To IFM- An Update on Faction Warfare. 2020 Update

[MickeyO]

Let me start this topic by giving it a short preface. Often I see in this server a heightened sense of escalation between factions, factions shooting at one another for what would seem as petty reasons, and a general disregard for realism during these wars. I've noticed in the community it's about who can blockwipe who etc. Bare in mind that the last time the Faction Conflict rules were updated were December 2017.

 

Now to bring up my points.

 

https://prnt.sc/v1wf48 In the faction rules it states that factions involving themselves in PK wars need to inform IFM, I may be wrong but I really don't think this rule is enforced and I think it needs to.

 

Pk wars between factions should have some sort of stakes. Quite frankly I feel like people are so keen to get into wars with one another because they know if they lose they'll just lose some status points and some  weapons. I believe that admins need to get both faction leadership to sit down with one another and come with some terms that being cash, territory, a shipment of drugs or guns, etc. Something that will add an actual consequence to war.

 

Now for a harsh opinion. I believe that factions that are always getting into PK wars with one another, I'm talking multiple times and it keeps on happening that they should be forced to be involved with one another in a CK war. This is to force people to ask themselves how hard and far they want to escalate conflict with factions.

 

Factions need to take a realistic approach to modern day urban warfare tit for tat killings need to be more common, when one person gets smoked I don't think anyone is trying to kill everyone in a gang or a organized crime organization irl. I see people going to war over members who are some low level guys, you should be trying to blow down one or two for your getback. (In the context of GTA W I understand it can be strained and almost glorified.) but I believe people's current mindset is "How many can I block wipe?" when it should be about taking out key members and key positions. I don't think there is a rule that you can place to enforce such a thing but I think serious factions should keep it in mind when getting into conflict, realistically you're not going to kill every member of a faction (for the most part, they're some exceptions) I believe a factions main focus would be to take out key figures that are identified ICly. 

 

Street gang factions and organized crime factions should not go to war...it's cringe. (I don't see it often but I've seen it)

 

Ban /mask in PK wars, I think you should be allowed to use a mask ICly but the command /mask should be outlawed because people use their main characters that have been PK'd during the war to scout hoods, using PK'd chars to commit faction attacks etc.

 

Faction Allies (Exceptions can be made for Umbrella Orgs like Eurasians OC, Mexican Mafia, White Car, Paisa Car, and whoever) need to submit a faction ally request prior to involving themselves in a war providing IFM sufficient enough reason on why they want to sacrifice their own people for a war that's there not there's. 

 

Players involving themselves in PK wars need to be active throughout whether that be a couple hours every couple of days or not.

 

A faction war is won or lost when 80 percent of the opposite faction dies, that can be monitored through a list submitted to IFM prior to a faction PK war showing all the names of people involving themselves in the conflict.

 

 

Whether you agree with one point or none I would like to hear your opinions on it, please keep it cool. Not trying to get this shit locked.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by MickeyO

[Mob Ties]

Yeah, completely agree with this, It will make war's more manageable and stop it from turning into an absolute DM fest ruining any immersion or RP.

 

At the moment Tongan Crips vs Hoovers is a really really pointless war, but it's on going, 11 people have been banned from the Hoovers side for rulebreaks, and I still believe that if this approach was taken there wouldn't of been such a problem in the first place.

 

Not knocking FM in any way shape or form here but I definitely believe they need a more active role amongst war's and such deciding terms between the two opposition and setting rules etc, so your comments on stuff such as Allie's having to fill something out to request involvement and such would be a great way of implementing that.

 

Anyway just my two cents but I'm glad somebody addressed the elephant in the room.

[Craazy]

2 minutes ago, Mob Ties said:

Yeah, completely agree with this, It will make war's more manageable and stop it from turning into an absolute DM fest ruining any immersion or RP.

 

At the moment Tongan Crips vs Hoovers is a really really pointless war, but it's on going, 11 people have been banned from the Hoovers side for rulebreaks, and I still believe that if this approach was taken there wouldn't of been such a problem in the first place.

 

Actually sir, this is false.

 

The war also isn't pointless, not sure if your leadership has told you but we're fighting for each others turf.
Furthermore, stop spreading false rumors that 11 people have been banned. Only 5 have been banned.

 

Our war wouldn't have been an absolute DM fest if there had been some common sense involved, but I won't really get into that for the sake of keeping @MickeyO's thread clean.

[Copelands]

Couldn't agree more. Also, when we getting faction tags on our profiles ?

Edited October 18, 2020 by Copelands

[DoomedAmerica]

@MickeyObut then how are we gonna create shootout montages oh no the content ?

