Business & Gov't Bonus Overhaul

[Franelli]

I believe haven't missed any point from your original post my friend, but you do seem to ignore a lot of what I previously wrote. For the sake of the argument I'll try to explain even more in depth what I meant in my last post, so please try to bare with me.

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If you'd like to argue that point, I would encourage you to start a business with a $100 door fee and maintain three employees over the course of a month - but I suspect you will find this nigh on impossible. 

Why in the world would I do that? This would be extremely unprofitable for me (as a business owner). Those who seek to go that direction will obviously fail because this is not a proper way of handling a business, unless they offer something unique within the establishment's walls that will cover up the upkeep costs.

 

Staff expenses indeed significantly reduce the total income for a business owner, however I have already described several methods which a business owner can accomplish higher profits with, by simply being creative enough without depending on the script. I'll even give some more examples in this post - hopefully this time you will take them into account.

 

Given your current example, James runs a big establishment (a dance club for instance). Whilst in your example Jame's profit is $28,000, there are plenty of methods he can use in order to easily increase it to a more suitable amount. James can rent out certain "VIP" areas within his establishment for extra income. Such VIP zones will include a better treatment from his staff, along with a better view for the individual & his associates (not to mention privacy). Let's say he charges $3,000 for a VIP entrance per person, and let's say 15% of his customers decide to rent out the VIP zone. In your example James had 40 clients, so that would mean 6 of them will pay $3,000 each for their special access, which increases James' total profit by $18,000. That brings James to a total profit of $46,000, which is already higher than what John makes with his bar (once again, given your current example and numbers). Obviously there are more ways for James to increase his profit - as I have already stated, it all depends on James' creativity and management skills.

 

Now ask yourself a different question please: Would it really be smart to manage an extremely large establishment which requires multiple staff members to operate, on a server that simply can not supply that many customers? There's a reason your example shows such a massive difference in both business type incomes. Whilst 20 visitors to a bar might be enough, 40 for a club that charges $300 as an entrance fee might not be. The current paycheck system "rewards" an employed player with $800. Doesn't a visit to a dance club (with the entrance fee of $500 for example + $300 that will be spent on drinks) justify a one hour paycheck?

 

Those business owners who "mine" in order to pay their employees are obviously not doing it right. Getting the script to interfere and help them earn money would be the easy solution, but then again this is not what we're striving to achieve on a server that defines itself as a "heavy roleplay". If a player can not properly run a business he could always lease it to those who can, or hire somebody to manage things around for a fixed percentage of the business' income. There are ALWAYS ways to earn money in a roleplay manner for those who actually want that.

 

 

[Smilesville]

10 hours ago, Franelli said:

Would it really be smart to manage an extremely large establishment which requires multiple staff members to operate, on a server that simply can not supply that many customers?

And that's essentially what it comes down to - not only can the server not supply that many people, the density with which we'd be packed would make it impossible to have even a decent conversation or do any roleplay. My impression is that we wanted many different kinds of businesses, not only the sorts that "worked" within the current, broken framework we have now - not just put up with it and let every business be a dive bar with one employee.

 

If you're fine with that, so be it - but I'm not.

[Franelli]

7 minutes ago, Smilesville said:

And that's essentially what it comes down to - not only can the server not supply that many people, the density with which we'd be packed would make it impossible to have even a decent conversation or do any roleplay. My impression is that we wanted many different kinds of businesses, not only the sorts that "worked" within the current, broken framework we have now - not just put up with it and let every business be a dive bar with one employee.

 

If you're fine with that, so be it - but I'm not.

I wouldn't say I'm "fine with that" but you do have to stick to the facts, and the fact is a large establishment with multiple employees won't be able to survive without a decent amount of visitors / customers. It is what it is sadly, we can't argue with common sense. However this doesn't restrict anyone from roleplaying and managing any business he/she wishes to run. There are plenty of interiors of all kind of businesses which we, the players, may request and use for our roleplay purposes. It doesn't have to be something huge. If a business owner can not provide enough manpower at effective cost, he/she shouldn't be trying to run a kind of business that depends that many employees. Settle for something medium-sized, something that would fit your current abilities, and you will do just fine. If you do insist on trying to run a significantly large establishment make sure you do it right.

 

Also the amount of business ideas is pretty much endless - I myself sure will be running some unique business types in the very near future as part of a new roleplay experience I am currently working on.

[Canadian]

Honestly not entirely sure where I stand with both of your points. I see where both of you are coming from and I must say that I agree with both of you at parts.

 

As it stands right now being someone from the Customer side of things and visiting bars it does feel kind of forced and the base line is to get people through the door and that's it. Depends on the bar and there's a bit of room for character development with bars if you go to the right one but as it stands I must say I find Bar RP quite boring when we have frequent businesses that offer nothing different and just get you inside. Of course there is definitely room for business owners to make it interesting and keep people engaged and enjoying the RP inside but as it stands I don't think there's a lot of motivation for them to do that unless they're absolutely set on proving RP rather than getting script money which at least in my opinion isn't the mentality of many business owners right now. This suggestion would promote enjoyable businesses where there's actually RP involved that makes you want to stay inside. Being rewarded based on people who stay in your business will force business owners to have a unique idea or they'll have to come up with creative ideas to keep people inside which'll at the end of the day if we have creative individuals running these businesses make it more enjoyable for the customers as well.

