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Roleplay Enhancement Lectures.


Cici

Should Roleplay Enhancement Lectures be an extra alternative for administrative punishment?  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Roleplay Enhancement Lectures be an extra alternative for administrative punishment?

    • Yes.
      29
    • No.
      14

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Hi.  So I'll TRY to keep this short but it won't work.  Let me just cut right down to it.  I've been a faction leader for years on a number of different servers, even was an admin on a SAMP server once.  I've been official in say 2 communities and my factions have wound up being the most productive in 3.  GTAW's about to be the 4th.  Yes I'm bragging, cringe yourself into Oblivion. lol JK, but what I AM trying to say is, for years I've been teaching people how to roleplay and portray characters, usually in a mob setting but other settings too like Biker RP (which I was out of my element in) or gang RP (which I was also out of my element in.)  

Now I am by no means the all-knowing roleplayer although I do have people who look up to me, and not 1 person on this server is.  But if I had a triple beam that measured the quality of roleplay on this server, some roleplayers are not even in the same stratosphere as other roleplayers, or even NEW roleplayers.  Not a dig, just a well worded, un-aimed fact.  On a heavy roleplay server we're all expected to be on the same page from the minute you show up till the minute you quit or get banned forever.  Expecting people to know as much or be as good as you off the bat is elitism in it's prime form.  But we STILL have to find a way to communicate or set the example, which admittedly, punishing them does.

But, there should be an alternative to some things, depending on the severity of the rulebreaking(s).  So let me introduce an alternative to people who have came clean on their general mistakes and admitted they are wrong on most cases.  What a Roleplay Enhancement Lecture is, is a 10-15 minute OOC lecture, via voice AND chat, to help a roleplayer understand any mistakes he or she made, understand how not to make them again, and how to set that standard for others in the community.  Instead of banning people, ajailing people, or even publicly shaming them with a warning they may or may not have deserved, flag them for an REL (Roleplay Enhancement Lecture.) and let a respected roleplayer, or a staff member even actually put forth the time to explain and enhance the roleplayer's knowledge.

Instead of dirtying up their record and waiting for some jerk to fill up his 10 forum warnings, try to talk to the person.  Maybe they just don't know what to expect on this server yet.  Maybe they just don't know how to roleplay.  I've already encountered two people on this server who I could've reported for breaking rules.  But when I realized they were new, I showed them a little compassion and while I could've gotten into more OOC drama or more people against me as a roleplayer, I made a few new buddies.  Your general attitude (when you aren't trolling or eating trolls like me) really goes a long way in how much effort people want to put in and learn here.  

We should ditch the condescending SAMP mentality where people act like they know what everyone outside of their own circles want, and just stick to the basics.  Write guides and issue REL's to people who show that they want to be here and learn our way.  They have to be willing to learn and we have to be willing to teach.  Then keep the heavy punishments for the people who clearly have no will or want to roleplay here or participate in the encouragement of the community in it's infancy.

This is something no other server has done.  Simply speaking their opinion on the very last post and closing it before giving people a chance to respond or say sorry the way admins do on this server leaves so much room for error and judgement.  Use REL's as alternative punishments if you have to, and people who this server trusts to be part of that squad, someone who can level with players as an equal, can be the ones who execute them.  If my job consisted of teaching people how to roleplay the way THIS SERVER wants, I'd be happy to be remembered in a community that cares a little extra.

If you don't care about your players the same amount you care about your roleplay, you're wasting your time.

Edited by Cici
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@Cici What do you expect from this, that warnings and penalties isn't already doing? 

 

I mean, I understand where you're going and all. But I am having a hard time seeing how this could fix anything? 

I agree that people that break the rules is getting WAY to many chances and I personally think that the punishments should be harder. 

 

In my perspective, this meeting from staff to player is the exact same thing as a warning? - I would expect people who gets punished the first time, to ask themselves why they got punished and evolve from that? If they don't, they should just be banned after X numbers of rulebreaks.

 

And yes. Some people might not know what they do wrong and a conversation would be fitting in that matter. - But if people simply don't understand the rules, I would personally assume that they're either not trying to follow them. Or that they are too young to play here, anyways.

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29 minutes ago, Jauss said:

@Cici What do you expect from this, that warnings and penalties isn't already doing? 

Warning and penalties are doing absolutely nothing.  I can round up proof of that if you'd like.  (In private, to you.)  10 forum warnings to get someone banned for a few weeks?  Preposterous.  Counterproductive.  Borderline foolish.  What I expect is, players and new players to level with each other and actually enhance the roleplay.  There needs to be a higher level of learning here.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Jauss said:

I mean, I understand where you're going and all. But I am having a hard time seeing how this could fix anything? 

