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Reduce Legal Paychecks


Smilesville

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Just now, Frezemis said:

People make bad financial mistakes. You build character development. This is a topic about Legal Factions wages, not my character's poor decisions or shelter situation. I threw my two cents in to contribute to the topic, I'm not sitting on hundreds and thousands of dollars with the faction pay.

Maybe, but your character development is apparently connected to the paychecks you're recieving. I could argue that a PO2 wouldn't make enough money to buy a 200k car, or the fact that most people prioritize getting a place to stay before they spend that amount of money on a sports car, but that's a different story all together. 

 

The point remains the same, though. The rest of the server manages to sustain themselves with the paychecks they are recieving, And before you make the argument of "People can go mine to make even more money than we are recieving in PD!", I seem to recall this being a roleplay server, and not a Cops vs Miners server. The number of people that actually grind mining religiously is drastically smaller than the amount of people in PD and FD.

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4 minutes ago, Rybyn said:

The times I've brought it up to @Ethanol he's told me it was sorted with Gov IC

 

Not sure then, honestly. In general the Government stuff as a whole (State, City, Courts, DOJ) is a bit diced at the moment. They might just be waiting for the new year or further internal discussion before bringing those factions into the mix. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rybyn said:

The times I've brought it up to @Ethanol he's told me it was sorted with Gov IC 

It still seems to be a problem, however - and taking IC measures hasn't provided us with a solution. I would posit that this is indeed an OOC issue due to the sheer amount of support the PD and FD factions receive (and need, mind you) to properly perform their functions. The way taxes are collected and distributed is definitely not balanced towards any sort of real-world simulation for how a city's tax structure actually works and therefore (in my view) falls into the realm of imperfections in the script (which is indisputably an OOC matter.)

 

I would highly encourage more potential solutions to remedy the income disparity and subsequent economic bloating; when a patrol officer's income is on par with a welder (metallurgist) as it is in real life, that can be considered a step towards a realism that will benefit the server as a whole.

 

If we lose officers left and right at that point? Then perhaps it's time to take a look at what about the department makes it unappealing to those people who left, but a paycheck for seemingly OOC reasons is antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish, is it not?

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I have a feeling my reply is being interpreted wrongly. I am fully aware that my character's fault is owning a Jester and not a home or any type of shelter. That's their decision completely, they wanted their dream car and gave up everything else for it. These things happen realistically. I was stating that I don't live comfortably with the PD paycheck and get what I want. I was able to get the Jester cause of the first 40 hour paychecks you get when you start a character which has zero involvement with the PD paychecks. My character saw money and had money so decided to get a car she wanted. I am in no way complaining that the PD paychecks are low/high, I believe they are fine. 

 

1 hour ago, Rybyn said:

That is literally your own fault. The paychecks are stupidly high and people buying sports cars because they have the money without extra thought is half of the problem with it. There's certain people within the faction who have millions because of how active they are.

Yes, It is. People make mistakes. My character buying a sports car has nothing to do with PD paychecks because everyone keeps forgetting the 40 hour paycheck you get when you start which is roughly 200k. Those that have millions should be taxed more. How about working on a bank taxes system, the more you have the more you're taxed.

 

1 hour ago, Thirteen said:

Maybe, but your character development is apparently connected to the paychecks you're recieving. I could argue that a PO2 wouldn't make enough money to buy a 200k car, or the fact that most people prioritize getting a place to stay before they spend that amount of money on a sports car, but that's a different story all together. 

 

The point remains the same, though. The rest of the server manages to sustain themselves with the paychecks they are recieving, And before you make the argument of "People can go mine to make even more money than we are recieving in PD!", I seem to recall this being a roleplay server, and not a Cops vs Miners server. The number of people that actually grind mining religiously is drastically smaller than the amount of people in PD and FD.

Obtaining a Jester did not have anything to do with the faction paychecks. PD doesn't mine due to unrealistic reasons, PD can pick up side-jobs that involve roleplay like being security or what not. I'm pretty sure it's unrealistic and I'm sure the faction leadership has not allowed this. Now, I cannot speak for PD I'm not in a leadership position, I'm speaking for myself.

 

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I added my two cents to contribute. When you discuss these things you have to contribute the hours the person has played, the 200k they get to start off with and if they own anything. You can't say a faction gets paid too much without actually looking into it and gathering your points. Let's not get started about how much the FD makes or GOV or the upcoming DOC faction. Gather the stats first then discuss it with the current economy the server has. Road taxes kills everyone(almost everyone) that doesn't have high amounts of money, the paycheck taxes don't do much of an impact. 

 

So, I went through a few of the posts here and agree with this.

8 hours ago, Westen said:

Personally I don't agree with this point. If I'm spending the time to be on duty as opposed to doing something else to earn money (a faction is a job after all) then I should be fairly compensated.

 

In my opinion, you should only receive money for an on-duty paycheck as a percentage of your time on duty.

So, at the end of each hour:

 

As a P3+1 I get $2,500/hr I believe. So if I spend 30 minutes on duty that hour I would get $1,250.

