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GTAW's Disdain for Wealth and the Deliberate Erosion of Money


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13 minutes ago, Caracosa said:

When Henry VIII gets the throne he starts killing all his wives because he's obsessed with having a male heir.

That's some weeeeird example man

Also like... that's not what happened????

Taylor-Swift-Is-Confused-and-Questions-W

Edited by Rybyn
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4 hours ago, Slamdance said:

Make low-end housing and vehicles more accessible to poorer players but offer it at a premium.

 

4 hours ago, Nervous said:

There are lot of GOV opportunities and projects

 

3 hours ago, Spenser said:

grinding in your suit and tie to fund your own business

 

 

 

Literally go to GOV.gta.world . There's something to be said for GOV not necessarily being very active in promoting their services but you can get business loans and grants.

 

If your company will benefit the people of Los Santos by providing employment, you can even get subsidized and not have to pay back the full amount.

 

There are resources available, people, you just need to utilize them.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Spenser said:

the taxes get bigger and bigger

 

You're a Lawyer IC. The solution is very simple. File a lawsuit and have taxes removed. The people are currently not being adequately represented in Government and therefore should not be taxed.

 

'No taxation without representation!'

 

 

5 hours ago, Spenser said:

They needlessly restrict new players from acquiring sufficient capital for person-to-person interaction

 

Again, I can go fill out a form and put some effort into drafting a business concept. GOV will hand me 500k+  to get things going once i've gathered a few people and laid out a solid concept. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Spenser said:

they no longer consider those experiences worth the price that comes attached, or vice versa

 

I agree with this fully. Unless I have a working OOC relationship with someone or a group where we have discussed RP story-arcs and concepts etc. I will never be able to get someone to pay any kind of reasonable price for Lawyer services for example.

 

It is very, very difficult to get players to part with their money for the sake of RP and player-to-player interaction.

 

 

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I consider the government's business subsidies to be a solution to a problem that should not have existed in the first place. I've spoken with Rockford at decent length about the subsidies, how the government can actively help frame the economy and etc. What he told me is what I had already assumed: that, yes, the government does provide subsidies to businesses for their expenses, but not at the scale that would be necessary to reverse a virtual recession (unless through scripting additions) and ultimately, at the end of the day, that is a system of "trickle-down economics." I'm sure that you have all become familiar with the euphemism that was trickle-down economics and its actual effect on an economy. The problem is not that businesses need more money, though that is a problem and businesses need money. However, for the sake of the experience, businesses need that money to come from players via direct interaction. That is, after all, the goal of an RP server. The position held by most people on this server, I think, is that money should come less from grind jobs and more from person-to-person jobs. I agree, and I think a lot of these measures were instituted to further that goal. I also believe they had unintended consequences that have hindered the same goal they were working towards because of how players chose to allocate their wealth when put in this position. And, again, to write that off as merely the failure of poor character portrayal will not fix the economic issue it has caused. This is akin to a recession IRL: there was more money than there were people, the economy was growing too fast, and the staff halted that growth to keep a lid on portrayal. But that is what a recession is... when an economy suddenly grows at a much slower pace and niche markets become stagnant. Business subsidies will keep individual unprofitable businesses afloat, perhaps, but the businesses will still be unprofitable because subsidies are patchwork and the underlying force that causes that has not been addressed.

 

As pertains the statement directly about my IC character, I agree. In the name of storytelling, perhaps my character has reached a climax and it is time for a falling action if there is nowhere else to direct energy upwards. That is still not a solution to the problem at large. I appreciate the storytelling aspect of an RP server and that is why I choose to participate, but ultimately if the mechanics behind the economy are flawed or leave room for flaws, there will be problems. Players do not need to look at the economy as a rigid mechanism with rules, laws and cycles, but if the economy is to be managed properly, the admins do, because that is simply how an economy operates. It will not do what you tell it to.

Edited by Spenser
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11 minutes ago, Rybyn said:

That's some weeeeird example man

Also like... that's not what happened????

Lol sorry, I'm being a little jokey. I'm talking about fiction/drama (GTAW) rather than academic explorations of politics/economics/whatever.

I'm just trying to say that being "the king" doesn't mean all the drama is about politics. Many stories about Henry focus on the courtly drama and romance, they focus on character drama, right?

Being a top businessman can be the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Rybyn said:

That's some weeeeird example man

Also like... that's not what happened????

Taylor-Swift-Is-Confused-and-Questions-W

 

giphy.gif

 

 

Serious note however. I really do not see the problem people are bringing up. I have a wealthy character, and in no way am I just 'getting richer'. I'm paying taxes and its (for me) equalling out the wealth gap. It's moving to realism, if you don't like it. There's always tax evasion (get that penal code some use). And on the subject of tax evasion, if you wanted to RP wealthy you'd be able to properly do it. Since almost all companies IRL have found ways to abuse loopholes in the system I'm sure you can too.

