will not and do not find it enjoyable to constantly start from scratch.

 

You’ll not only end up with under qualified people in place to fill said spots that have been made vacant, but a lowering of the general quality from the LSPD as a whole. There have to be constant numbers coming in to fill the gaps that are lost, by doing so eventually the standards must be lowered to compensate due to the fluctuating numbers of PD members being killed off for once again, doing their job in a roleplay setting.

As such I expect cops to not Play 2 Win 24-7 like they always do. Meaning if they were outsmarted accept the defeat and post BOLO. As it stands right now even when you run from a Lone officer that is not paying attention  for a second after he cuffed you it is considered non rp. Which happens in real life.

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