Things the community can do to grow bigger?

[Rhea]

Just now, Falrock said:

I really shouldn't have to give real life references for every aspect of our roleplay

I feel like that's one of the big issues, that's what things are being compared to constantly, you can't do x or y because it wouldn't occur in real life in this specific location, I think there really needs to be at least some leniency towards it. Else people who aren't as experienced at roleplay as much as they are disliked here aren't going to want to try and create something new. I feel like that's part of the freedom that this server lacks compared to others, people could do what they want within reason as long as there was extensive roleplay behind it and it made sense.

[milk]

3 minutes ago, Maca said:

 

I'm going to start this off again with saying that I mean none of this to sound attacking or rude.

 

Clearly from the amount of people that have brought up issues  - people's displeasure with the way things are handled is a trend, and from what I can see in this thread here, you're.. not exactly taking what they're saying on-board at all. It should be a sign to admins that this many different -groups- of roleplayers have similar issues, and whether you agree with them or not, you should at least be trying to take what they say into account rather than brush it off and disagree with them. Sitting and attempting to discredit every point brought up by this groups as "just not true" is again, part of the problem. 

 

At the end of the day, this is a video game. It's a server that people play in their free time to have fun. Yes, we need rules and guidelines on what's allowed and what's not, but the level of policing I and many others have seen towards illegal roleplay in general is.. frankly ridiculous, and I can completely understand why people are completely and utterly turned off of the idea of even attempting to create an illegal group.

[Nervous]

6 minutes ago, Fuggle said:

I haven’t played in over a month and I come on here every now and then, but I don’t quite get what you mean Maca, if something hasn’t been done irl it can’t be done here? So people are to copy other irl gangs, people etc yet are also supposed to be unique? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me, I don’t get why you get to choose what’s realistic or not, it’s a few opinions over an entire community. Like that nightclub thing, MC’s can’t have 1 cuz it’s unrealstic, so they are to stick to stereotypes of a dirty run down bar somewhere, stereotypes should be avoided and I guarantee there’s a lot more people here that know more about shit than you do. (Don’t take this as a dig)

He doesn't get to choose what's realistic or not, he provides actual material explaining why it is not realistic and then asks the other party to provide proof if needed. I can tell you for a fact with the cartel thing that there are no cartels working AS CARTELS (THE ENTIRE LEADERSHIP/OPERATION) in the united states because that makes 0 sense after you start digging into what cartels are and how they operate. Maca said that in his post but it was ignored which is a prime case of what happens with factions. We give them criticism pointing out a,b,c they give us examples of completely unrelated things saying we're wrong and then leave saying FM don't let them RP what they want.

 

This is a roleplay server with high standards. While you do not need to copy real life you are expected to treat this as 2018 US, specifically the west coast when creating a faction. If something would not happen because of certain factors then yes, we don't want you to RP that unlike servers with lower RP standards. 

 

We usually also provide an alternative when factions come to us. For example, any full on cartel that wants to operate in the US usually gets a response saying they should RP a few people from the cartel or a group of drug traffickers with ties to it which happens in the US all the time. This part is usually ignored and never brought up in any of their statements on the forums.

 

2 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

There has often been an issue, whether with FM or other admins in general, of "I know what's realistic even if I'm not documented / know nothing of the situation, so I'm telling you how to RP". This leads to very outlandish situations where someone from the staff team is telling an illegal group

"no you can't do that specific thing, it's 'not realistic'" even though a lot of very good, very deep, very coherent RP led them to do that specific thing.

 

Problem is: the admins don't know about all that RP - which is fine, we have a lot of players. Nobody can reasonably expect them to follow ALL THE RP going on the server. However: they don't know but they also don't care.

 

One of the first things I was taught by the person who introduced me to RP back in 2002 was: "If a player does something weird, a good game master will ask why, a bad game master will say 'you can't do it'.". And it's usually true. A good game master will ask why that player is doing something weird, and find out. Maybe that player actually has a devious plan. Maybe his reasoning actually make a lot of sense. And... maybe it's a REALLY bad idea, but then he will have to face some possible IC consequences. 

