Stop the grind shaming

[CHRISTIΔN]

On 12/14/2018 at 4:27 PM, Tr1bal said:

But I think the RPG's elements should be re-evaluated and put into better use. RPG elements and the true heavy RP should be combined. Its like the incredible graphics of GTAV that just give people motivation to RP and do interact with the visible items. Its the same with RPG'sh elements - they spawn will. If the quality of people playing on the server is good and RP level high then the RPG elements are not the weakness but rather a strength that crates more random interactions here and there and also crates more industrial traffic to the roads.

 

Of course the developers will use any props offered by the GTA universe to flesh out the jobs, but you're naive if you think everyone's going to mix role play into their "grinding". All jobs that offer nothing to the server in regards to role play should be abolished, they only scatter out the players that we need to interact with each other; that's the whole point of this server.

 

On 12/14/2018 at 4:43 PM, Tr1bal said:

To every problem, everybody is pointing out The Update - Rage 0.4 I believe? But at the same time there has been so many updates directed only towards the PD and FD. Maybe the solution with jobs like mining would be to make it a lot less profitable but at the same time place in all kinds of visual eye candy(visual ores, boxes, crates, machinery) and more complex interactions. I think I have been mentioning this from the day one as Ethanol just mentioned too that all of those jobs related to mining  should be separated plus only proper industrial vehicles should be allowed to carry ores and such.

 

Miners having visual ores and firemen having visual fires is fair right?

 

Drop the mining and think outside the box for a second. What we need are jobs that offer roles that are dependent of each other so they may encourage interaction between each other, thus creating role play and at the same time rewarding the player with a paycheck. If you wish to grind in a job, by yourself, then why not just join an RPG server?

Edited February 11, 2019 by CHRISTIΔN

[Pan Grama]

On 12/14/2018 at 2:10 PM, Tr1bal said:

My point is that we all should be able to do what ever makes us happy

Exactly this.

 

When I first joined GTAW and had no idea what I was doing. II ended up at the Garbage Depot by sheer chance. A guy was just going out and he asked me did I want to tag along. So I did. He essentially taught me both GTAW and RP at the same time. We talked in-character while we drove around picking up garbage.

 

When I found out about the clothes store, I made 2 outfits. A street outfit and my garbage clothes. I would log in every day and do a couple of garbage runs, dressed in the outfit, and would ask anyone I saw hanging around to come with me. We even started a little community of garbage workers who would sms each other and ask if we were "working". It was a good ice breaker for new players. We'd honk the horn as we passed each other and someone even set up a radio channel that the trucks used and we'd chat to each other while we picked up trash.

 

GTAW was being a Garbage guy for me for at least the first month that I was here. And I loved it. I'd do a couple of runs a day and treat it as being at work. $3K a day was disposable cash for me and I'd spend it in the clubs at night buying rounds and tipping. I'd still do it if I was able to.

 

I understand that people see scripted jobs as a problem, but it isn't fair to just remove something entirely because it's regarded as non-RP. Somebody somewhere may enjoy doing it for the sake of doing it.

 

I'm honestly hoping that the Garbage job is going to be developed and not just removed because grinding.

[Lance]

People who grind do it for money, simple as that. They grind 24/7, aquire their virtual currency, spend it on expensive stuff. I liked it too back in the day 1-2 runs, it was relaxing, just drive around on that beautiful map, look down at the beautiful view while mining and get some money in the process. Then i though that I don't RP a miner nor a truck driver, i RPed a fairly rich Liquor Store owner, then I decided to quit since for me, it ruined my character. People who do it don't give two shits about their character, all they want is to get virtual currency for no reason. I'm happy that they will be reworking the system to reduce the amount of grind, because "grinders" do nothing to make the server better, they probably barely use forums or discord. 

I have nothing against you if your character does it by the way. 

 

I just hope that they will make jobs dependant on each other, because there's tonns of jobs yet 80% of the grinders spam one - mining. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Lance

[alina2137]

Stupid prices = people doing stupid shit to get money to afford them.
One of these stupid things is grinding.

