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Player-Kill Rework


Law

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11 hours ago, Rumbunctious said:

You cannot choose to RP heavy injuries. If I run from police, unarmed, and they gun me down with M4's, I'm dead. Choosing to survive in such a scenario would fall under powergaming.

Well sure, but I don't think the solution there is to die just not really. I don't see how that eliminates the lingering feeling of someone having powergamed their way out of a situation for the outside observer. The difference is the power that you used is the one to not make your death permanent while avoiding any negative repercussion to your character.

11 hours ago, Rumbunctious said:

But that risk needs to be IC, not OOC. The current jail is an OOC punishment.

Agreed, current jail is not fun at all, and feels like an OOC punishment. I still don't really agree that a PK is an integral part of RP. I find it to be an integral part of avoiding jail in the setting being discussed, and an integral part of not having to permantently kill your character over a dumb script death. If the risk was IC, then the risk is that you actually die if you do go on risky criminal operations against an overwhelming majority of PD units, often unprepared.

 

It sort of cheapens the impact of a scene, and not everyone gets the same chance. Not really satisfying for say, the police officer with the M4 mercilessly killing innocent, unarmed teenagers to face termination and the full consequences for the death of these people by their hand when they're not actually dead.

Edited by Koko
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My opinion after reading over the topic and first few comments.

Those who are saying anyone RP'ing death should be forcibly CK'd can in my personal opinion go screw themselves. LS-RP had this similar issue with people using death as a means to avoid jail/prison or whatever else have you. If it is someone RP'ing death after getting into a car crash during a pursuit by the police or RP reaching for an imaginary gun just to get shot by the police, then yes.. Force CK them, please.. It's so annoying lmao. Otherwise, it is up to the players own decision - specifically on heavier injuries like someone shooting another, to decide how capable their character is at surviving the injuries received. If people are being dumb and RP'ing death from small injuries, like a single stab wound to the gut, then yes.. that should be a CK.

Essentially; People that don't understand how to accept a loss and blatantly RP death after having been shot three times or crash a car to avoid prison or anything else, should be reported for poor RP/ warned that it'd be a CK / CK'd if they still prefer death over taking the L and accepting the fact they got caught slipping.

It is the best way to go about the issue.

Edit; This all falls under common courtesy and role-play capability/quality. It varies from situation to situation, keep that in mind.

Edited by Shinto
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12 hours ago, Shinto said:

Essentially; People that don't understand how to accept a loss and blatantly RP death after having been shot three times or crash a car to avoid prison or anything else, should be reported for poor RP/ warned that it'd be a CK / CK'd if they still prefer death over taking the L and accepting the fact they got caught slipping.

Pretty much. The issue when you try to rework an entire rule because a few don't respect it is: you risk penalizing all those who did respect the rule. In essence: penalizing all the good RP'ers, to punish the bad ones. And sadly, most times, it doesn't really prevent the "bad" ones from keeping at it and continuing to find workarounds to avoid consequences. So ultimately... only the good RP'ers would be penalized. 

 

I've actually seen a similar situation on another game, some time ago now, regarding just the same thing. The core rule was "don't be an ass", but there were more specific rules regarding PvP, especially clan vs. clan. Namely, you had to warn an admin before launching a clan vs clan raid. Some people launched a raid without warning an admin, and used some technicalities in the rules to justify it - so the rules were made more specific. It was an issue for other players, since it made those clan vs. clan attack more tedious. But the people who circumvented the rules before? Well they found another, different way to circumvent, AGAIN, and launched another clan vs. clan attack without warning an admin, AGAIN using a small technicality. So the rules were changed AGAIN to be made more specific. And guess what? That same group of people found yet another technicality to use, to launch an attack w/o warning an admin. In the end... The rules were all reverted back, and the clan was told to go fuck itself.

 

Why? Because it's not that there was a need to make the clan vs. clan rule "stronger", or "more strict", or anything. There were people playing around the rules, who had no place on the server in the first place: they didn't respect the "don't be an ass" rule. Just like people abusing PKs for nefarious purposes or to avoid jail are pretty much breaking the common courtesy / RP quality rules. 

 

Enforcing the Common courtesy/RP quality rules more effectively would only / mostly affect the people abusing the PK rules. However, changing the PK rules entirely would affect everyone - possibly in very, very negative ways. In addition to, possibly, not solving the problem. 

Edited by Topinambour
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I genuinely believe you're all making a big fuss over nothing.

 

This is a video game and people play it for fun. Sometimes, for some, killing other characters and getting their own characters killed is part of that 'fun' that takes place quite often as a result of the specific roleplay style chosen for those characters. It doesn't mean that every death in-game should be considered a CK for the deceased character. If that was a thing, characters would be changed every couple of days without having a decent chance to have them developed properly or worse; players would simply lose interest in creating new characters and eventually leave the server.