 

The problem is, the usual reaction here is "you can't do that because I decided it's not realistic, based on nothing since I know nothing of your character". It's kind of an issue, and a recurring one in the GTA community. And again, it leads to situations that make no sense, both IC or OOC, such as "sorry, you see all the RP you did, over a long time, with your female character to develop a gang? Well, it's all voided because your char is a female and I decided it's not realistic - but I'm totally not sexist, you know, I have a few female friends.". And you have months of RP that are suddenly in limbo. 

There's a difference between weird and unique and not realistic when compared to the setting. The simple fact is that people don't want to treat this as 2018 USA, most factions leaving try operating an organization which might have existed 60 years ago or exists now but outside of the US. 

 

Regarding FM not knowing everything? You're right, we don't. We do however do the appropriate research if we don't and then post it on FM boards for management to see and I can tell you for a fact that people usually watch some movie and dive into RP not thinking about how the organisation would be managed irl. 

 

All of the research is always there. If we don't know something we look it up which is why it takes FM quite a bit of time to reply to certain things. 

 

Regarding that last bit with female leaders? This happened on the server. Females can lead certain gangs and do, however, females leading certain organisations like a RUSSIAN OPG is impossible because of how Russian mobs work so obviously we're there to point it out and provide alternatives to people who want to RP illegally and lead an organisation as a female. 

 

 

Bottom line - High standards are being enforced. The faction has to fit the setting and timeline in order to exist. If we RPed Mexico we'd be approving different factions, if we RPed in the 60s we'd be approving different factions as well but this is 2018 USA and it will be treated as such. 

[Topinambour]

1 minute ago, Rhea said:

I feel like that's part of the freedom that this server lacks compared to others, people could do what they want within reason as long as there was extensive roleplay behind it and it made sense.

This goes, again, towards what I was saying about good and bad game masters. A good one will let you develop your character and your group, even if you take unusual or unexpected paths, as long as it makes sense. And again, if you make a bad decision: he won't tell you "you can't do it!!!!" unless it's really outlandish. Instead however, you may face some IC consequences and challenges. 

 

e.g.: Instead of "you can't be a female gang leader", he'll let you do it, but your female gang leader will probably face quite a bit of sexism and doubt from other gangs, for example.

[Nervous]

Just now, milk said:

I'm going to start this off again with saying that I mean none of this to sound attacking or rude.

 

Clearly from the amount of people that have brought up issues  - people's displeasure with the way things are handled is a trend, and from what I can see in this thread here, you're.. not exactly taking what they're saying on-board at all. It should be a sign to admins that this many different -groups- of roleplayers have similar issues, and whether you agree with them or not, you should at least be trying to take what they say into account rather than brush it off and disagree with them. Sitting and attempting to discredit every point brought up by this groups as "just not true" is again, part of the problem. 

 

At the end of the day, this is a video game. It's a server that people play in their free time to have fun. Yes, we need rules and guidelines on what's allowed and what's not, but the level of policing I and many others have seen towards illegal roleplay in general is.. frankly ridiculous, and I can completely understand why people are completely and utterly turned off of the idea of even attempting to create an illegal group.

Again, this is a server with high RP standards. It was created with realism in mind. We are not lowering standards because some people did not read about the server and feel we should change standards just for them. 

 

The level of policing is extremely minimal and we always provide alternatives. We try teaching the factions but they honestly don't care in most cases. We try providing research materials but they don't care either. If a faction is not willing to learn and wants to treat this server like GTA Online then I'm sorry but that's not going to happen as long as I'm here. 

 

 

[Rhea]

7 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

This goes, again, towards what I was saying about good and bad game masters. A good one will let you develop your character and your group, even if you take unusual or unexpected paths, as long as it makes sense. And again, if you make a bad decision: he won't tell you "you can't do it!!!!" unless it's really outlandish. Instead however, you may face some IC consequences and challenges. 

 

e.g.: Instead of "you can't be a female gang leader", he'll let you do it, but your female gang leader will probably face quite a bit of sexism and doubt from other gangs, for example.

