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The Los Santos Government: An Introduction


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Even when the people are being monitored, I don't think they should have the authority to select, remove or adjust procedures within another legal faction. Often enough, the Legal Faction Leaders are experienced people within that faction, most of those who have several years of experience within the same kind of faction or from real life. Procedures are often based of experience from what happens in the server and adjusted to that combined with real life procedures. Most people who haven't been involved with these factions don't know what needs  to be done in order to adjust the faction to a game. Someone who's been in a Command position for over a year, for example, has far more experience than a Non-Commissioned faction member who's only been there for three months and now suddenly is the Mayor. I suspect that these things will cause a conflict, which it did on another community. They say they got previous experience in a faction so that they're able to judge things, but the Command and High Command teams are completely against certain procedures because it doesn't fit within that faction.

 

There needs to be boundaries between a game and real life. In real life, these boards that are made up of people are often who have studied the certain laws and procedures surrounding a department for years. Or even been a part of the department for numerous years with leadership roles. They know what's going on often enough and they take advise from the departments leadership.

 

Legislature has the same issue; on another community most of the people within legislature didn't have a clue what they were talking about when they pushed for laws and the representatives of the departments that might get effected by certain discussions or laws had to defend points for weeks in a row, while the legislature simply didn't want to listen because it gave a benefit to them.

 

Edit: I'm fully up for legislature, but there needs  to be a safe net where they can't just decide what's going to happen in other factions. They shouldn't have some sort of executive power over other factions. Faction Leaders are set by Legal Faction Management for a reason, I simply feel that if there's an issue with the Faction Leadership then LFM should be approached with appropriate evidence. If there are issues with procedures, people can simply suggest it to the respective faction as well.

Edited by Airwolf
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@Airwolf: Faction management is there to ensure the wrong people won't be appointed or elected, and there will be an OOC vetting process. You bring up valid points, but if IC experience is such a big factor, then wouldn't someone with a ton of IC experience be an attractive nomination choice? I know OOC experience plays a large role as well, but I think everyone expects legal faction leaders to have some level of OOC competency. If a mayor is found nominating his OOC buddies to positions, then faction management will step in if the people or the city council haven't already.

 

I would love to keep faction management out of the government as much as possible, but it isn't always a viable option. Tempers often flare up enough to the point where the lines between IC and OOC are blurred and admins need to step in. If we do let the government nominate and appoint faction leaders, I can assure you the right people will be chosen for their respective positions. Keep in mind, none of this is set in stone. There's a lot we have to consider going forward, and topics like this where we can get input from the community are invaluable. 

Edited by Thread
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I definitely know that FM is there to ensure that the wrong people won't be appointed. If it wouldn't, I'd be completely against the idea. 

IC and OOC experience is very important, especially when being put into legal faction leadership roles.


I also know that nothing is set in stone yet, if it would've been this topic would've been pointless, haha.
 

I'd like to see a more in depth idea of those powers and ideas surrounding them when the general input is given by the community so that there's more to discuss with what might be a conflict of interest between legal factions, the community, LFM and SM. I assume this will be the case regardless?

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going to answer point 1

 

government should have a lot of control and right to monitor how legal factions are operating such as the sd/pd/fd

 

this is mostly because ia or management certainly don't take issues seriously so the only way you'll prevent corruption or abuse of power is through a neutral third party which should be in the government's hands

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I'm one of the newest users of this community, and i don't have neither a plain idea about the people around here and how it's interested in those arguments. However, i had the privilege (and the burden) to organize a lot of governments in a lot of foreign SA:MP communities, resulting in a not totally negligible experience in this area, probably just because i had the opportunity to throw people in random systems until something started to work. By the way, I would ask you to forgive my poor use of english, that may result annoying, due to lots of italian figure of speech that i keep translating literally.

 

 

 

My personal opinion about the inexperience problem mentioned by Airwolf right above, is that it reflects significant organization flaws, and it's sparked by an insufficent schooling by the clerk roles to the members going to play elected positions for limited period of time. Mantaining experienced people in roles that allow them to instruct those who are going to play as councilmen, and restricting the elected officers liberty trough a strict protocol, there shouldn't be any issues with mantaining an elected legislative branch.

 

In regard of the limitation that should be issued to the legislative branch as a safety shield for other factions, it's an appropriate and required measure, that in my opinion should be managed complitely ICly trough the normal limitations that an IRL city council have towards an IRL county board of supervisor, an IRL state legislature, an IRL federal organization, that as a matter of fact don't leave such a big authonomy unless subsidiary matters to the city administration, and trough the possibility for the administrative branch of the judicial system to overrule the city provisions, that grant to any other faction, businness, agency, the right to appeal against law or executive orders.

 

in regard of the executive branch that, as above has been stated, technically have the option to rule public agency such the police department, and appoint a nominee, I believe that it's an opportunity that must be shared with the board of commissioner of any public dept, granting to each party the right to veto the other party trust. If the chief of the agency is not anymore trusted by the major office or by his board of commissioners, that chief shall be demoted under the board of commissioners and a new chief shall be appointed with the trust of the commission and of the major. The expiry of the trust could be ruled in various way trough a specific procedure by the state legislation, so that can't be changed by the city legislature itself. Over everything, the Faction management have, of course, the last word about the decision, just like as a nazi major (over the top example) pretend to raise the power.

 

I think that by now, i've express my opinion about all the point you raised above, so i'm going to round off this apology with some other points, as long as noone talked about. Running a state legislature, side to an executive office and a city clerk office, a court system, an attorney office and a public defender office requires a lot of people to be trained, and a lot of people to be elected for 1 month, 2 month or 3 month term of offices. Training those people, and finding those people, standing by my past experiences, it's an hard and ambitious project, if we're going this way, we have to ensure ourselves that we have the possibility to.

 

Forgive me again for my poor english, and thank you for your attention.

Edited by Dat.Stuka
Grammar check
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@Dat.Stuka: You raise some good points. In real life, there's a very long and drawn out process to remove a Chief of Police or Fire Department Chief. You're right in saying there's often a board of commissioners, like the LAPD has, that create and enact department-wide policy. Ideally? I would love to let bureaucracy take over and have boards of commissioners for both the LSPD and LSFD, but we might not have the manpower for it when we first start. We have to make due with what we have, and provide as practical of a process without sacrificing too much realism and depth.

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To be fair, the Department of Justice (which should only consist of the Attorney General and the Solicitor General to start off with) should regulate and oversee the Police and Sheriff's Department until we have enough interest to expand and establish an individual Board of Commissioners. 

Edited by Justitiae
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the government must be in charge of the other governmental organizations. otherwise it'll end up being the government of LSRP; viewed as a joke faction for people who got rejected from every other & not taken serious by several people if not every single person out there. it should oversee all the other governmental bodies, handle licensing, perhaps a some blue collars to show their presence around the city, but that's about it. anything else will be beyond boring

 

I assure you that I'm writing this from first hand experience. and tell you all what: the mayor is doing  a bad job? then he is doing a bad job in character, no need to make such a big deal about it. 

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6 hours ago, Bloodseeker said:

the government must be in charge of the other governmental organizations. otherwise it'll end up being the government of LSRP; viewed as a joke faction for people who got rejected from every other & not taken serious by several people if not every single person out there. it should oversee all the other governmental bodies, handle licensing, perhaps a some blue collars to show their presence around the city, but that's about it. anything else will be beyond boring

 

I assure you that I'm writing this from first hand experience. and tell you all what: the mayor is doing  a bad job? then he is doing a bad job in character, no need to make such a big deal about it. 

Bloodseeker speaks the truth.

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