[Koko]

I find the comparison of an RP profession with mining quite disingenuous, but I'm assuming it's hyperbolic on purpose since they're nothing alike. A PD or FD member can't simply go off duty and claim to be somebody else.

 

Really the issue isn't mining on its own, it's the fact that for 99.9% of people mining is a means to an end, and an OOC means for that matter. You don't see any rich characters with sports cars claiming to be miners or to have ever worked in that field at all (or I have very exceptionally found them in old, archived threads for mining businesses). They generally just "are rich".

 

For every one person that it brings forth creating legitimate RP opportunities, it's taking dozens of others away from any source of interaction with other players until they have the basic luxuries they think are necessary for them to have to start RPing. Nothing's stopping anyone for doing trucking when the new system is in place from what I understand, it'll simply become an occupation based on supply and demand rather than being a side activity with infinite supply and demand that can easily be done with zero RP. Grinding can still be a thing, from what I got though the future will make it so that even grinding requires a minimum of RP to happen and for it to be your character's actual occupation, be it full time or part time. Which will probably make it so that people don't feel the need to grind wearing a mask like they do.

 

All applications are accepted equal, but the application is approved to become a member of a heavy RP server.

[Legate]

Just leave the man alone and let him roleplay a miner. Who ever is shaming you, tell them to go away. If that's what you want to do with your time on the server go right ahead lol.

[KFN]

On 2/12/2019 at 1:39 PM, hentai! said:

Stupid prices = people doing stupid shit to get money to afford them.
One of these stupid things is grinding.

Someone has finally brought up the stupid pricing of things, I mean that's awesome! Because lets be fair the housing prices are great, quite realistic in some places too, which I like. But then you get onto food/drink items which are sold are almost 100$ (apart from the general store snacks.) And then you have a boombox and a mask what cost about 5000$ which is ridiculous, especially in the case of the mask.

But then we have the worse of em all, the vehicle pricing which are ridiculous and in some cases don't even make sense for the car, one example is the Landstalker costing 65,000 when Its meant to be based off of a Land Rover, when a Range Rover aka the Galivanter Baller costs 45,000. How and why is the more luxury car the cheaper one? But don't worry it gets even worse when you get to the classic cars such as the Weeny Issi Classic, the Elegy classic and the Jester Classic, these cars all cost ridiculously huge amounts of cash which I honestly understand why but think there should be a better way around it. And my 'better way around it' is by making the upgrades for different vehicles pricier if they are the sort like the Elegy Classic which goes from something pretty basic to a rocket with the click of a button, I mean it shouldn't be stupid to think that different vehicles should have different upgrade prices if those ones are stupidly quick when fully upgraded wheres others rarely change at all. 

[EliH]

As usual, this is a problem that has haunted the GTA V text RP servers for years. Even back on FiveRP there was a huge dislike amongst a certain vocal minority towards scripts. 

 

It stems from LSRP servers where players never experienced good scripts, and RP created naturally due to the huge playerbase combined with easy/cheap ways to get the essentials (car, clothes, weapons, drugs). 

 

Frankly the only opinion that matters is Nervous’s, and last I saw he has been convinced by that vocal minority (some in staff positions) that scripts were just plain wrong. Unfortunately, this lack of good scripts is why the server is not popular compared to many other RP servers that have 250-1000+ players.

 

To those that say scripts are “RPGish” and bad, I say this: you lack vision. Scripts can be coded to require player interaction, and therefore roleplay.

 

A very simple example since I’m on my phone, remove automatic sales for mining. Create a scripted process involving company owned hardware such as: mine ore -> refine ore to metal -> create object with metal (car, safes, weapons, etc) -> sell to wholesaler.

 

Every step of this can be scripted, with the exception of the sale. Miners then have to actually interact and RP to trade their mined ore to the refiners, the refiners to the manufacturers, the manufacturers to the retailers. This also has the pro of creating an actual player-run economy.