And this is what I WANT to see the server turn into, a place that as long as your roleplay is on point, you're free to do as you please WITHIN REASON. But I doubt that'll ever occur. I don't want to make any claims that this is the reason the server's population isn't as high as it should be but I believe it is myself at least. I will admit I don't know much about how servers run but when compared to others servers, you look and understand that there illegal roleplay is always the most popular type of roleplay, second is legal roleplay with PD/FD/GOV/DOC and then it's civilian. However this server you'll find civilian roleplay is the most common, and these civilians commit crimes on the side, you'll probably find that at least a character that's been around for 1-2 weeks will have some sort of misdemeanor or potentially a felony. Now, is that how civilians should act? Is that realistic? I've never committed a crime and I'm certain a lot of you haven't either.

 

Edit: Only thing I can really say is that these civilians are doing what even illegal roleplayers should do, which is just live a life, which is fair right. But at this point you'll find that you can have people who have murdered others that are applying to legal factions (PD). May be more of an IC thing right, but it still happens.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Rhea

[mala]

2 minutes ago, Ethanol said:

We usually also provide an alternative when factions come to us. For example, any full on cartel that wants to operate in the US usually gets a response saying they should RP a few people from the cartel or a group of drug traffickers with ties to it which happens in the US all the time. This part is usually ignored and never brought up in any of their statements on the forums.

-

Regarding that last bit with female leaders? This happened on the server. Females can lead certain gangs and do, however, females leading certain organisations like a RUSSIAN OPG is impossible because of how Russian mobs work so obviously we're there to point it out and provide alternatives to people who want to RP illegally and lead an organisation as a female. 

-

Bottom line - High standards are being enforced. The faction has to fit the setting and timeline in order to exist. If we RPed Mexico we'd be approving different factions, if we RPed in the 60s we'd be approving different factions as well but this is 2018 USA and it will be treated as such. 

No arguments with this, actually.. Being affiliated as a satellite crew makes a lot more sense than having a cartel start fresh from ground zero.

And the note on female leaders makes more sense.. Maca's post originally seemed like they were just useless and not allowed to be illegal org leaders of any kind. Traditional Russian & Italian mobs not allowing it makes more sense.

 

[juicykiwi]

8 minutes ago, Ethanol said:

Again, this is a server with high RP standards. It was created with realism in mind. We are not lowering standards because some people did not read about the server and feel we should change standards just for them. 

 

The level of policing is extremely minimal and we always provide alternatives. We try teaching the factions but they honestly don't care in most cases. We try providing research materials but they don't care either. If a faction is not willing to learn and wants to treat this server like GTA Online then I'm sorry but that's not going to happen as long as I'm here. 

 

 

Realism is fine but the admins team policing of factions is far from minimal at times. Not every faction wants to be taught either because sometimes they have their own idea on things and don't want to be set down a specific rigid path of roleplay. Do you not see how this is limiting?

 

The fact you are stating that it's "lowering standards" because people are crying out for a little freedom and creativity does not speak well for your intentions because you are speaking down to people and is probably a reason people have been having such huge problems with the admin team recently. It's really disappointing to see. Your cartel point may be valid though, i'm unsure on that one.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Falrock

[Nervous]

Just now, Havana said:

No arguments with this, actually.. Being affiliated as a satellite crew makes a lot more sense than having a cartel start fresh from ground zero.

And the note on female leaders makes more sense.. Maca's post originally seemed like they were just useless and not allowed to be illegal org leaders of any kind. Traditional Russian & Italian mobs not allowing it makes more sense.

 

Well I'm glad you found sense in it because two groups left and couldn't accept that when we gave them the alternatives. 

[Fuggle]

They base of what they know to be realistic an what goes, but how would they know what goes on and what certain gangs cartels or organisations do? It’s not like they blog it and you can only find out from The fuck ups that get caught, 

 

and ethanol u focoused on cartels way too much there I’m talking overall, You hardly know anything that goes on irl and that’s just fact so you can’t  sit there an say this an that isn’t realistic those alliances won’t happen that type of faction wouldn’t have that business, you killing him doesn’t make sense, you seem to look past that as if you are all cartel members irl or somet, too many assumptions and the mindset off of you can’t send an example of it you can’t do it, yet again How do you know it hasn’t already happend by people that don’t fuck up, when you get a legit Skyrim faction then you can start all that but all I see is opinions and assumptions being enforced and stuff being exaggerated 

 

 

thats me now anyway if u can’t see what I mean then pointless me even trying to make sense to you.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Fuggle