+1

[.George]

26 minutes ago, MickeyO said:

Pk wars between factions should have some sort of stakes. Quite frankly I feel like people are so keen to get into wars with one another because they know if they lose they'll just lose some status points and some  weapons. I believe that admins need to get both faction leadership to sit down with one another and come with some terms that being cash, territory, a shipment of drugs or guns, etc. Something that will add an actual consequence to war.

PK wars are usually either due to blown out conflict or over the turf. I participated in two PK ‚‚wars'' which resulted in loosing side loosing contested turf and being ordered to stay away from it.

27 minutes ago, MickeyO said:

Now for a harsh opinion. I believe that factions that are always getting into PK wars with one another, I'm talking multiple times and it keeps on happening that they should be forced to be involved with one another in a CK war. This is to force people to ask themselves how hard and far they want to escalate conflict with factions.

This has happened before.

28 minutes ago, MickeyO said:

Street gang factions and organized crime factions should not go to war...it's cringe. (I don't see it often but I've seen it)

This makes no sense, if one is pushing other's buttons to a reason that is valid, I don't see why this should be a thing.

29 minutes ago, MickeyO said:

Players involving themselves in PK wars need to be active throughout whether that be a couple hours every couple of days or not.

You can't force people to be online for x amount of time just so they participate in war, sometimes people just can't be online for reasons.

30 minutes ago, MickeyO said:

A faction war is won or lost when 80 percent of the opposite faction dies, that can be monitored through a list submitted to IFM prior to a faction PK war showing all the names of people involving themselves in the conflict.

This is also a thing. I believe IFM has stopped PK wars before even after only leadership got wiped.

 

To sum it up, I agree that ALL allies should submit a reason why they're joining the war since it makes no sense to throw bodies for no reason other than fun as things get stale a little. Another thing is the masks, I don't think it's feasible to do that but yes, PKed people should be punished for doing things like scoutings.

 

However, the main point you raised that I'd agree with is tit for tat killings. We often see full scale war that would realistically (no offense to them) trigger PD and alarm them to criminal groups, sadly this doesn't happen in game for variety of IC and OOC reasons. Also full scale wars are often costly things that could do you long term damage that sadly isn't present in game at the moment.

[MickeyO]

7 minutes ago, DjoleK said:

PK wars are usually either due to blown out conflict or over the turf. I participated in two PK ‚‚wars'' which resulted in loosing side loosing contested turf and being ordered to stay away from it.

This has happened before.

This makes no sense, if one is pushing other's buttons to a reason that is valid, I don't see why this should be a thing.

You can't force people to be online for x amount of time just so they participate in war, sometimes people just can't be online for reasons.

This is also a thing. I believe IFM has stopped PK wars before even after only leadership got wiped.

 

To sum it up, I agree that ALL allies should submit a reason why they're joining the war since it makes no sense to throw bodies for no reason other than fun as things get stale a little. Another thing is the masks, I don't think it's feasible to do that but yes, PKed people should be punished for doing things like scoutings.

 

However, the main point you raised that I'd agree with is tit for tat killings. We often see full scale war that would realistically (no offense to them) trigger PD and alarm them to criminal groups, sadly this doesn't happen in game for variety of IC and OOC reasons. Also full scale wars are often costly things that could do you long term damage that sadly isn't present in game at the moment.

Just because it's happened before doesn't mean either side has to agree on it, it's not in the rules. This thread was made for the purpose of rule additions and or adjustments.  And it makes no sense why a crip gang would be going to war with Italian OC or Russian OC, in what world? My purpose for saying people need to be active during a war is because you /may/ have people never logging in said character they're using for a war which creates an unfair advantage. And for your last point, I'm glad to see IFM does so already.

 

 

EDIT:https://prnt.sc/v1xecb I noticed IFM already has a rule in place for it regarding how long war participants need to be alone.

Edited October 18, 2020 by MickeyO

[Thimble]

Very good, Feodor. 

 

[arkan]

i'm pretty sure IFM already takes steps to regulate unrealistic escalations of conflicts between factions. Not only has the team stepped in multiple times in order to curve these unrealistic wars, but now with the addition of the FM council experienced members within the community are able to advise standing factions on their conflicts and help steer them the right way (see Rancho-Hillside v. IFGB)

[Shanks]

1 hour ago, MickeyO said:

https://prnt.sc/v1wf48 In the faction rules it states that factions involving themselves in PK wars need to inform IFM, I may be wrong but I really don't think this rule is enforced and I think it needs to.