I agree that people that break the rules is getting WAY to many chances and I personally think that the punishments should be harder.

This could get people to get out of "troll mode" or "fuck it mode" when their roleplay is not up to par and they know it, so they go on these little troll sprees to make up for the fact that they have lackluster RP and this way they can at least say they never tried.  They need someone to make them try.  And help them try.  As far as the rulebreakers, that's why I say save what we got now for them.  But what do you say to a new player who really doesn't know what he's doing, who'se been thrown to the wolves who know how to RP and then gets reported for not doing it their way?  It's elitism.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Jauss said:

In my perspective, this meeting from staff to player is the exact same thing as a warning? - I would expect people who gets punished the first time, to ask themselves why they got punished and evolve from that? If they don't, they should just be banned after X numbers of rulebreaks.

I mean, I get your perspective but who says it has to be only staff?  I set quite a standard for this server myself, I wouldn't suffice?  Or hell, what about people like Bonestorm, or even Dego Mike.  These guys have experience in a number of different RP categories but in the end it all comes down to one, the basics.  See, the whole "expecting" people to get punished thing is where me and you are different.  I expect nothing, I am not staff and I do not have the authority or the right to "expect" anything.  But I can help people understand, you see?

I agree people should be banned after 3 warnings, not 10, but what're you gonna do, not my rules, not my server. :)  If I expected it, I'd be just disappointing myself, which I have yet to do since I started here.  

 

29 minutes ago, Jauss said:

And yes. Some people might not know what they do wrong and a conversation would be fitting in that matter. - But if people simply don't understand the rules, I would personally assume that they're either not trying to follow them. Or that they are too young to play here, anyways.

So this alternative is for those people you speak of.  You can assume what you'd like but what you should ACKNOWLEDGE is that they screwed up and not everyone screws up maliciously.  But the way some people break the rules and blatantly disregard warnings towards them without provocation, that's why we have ajails and bans.  REL's are just a simple alternative for people who are sorry and here to learn.

Can't hurt.  Can't be abused.  Can't turn out bad.  Only reason why nobody would at least want to try this is our of sheer laziness or fear of it not working, which is an asinine fear in itself because you'll never know if you don't try it.

Edited by Cici
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Guest DagoMike415

I don't see what the harm in this is, if someone wants to volunteer their time to help then I am all for it. I'll even volunteer to help myself. Think a significant amount the of the time people troll because they don't know what to do. They wanna role play a certain thing and instead of asking for help or advice they default to trolling or breaking rules as a way to avoid just asking for help because they don't wanna seem like a "Noob". There is absolutely no risk involved in this idea. If anything ,its something most servers or communities do not provide. I mean as cliche as it sounds, if we help just one person then it's worth it. IMO

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I believe what he's trying to say is instead of punishing people who don't know what they are doing, help them. I actually seen a case of this yesterday where there was a guy not trolling or being a dick, but just generally breaking rules that a player on a heavy roleplay server should know. The staff team handled this person with utmost respect and understanding. However, it is safe to say that not all players have the same luck as this guy. But this person who the staff team helped, is more than likely going to stay around now, compared to if he was just straight up banned for "Poor RP, does not understand the basics, needs to read over the rules" who then needs to embarrassingly appeal this type of ban. How many of you here think that people come back after this type of ban? I reckon it's very few, if any at all.

 

This is what heavy roleplay communities on SA:MP were known for. People on big communities having an elitist attitude towards roleplay. Generally having an "I'm better than you" attitude when it comes to roleplay. It created a toxic stigma that people on light roleplay communities had of heavy roleplayers. Attitudes like, "This guy is taking the game way too serious, going through all that extra effort for a game lmao". When it's really not that hard, when you get taught how to take a roleplay game serious, it's actually fun. Combine that with understand the basic rules and especially learning not to mix IC with OOC, it's actually such a blast.

 

There's a difference between a guy who has the ability and understanding to roleplay correctly but chooses to do otherwise. Whether it in a malicious way or just to troll for the sake of pissing off a group of players that you consider "elitists", hell, maybe it's for a completely different reason either, who knows? Just like the people who you were talking about @Jauss. But compare that to a person new to the roleplay scene, perhaps young like I was when I first started playing SA:MP(I was 11!), or maybe they are simply trying out a new genre of game. I'm sure hundreds of people trying out this type of game have been turned away by the thoughts of it, when really all it takes is a little bit of effort and you'll have endless fun.