Edited by Mecovy
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1 hour ago, Mecovy said:

 

giphy.gif

 

 

Serious note however. I really do not see the problem people are bringing up. I have a wealthy character, and in no way am I just 'getting richer'. I'm paying taxes and its (for me) equalling out the wealth gap. It's moving to realism, if you don't like it. There's always tax evasion (get that penal code some use). And on the subject of tax evasion, if you wanted to RP wealthy you'd be able to properly do it. Since almost all companies IRL have found ways to abuse loopholes in the system I'm sure you can too.

I'm pretty new here and not completely familiar with the economy yet, but I really like the idea of companies being able to commit tax evasion. This could create a foundation for auditing firms that seek to detect this kind of thing.

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Respectfully, I disagree. I think there's too much wealth, not enough poverty.

Why must everyone have a high-end car? Or a business? Or have to own/lease a building?

 

I feel like most players on the server aim for a high profile and getting rich. Everyone I see has a nice car, own a couple of properties or more, always dress in a suit, indulge themselves in the newest feature that has been released to show how much money they have, etc.

 

I've announced it before that there is a major lack of "hood rp" or "poverty rp" overall. Personally, I feel like the economy is way to lenient on new players. I feel like the new updates are great for the economy and I have hope it will improve in the future. Though, in my opinion, there needs to be a revamp of the whole economy system.. In addition, I think role-players need to put in their part too rather than just "grind to get rich".

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You address the issue of having insufficient capital provided to players to initiate a player-based business interaction, thus minimizing the stagnation of role-playing a proper wealthy businessman, am I correct?

 

Diminishing the stagnation is a possible outcome if/when Government allow the players to have limited capital, funds, to create their own start-ups. Not only it would be a short-term solution to introduce fresh-blood to the business sector, but let you grow in cumulative to expedite the process. Regardless, you have to take the following well-said quote into account, given your role-play corners the Real Estate market:

 

19 hours ago, Slamdance said:

It's the same old story from every GTA roleplay server economy: stagnation through lack of growth. This happens for two main reasons:

  • Lack of scale — a dollar isn't worth the same when buying a house as when buying a car.

 

The probability of players willing to spend $600K for a house over $300K for a car is a major concerning question, as you would be comparing a relatively medium-scale of house to a brand-new exotic vehicle, which the latter would often be the most chosen due to their replacement value. You could certainly save, risk your capital or earn more cash to go for a better shot for a villa in Vespucci Canal that costs $1.1M, while staying in rent. You don’t offer the players an exclusive value for their money while leasing or selling an estate that neither is profitable nor wildly desired by the mass amount of players which could be one of the factors that stagnate your role-play in Real Estate. You cannot charm your millionaire audience with low-end to medium-scale houses and surely, players who have low-end income would not prefer to spend $600K for a house.

 

19 hours ago, Slamdance said:

It's the same old story from every GTA roleplay server economy: stagnation through lack of growth. This happens for two main reasons:

  • Lack of basic market forces — mainly depreciation, but the shortage of players acting as lenders and borrowers doesn't help matters.

 

That is your exact problem. You can’t find many businesses for your taste to interact or the server does not generate revenue for such players to have an interest to buy your $600K house. Either way, the players disdain to buy your estates, resulting the value of your properties to depreciate. You now sell your house to $400-450K to attract the interest of community by offering a medium-to-high scale of a property to a low-to-medium. You couldn’t profit and you stagnated in the process.

 

19 hours ago, Spenser said:

Overall, these measures have allowed rich people to stay rich and poor people to stay poor. They needlessly restrict new players from acquiring sufficient capital for person-to-person interaction and they allow that cashflow to head directly to those who were fortunate enough to put themselves in good economic standing EARLY ON.

 

Look at it from a different perspective: Taxes have put a huge obstacle for rich getting richer, which is why they have to rely on their organizations to afford a stable income or else you’d be selling your exotic-vehicle to a depreciating cost I’ve given in an aforementioned example whereas the others don’t have to adopt the same mentality due to the low amount of luxury goods they have. But, I do give you the right that the current state of server economy may not allow you to expand your business as you desire, thus leaving you in a position where you have to do your role-play for the sake of providing a role-play.

 

You have to try out different alternatives to stay alive in the process, simply because you can’t fully anticipate the amount of business players entering the economy and remain healthy even if GTA:W comes up with the most effective solution. Focus on the players who are either new to the community or have low income which forms the majority of the server. Lease or sell properties that is most affordable, valued, and capture the interest of players. Include both low and high-income customers in your portfolio and assign individual interest rates for each: ~10% for up to 250K, ~5% up to 1M and ~2% for 1M and above. That would provide you a player-to-player interaction and unique role-play opportunities as well as promoting a steady growth. No one would object spending 100K to a house over 90K, if it is properly role-played, as well as saving you from long-term stagnation.

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You guys are arguing like any of this matters. The taxes are nothing and nothing is currently regulating the market at ALL. As a redneck truck driver I could make 100k a day. Im at the point where I just place 5000$ to 30000$ bets to random football teams to get rid of the cash. I RP them as 50$ and 300$. 

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