This sums up my standing point on this. We are on duty to perform a job to serve the city, if we are off duty we get no pay. Here's the small issue of realism, Officers get salary they do not get paid on their contribution nor do they get paid if they pull extra shifts(as far as I know, could be wrong). If you want to decrease their pay or if you want to level out the economy, throw in more taxes. Throw in taxes on your bank balances, the more you have the more you owe the state. Let the rich pay more taxes while the poor can still find a way to live with it. I wouldn't care if the pay is dropped, I wouldn't care if it was raised. I fluctuate my character around what is given to them, If they aren't getting paid enough then they live in poverty. If they get enough money they'll use it towards something they need or something they'll want.

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2 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

It still seems to be a problem, however - and taking IC measures hasn't provided us with a solution. I would posit that this is indeed an OOC issue due to the sheer amount of support the PD and FD factions receive (and need, mind you) to properly perform their functions. The way taxes are collected and distributed is definitely not balanced towards any sort of real-world simulation for how a city's tax structure actually works and therefore (in my view) falls into the realm of imperfections in the script (which is indisputably an OOC matter.)

 

I would highly encourage more potential solutions to remedy the income disparity and subsequent economic bloating; when a patrol officer's income is on par with a welder (metallurgist) as it is in real life, that can be considered a step towards a realism that will benefit the server as a whole.

 

If we lose officers left and right at that point? Then perhaps it's time to take a look at what about the department makes it unappealing to those people who left, but a paycheck for seemingly OOC reasons is antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish, is it not?

I can tell you 100% in America, a welder makes wayyy more than a cop does. And a metallurgist and a welder is not the same thing, but I see your point and I'm not trying to argue the semantics of job relation.

This is basically OOC issue on how a player "should" be RPing their character, but they don't. Because wealth either by assets equals power to most people. The pricing scheme on some of the cars is a little skewed in my opinion because Rockstar doesn't know how to make a car that isn't faster regardless of body type with each new update. That being said, there are some cars, yeah it's plausible for a governmental employee to own it, but by and large, the high-end cars that mostly could only be afforded by people in legal orgs or people who just grind, they shouldn't realistically have. But, telling people how they should be roleplaying is probably bad for business.

 

It honestly comes down to cultivating a believable atmosphere within the community and that's being missed. And I don't think it's by any fault of the staff or the system. It comes down to the player wanting to be realistic in the character. Most people say they do, but the ones who practice it, not nearly as many.



 

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The issue with paychecks is that they do not scale to hours played.

 

A friend of mine who has slightly higher pay as I do in PD plays for probably about 8-10 hours a week, and even with PD paychecks he will get like 20k a week, but that doesn't take into account any random expenses, if you go into a club or two, pay for petrol and other things you can knock off a bit of that too. With the current paychecks he can get a decent enough item per week but it will still take him a bit of time to get anything with that money, weeks in scale.

 

I on the other hand play for a lot longer, on the average amount of time spread over 30 days I had spent online in one form or another I make over 22k on average per day with these paychecks, This is obviously an extreme example and most people wont have such an insane average playtime but for people who don't play very long, 2,000 paychecks before expenses are not insane, but for people who can put a lot of time the base rate of 800 can be nuts.

 

In a way a fairer system would be to stretch the pay out over the course of time, but really people don't like having things taken away from them, people would rather be rewarded, and at the end of the day are people going to be happy to earn less money just because they play more? Some suggestions like actual weekly pay might work to help this out though people would be pissed if they missed the mark of minimum activity by only a few hours, more encouraging people to spend time on duty than off when most people want people to be encouraged off duty, etc.

 

The ultimate result is you kind of just have to treat money as a tool and less of a realistic thing, but if someone tells me I would have to RP all my money then technically the PD pays me 10mil per year if I managed to keep up this average all the year around.

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I've read a number of replies throughout each page and this is just merely another response to help whoever is in charge of this change (if it were to happen).

 

Currently, I run a legal faction with an important mission. Finances are manually tracked by my own spreadsheet and everyone is paid for results rather than hours. I feel like the more you allow a script to do the job for you, the more you become dependent, however, for large legal factions I can see why it's needed to have a script to control finances, there's just too much activity to handle every member. I do think the wages are pretty absurd for legal factions and I feel like it's merely a value to motivate people to stay or join those factions. It's very demanding to roleplay a firefighter or a police officer but even then, the wages that people receive is way too high.

 

On the first few weeks of having my legal faction open, I was attempting to compete with the wages of other legal factions because why would someone join my faction if they can get over 1000 or 2000 for being off duty and/or being on duty but having no roleplay. After a while, I saw this as a problem and I didn't want to make the problem bigger than it is so I started paying a realistic wage for job roles such as a coroner investigator and medical examiner.

 

I honestly don't know how other legal factions are managed nor do I need to know but the issue is bigger than just FD or PD members driving nice cars or having nice houses, it's an issue of competition between other legal factions. At least in my eyes.

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1 minute ago, Enko said:

The ultimate result is you kind of just have to treat money as a tool and less of a realistic thing, but if someone tells me I would have to RP all my money then technically the PD pays me 10mil per year if I managed to keep up this average all the year around.

 


This is a perfect summary of how people should treat money. Money on an RP server is only the product of putting in hours. If you're roleplaying a gangbanger, driving X high end car probably isn't what you need to be doing just because you have the means to do so.

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