 

Let's say Frank has a beef with John. Frank eventually decides to track down John and murder him for whatever justified reason he may have - and so he does. The next day, surprisingly enough, Frank and John encounter one other on the street, only this time they have no memory of each other and whatever issues they have had before do no longer exist. Now for the player who operates Frank's character: Why do you care? Does it bother you that much seeing a character you have previously murdered? Why is that even an issue? If you decide to go with "it's not realistic" explanation then keep in mind that this is a game and we're all here because we enjoy playing it. We try to keep it as realistic as possible while making sure players continue to enjoy their stay on the server; even if that means letting their characters have more than one lifespan.

 

As for those who constantly use death as a means to get away from legal punishment (aka suiciding in a police pursuit / shootout): it is up to the administrators of the server to deal with such behavior, as it clearly falls under the Common Courtesy rule. Such players can be easily reported and they will most likely be dealt with (see https://forum.gta.world/en/index.php?/topic/7107-roleplay-quality-report-information/ for reference). I'm pretty sure PD members wouldn't like getting CKed either after getting gunned down by a player portraying a criminal, so let's keep things balanced.

Edited by Franelli
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  • 4 weeks later...

Didn't read all the previous moaning on the topic, however, I completely agree with the suggestion. I understand, most of you are used to the LSRP system, as most of you come from there, however, it is very stupid to roleplay dead, respawn, walk the streets in 10 minutes.

 

Basically - you RP having no pulse, you RP dead - you're CKed. 

 

I just shot a dude down, I was roleplaying with him, the FD were on their way to RP with him. He accepts death (keep in mind - he stabbed a cop, had drugs on him and shit), twenty mins later he's back at Mirror Park, no consequences, clean criminal record. How am I supposed to roleplay that? I was told ''just RP him dying'', well, how the fuck can I roleplay someone dying and then see them a few mins later?

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1 hour ago, Pogis said:

Didn't read all the previous moaning on the topic, however, I completely agree with the suggestion. I understand, most of you are used to the LSRP system, as most of you come from there, however, it is very stupid to roleplay dead, respawn, walk the streets in 10 minutes.

 

Basically - you RP having no pulse, you RP dead - you're CKed. 

 

I just shot a dude down, I was roleplaying with him, the FD were on their way to RP with him. He accepts death (keep in mind - he stabbed a cop, had drugs on him and shit), twenty mins later he's back at Mirror Park, no consequences, clean criminal record. How am I supposed to roleplay that? I was told ''just RP him dying'', well, how the fuck can I roleplay someone dying and then see them a few mins later?

Exactly the issue I’m trying to raise and anyone that tells me that I’m trying to dig too deep into a system that I think is broken; most likely hasn’t been affected by it personally.

 

I’ve suggested multiple ways to slightly tweak how player-kills work whilst keeping the amnesia effect.

 

It would be appreciated if we could engage in potential issues like these instead of 22 pages about whether we should have temporary snow. 

Edited by Law
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What about a soft cool-down timer on PK'd characters?

 

Ie if you PK your character gets hospitalized for 12 hours (as an example, could be longer or shorter). It may not entirely solve the issue, but it will help offset the amount of people PKing to avoid consequence. Most of the time they're avoiding because they want to go do other things. If they know a PK will take them out of the game on that character for 12 hours they may think twice. 

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16 minutes ago, Hollywood said:

What about a soft cool-down timer on PK'd characters?

 

Ie if you PK your character gets hospitalized for 12 hours (as an example, could be longer or shorter). It may not entirely solve the issue, but it will help offset the amount of people PKing to avoid consequence. Most of the time they're avoiding because they want to go do other things. If they know a PK will take them out of the game on that character for 12 hours they may think twice. 

I got nothing to add, other than the fact that I really like this solution.

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18 hours ago, Thirteen said:

I got nothing to add, other than the fact that I really like this solution.

 

Personally speaking, I think a longer time frame is appropriate. You are getting to avoid criminal charges, jail time, etc. It'd be reasonable to take a PK'd character out of commission for 24-48 hours. The rule could be amended to only apply to 'self' PKs, situations in which you the player actively choose to PK your own character instead of another route like RPing with FD, PD, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Hollywood said:

 

Personally speaking, I think a longer time frame is appropriate. You are getting to avoid criminal charges, jail time, etc. It'd be reasonable to take a PK'd character out of commission for 24-48 hours. The rule could be amended to only apply to 'self' PKs, situations in which you the player actively choose to PK your own character instead of another route like RPing with FD, PD, etc. 

It could be a great suggestion indeed. I'll talk about it with admins.

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