 

This is a topic that as cringe as it sounds, hits me hard at home, as I started roleplaying as an unconfident 11-year-old on a light roleplay server. I was lucky enough to join perhaps maybe the only faction on the server at that time that would've spent time teaching me how to roleplay, how to not break rules constantly and generally how to not be a c*nt, because frankly, I was a little c*nt back then. I was actually extremely lucky because the same faction kicked me out for metagaming a first name, cause it was above their head! But I snook back in the next day and they decided to keep me around. Ask Donnie from DOMC/Luppino(HE KICKED ME OUT :/) or @DagoMike415 , this is a true story.

 

There is absolutely no disadvantages to this type of thing, not only does it increase the population, but it also creates a loyal player, especially to the group who take their time to teach this player. Not just a loyal player, a loyal friend. I always think I would not have been so loyal to one faction if they did not OOCly take time out of their day to explain my retarded ass the basics of roleplaying. It creates a fun atmosphere inside a faction, which when combined with the understanding of roleplay, is only gonna give you one thing. A strong, quality faction.

 

It may be time-consuming, but it does a lot more good than harm. It's fun to teach people. It makes the people teaching them even better roleplayers and creates a fun atmosphere between people teaching and learning. Not just that, but it's genuinely nice to see people grow from a complete "noob" to an all-round quality roleplayer.

 

I vote YES, we need to get away from the excuse of "this is a heavy roleplay server".

Edited by Jordan
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4 hours ago, Cici said:

So this alternative is for those people you speak of.  You can assume what you'd like but what you should ACKNOWLEDGE is that they screwed up and not everyone screws up maliciously.  But the way some people break the rules and blatantly disregard warnings towards them without provocation, that's why we have ajails and bans.  REL's are just a simple alternative for people who are sorry and here to learn.

Can't hurt.  Can't be abused.  Can't turn out bad.  Only reason why nobody would at least want to try this is our of sheer laziness or fear of it not working, which is an asinine fear in itself because you'll never know if you don't try it.

I understand where you're going with this. But players like you and I, embrace new players that wants to learn  by helping them to. I have had multiple players under my wings since I started roleplaying, many many years ago. 

 

I personally just see it as common courtesy to help new players to evolve their roleplay, if I feel like they want to. From my experience, I can tell whether a person is here to learn or here to troll within minutes. I think the people who are actually here to learn will ask about. Not just remain silent and get the maximum numbers of warning before getting banned. 

 

I am just trying to question whether you want everyone to participate in this program? Both people there are here to learn and evolve throughout their stay. Or you want to use this as a way to confront trolls and rulebreakers as well. Because I highly doubt that a conversation with them will help and will most likely just be time wasting. 

Edited by Jauss
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Just now, Jauss said:

I understand where you're going with this. But players like you and I, embrace new players that wants to learn  by helping them to. I have had multiple players under my wings since I started roleplaying, many many years ago. 

 

I personally just see it as common courtesy to help new players to evolve their roleplay, if I feel like they want to. From my experience, I can tell whether a person is here to learn or here to troll within minutes. I think the people who are actually here to learn will ask about. Not just remain silened and get the maximum numbers of warning before getting banned. 

 

I am just trying to question whether you want everyone to participate in this program? Both people there are here to learn and evolve throughout their stay. Or you want to use this as a way to confront trolls and rulebreakers as well. Because I highly doubt that a conversation with them will help and will most likely just be time wasting. 

Hell yeah myguy, so you get it.  You have the right idea now, I think why wouldn't we use that for positivity.  Everytime people give each other criticism is mid argument or something here, and it actually does more damage.  Makes people not want to learn or ascend to a higher level of creativity.  I don't think everyone has to part take, what this would be is a choice for staff, not really the players.  The players behavior can warrant REL's instead of bans and ajails.  It'll help us promote the behavior and cordiality this server has made clear that they want.  Rulebeakers and trolls do not deserve the leniency this suggestion has to offer.  And you're 100% right, it won't help everyone, like the trolls and the rulebreakers, that's why we have bans and ajails.  But if we can help people positively in the process I think this would be a wonderful alternative.  :)

I appreciate your input and your questions.

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Conclusion.

 

After questions getting answered, I am down with this idea. - If we had a system for players to both reach out, or being "forced" to get a lecture on heavy roleplay. I think it would greatly benefit the server in every way. 

 

Voted Yes.

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