 

TLDR: scripts are good, and if done correctly can be amazing. It’s why every single RP server outside of GTA:W, and formerly FiveRP, and literally every professionally made video game uses scripts.

[Franelli]

55 minutes ago, EliH said:

A very simple example since I’m on my phone, remove automatic sales for mining. Create a scripted process involving company owned hardware such as: mine ore -> refine ore to metal -> create object with metal (car, safes, weapons, etc) -> sell to wholesaler.

The server is moving towards a new era in which player-to-script features would be set to the bare minimum, and player-to-player interactions will draw much more focus. Whatever you have suggested is already being worked on so worry not.

[Vash Baldeus]

On 12/14/2018 at 6:10 PM, WOLPHBYTE said:

Grind shaming..? You mean a logical approach to re-considering an RPG element on a heavy RP server?

I agree there's certain moments where you just don't feel like being around people even though you feel like being IG, but I think the major concern with these certain jobs is that it's becoming an in-game economics issue at some point (if not already). A mininum effort, maximum results kind of thing which eventually leads to GTA:W becoming RuneScape and everyone's just talking in /b with their fishing rods, hatchets and mining tools out. No CD, no fun interactions between people's characters except "You steal anything from that truck, I'll beat yer head in with a rock!". That's not a good way to go about things.

Scripted jobs shouldn't be or become the main focus of why people log in, nor make them rich, but could surely play a big role in entertaining a player when done right.

 

(You know, the whole pressing a button and something happens kinda thing that all animals love?)

 

As much as I agree, roleplay jobs (E.G Bar tending, Security etc) do not yield same profit for the same or more time invested. I mean have you worked at a bar? You get max of 2,000  to 3,000 per one hour or two for bar tending while the owner gets at least 20 to 30 grand after paying salaries. People want to have the ability to buy at least one vehicle they want and progress their character and doing so over weeks and month while not having much time to be online they resort to the only fast way to get a starting point which is the grind. People who have more time can allow themselves to not grind as much. Shall I remind you the day the server started? There was zero roleplay, everybody did the grind 24-7 to get their shit started. 

 

Also have you seen the obscene pricing of alcohol drinks in clubs? a glass of whiskey starts around 50 and more.. while it's real life counterpart is quarter that if not less. What I mean also some people want to portray owning a high end car for example the Schafter V12 which goes for about 180 at dealers which is a decent car, but the road tax kills their ability since they need to have 20% of the car dealership price each week to pay those taxes. Which forces them to grind in order to be able to pay those while other payment means do not yield the same profit.

 

Furthermore have you worked at a garage an a mechanic? They pay you once a week and it's about 10 to 15 grand (last knowledge from working at Auto Exotic), you understand that for a week it is counted as peanuts really, you can make that much with 1 to 2 runs mining or doing a few runs as courier job. The current way business owners pay out it just forces people to grind in order to be able to pay for things, same issues of employee being paid peanuts while owners take thousands into their pockets after paying those peanuts (E.G. LSRP, suffers from major inflation while working at a bar pays you peanuts) So yes, people will divert to grind jobs in order to be able to pay for things.

 

Want it to change? Make the business owners pay a reason able or comparable pay an hour that way you'll pull people off from grinding.

Last time I applied for bar work, the salary for two hours of opening is 2,000 from the owner while if you are lucky and get tips you can get up to 8 grand for two hours.. which is if you are lucky to get 6 grand in tips. What I'm saying is, people understand that things cost money and grind is the current available option to be solvent and be able to pay for things.

 

20 hours ago, Franelli said:

The server is moving towards a new era in which player-to-script features would be set to the bare minimum, and player-to-player interactions will draw much more focus. Whatever you have suggested is already being worked on so worry not.

The current situation where Player-To-Player is a nice idea when for example a Player employs another Player for a job he pays a decent wage that could compare to doing a Player-To-Script job for the same time invested. Currently this is not the case, if that does not change then people will continue to grind.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Vash Baldeus