 

Although this is a Heavy Roleplay server and having this takes away a bit of the realism factors by making business owners rely on the script to make money but that's not much different than how it already is. As it stands you are charged a door fee and if the door fee is 200 dollars the business gets 1000 dollars on top of that. That's not really realistic and depends on the script as is. This suggestion will just change how money is distributed by the script which I don't think is that big of a problem. Realistically business' money comes from customers buying drinks, food, whatever the case might be. It depends on the business obviously but your average business won't charge a door fee. Having an open door fee and running a business based on income from drinks and paying employees just isn't sustainable with this system due to the average paycheck.. drink prices.. etc like it realistically is in the circumstance of a successful business so to compensate that this suggestion would provide a "boost" like the current government door fee "boost" already provides. This suggestion just promotes people actually roleplaying in businesses rather than the "get them through the door mentality".

 

Overall, down for the overall idea of this suggestion and what it could provide.

[AVRO DANKASTER]

A script solution where a script solution isn't required.

 

Franelli brings up valid points when we're discussing theoretical business endeavours and the so-called "standard" school of business management. Businesses should strive to be profitable. But given the limitations of our community and our platform, some sort of an intervention was required for the system to accommodate a larger number of businesses instead of the hyper-specific, currently-in-demand groups. After all, extending the logic of profitability, only the businesses in demand have the right to exist on the server - and that would "optimize away" any creativity.

 

I didn't introduce in-character solutions that address this exact issue for them not to be taken into account. 

 

Any business owner can use the program government has already rolled out - subsidized jobs which permit you to hire people and pay only a fraction of their salary. The fact that the government shoulders most of the wage-associated costs means even with a very limited customer base you have the potential to generate profit.

 

That, in conjunction with the business grants and loans we've rolled out, means anyone. And I mean it when I say "anyone". Can start up almost any business. All you have to do is apply for a grant to cover the start-up costs & then apply for subsidies to employ a sufficient amount of personnel at a minimal cost to you.

 

The problem? Our approach requires a business owner to actually reach out in-character and put in some effort to get the programs going.

 

I really don't think that holding their hand by scripting around every issue they encounter is what we need. Ultimately, the goal here should be to teach the people who want to run a business... HOW to run a business.

 

For example, I disagree with the whole concept of getting paid by the script for the fact people show up to your business. It's a patchwork solution at best, aimed at businesses with a set base of operations. It does nothing to help the true player-to-player experience of service-based businesses. 

 

To summarize, my approach is to decrease the costs of running a business to encourage continuous operation, but NOT to allow people to profit from running a business that has no IC demand for it. Any profit that your business generates should be a result of you, convincing other players, to spend their money.

 

And it is precisely that ability to convince other players that separates the wheat from the chaff as far as businesspeople go. 

 

 

Therefore, I believe a script workaround is redundant.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by AVRO DANKASTER

[Smilesville]

On 10/25/2018 at 5:17 AM, AVRO DANKASTER said:

I didn't introduce in-character solutions that address this exact issue for them not to be taken into account. 

Hate to say it, but the supplemental programs just aren't sufficient - and throwing more money at certain companies doesn't solve the issue whatsoever.

[AVRO DANKASTER]

11 hours ago, Smilesville said:

Hate to say it, but the supplemental programs just aren't sufficient - and throwing more money at certain companies doesn't solve the issue whatsoever.

Would you like to discuss any specific failures of the program?

[Smilesville]

12 hours ago, AVRO DANKASTER said:

Would you like to discuss any specific failures of the program?

The program being insufficient is not the same as the program failing; it does its best to rectify the fact that there's very little incentive for businesses to conduct themselves in a realistic manner, but ultimately the bonus cash from the script itself is what needs to be changed.

[Nervous]

On 10/25/2018 at 12:17 PM, AVRO DANKASTER said:

A script solution where a script solution isn't required.

 

Franelli brings up valid points when we're discussing theoretical business endeavours and the so-called "standard" school of business management. Businesses should strive to be profitable. But given the limitations of our community and our platform, some sort of an intervention was required for the system to accommodate a larger number of businesses instead of the hyper-specific, currently-in-demand groups. After all, extending the logic of profitability, only the businesses in demand have the right to exist on the server - and that would "optimize away" any creativity.

 

I didn't introduce in-character solutions that address this exact issue for them not to be taken into account. 

 

Any business owner can use the program government has already rolled out - subsidized jobs which permit you to hire people and pay only a fraction of their salary. The fact that the government shoulders most of the wage-associated costs means even with a very limited customer base you have the potential to generate profit.

 

That, in conjunction with the business grants and loans we've rolled out, means anyone. And I mean it when I say "anyone". Can start up almost any business. All you have to do is apply for a grant to cover the start-up costs & then apply for subsidies to employ a sufficient amount of personnel at a minimal cost to you.

 

The problem? Our approach requires a business owner to actually reach out in-character and put in some effort to get the programs going.

 

I really don't think that holding their hand by scripting around every issue they encounter is what we need. Ultimately, the goal here should be to teach the people who want to run a business... HOW to run a business.

 

For example, I disagree with the whole concept of getting paid by the script for the fact people show up to your business. It's a patchwork solution at best, aimed at businesses with a set base of operations. It does nothing to help the true player-to-player experience of service-based businesses. 

 

To summarize, my approach is to decrease the costs of running a business to encourage continuous operation, but NOT to allow people to profit from running a business that has no IC demand for it. Any profit that your business generates should be a result of you, convincing other players, to spend their money.

 

And it is precisely that ability to convince other players that separates the wheat from the chaff as far as businesspeople go. 

 

 

Therefore, I believe a script workaround is redundant.

 

 

Perfectly sums it up.

 

Locked on that note.

[Franelli]

Archived.