Rules of engagement mainly count for CK wars.

1 hour ago, MickeyO said:

Pk wars between factions should have some sort of stakes. Quite frankly I feel like people are so keen to get into wars with one another because they know if they lose they'll just lose some status points and some  weapons. I believe that admins need to get both faction leadership to sit down with one another and come with some terms that being cash, territory, a shipment of drugs or guns, etc. Something that will add an actual consequence to war.

 

Now for a harsh opinion. I believe that factions that are always getting into PK wars with one another, I'm talking multiple times and it keeps on happening that they should be forced to be involved with one another in a CK war. This is to force people to ask themselves how hard and far they want to escalate conflict with factions.

PK wars should not necessarily have that large of an impact other than making the other faction RP weaker as well as perhaps being pushed out of an area. We sit down and speak between leaders when needed already. There have been multiple joint conversations to establish the terms and outcomes of PK wars through the times. We still do it when needed. A CK war is where people truly suffer losses, and those are closely monitored by us in IFM, as well as rarely brought to the table as a means to an end. A PK war is a way for factions to fight amongst themselves once escalation of the conflict reaches the level where they feel it's required. I don't see why need to lose cash on top, shipments, and whatnot. I don't see why that would be a thing or what the logic behind that would even be.

1 hour ago, MickeyO said:

Factions need to take a realistic approach to modern day urban warfare tit for tat killings need to be more common, when one person gets smoked I don't think anyone is trying to kill everyone in a gang or a organized crime organization irl. I see people going to war over members who are some low level guys, you should be trying to blow down one or two for your getback. (In the context of GTA W I understand it can be strained and almost glorified.) but I believe people's current mindset is "How many can I block wipe?" when it should be about taking out key members and key positions. I don't think there is a rule that you can place to enforce such a thing but I think serious factions should keep it in mind when getting into conflict, realistically you're not going to kill every member of a faction (for the most part, they're some exceptions) I believe a factions main focus would be to take out key figures that are identified ICly. 

This is more so for the specific factions and their leadership, but we are of course encouraging reports filed if a 'war' is started over some low-level associate being stupid. Or the war itself started based on ridiculous assumptions.

1 hour ago, MickeyO said:

Street gang factions and organized crime factions should not go to war...it's cringe. (I don't see it often but I've seen it)

 

Ban /mask in PK wars, I think you should be allowed to use a mask ICly but the command /mask should be outlawed because people use their main characters that have been PK'd during the war to scout hoods, using PK'd chars to commit faction attacks etc.

I don't know which factions you're talking about that you've seen do that type of war.

 

I don't see why we would ban /mask at all. People have been reported for the use of scouting and for the use of alternate characters etc. This has ended both in factions punished as well as players punished. Just note down names, record, contact admins for it. It is important to report on this if something like this is seen happening. And IFM obviously doesn't tolerate any of it, hence we try our best to tackle it. But banning /mask isn't the way to go. There's no way to fix this other than reporting people that involve themselves in this sort of way.

1 hour ago, MickeyO said:

Faction Allies (Exceptions can be made for Umbrella Orgs like Eurasians OC, Mexican Mafia, White Car, Paisa Car, and whoever) need to submit a faction ally request prior to involving themselves in a war providing IFM sufficient enough reason on why they want to sacrifice their own people for a war that's there not there's. 

They already have to do this for CK wars. Which is what matters. If factions with little to no reason to get involved in a PK war do so - feel free to contact us and we will speak to leaders about reasoning. There's no need to further create paperwork and 'ally requests' really. It's always going to be a situation based as to what involvement is deemed realistic.

1 hour ago, MickeyO said:

Players involving themselves in PK wars need to be active throughout whether that be a couple hours every couple of days or not.

 

A faction war is won or lost when 80 percent of the opposite faction dies, that can be monitored through a list submitted to IFM prior to a faction PK war showing all the names of people involving themselves in the conflict.

This is already expected. People are not allowed to bring in inactive characters or so. We can monitor players' activity through the UCP if it is believed that someone's actively 'dodging' activity. But there's no way to force people in-game. We do however enforce 1 character per war, PK or CK.

No need for us as IFM to call a war won or not. The war is won when there's no way to retaliate or of the like. People that are PKed ina  PK war are not allowed to be involved anymore or even retaliate. So the wars end themselves naturally. As there's no way for us as IFM to fully track absolutely every gang member dying for instance - keep track yourselves of who died and when. We can check logs and confirm this. I have personally
punished people multiple times for reinvolvement in wars. It is not allowed.

 

Overall? IFM steps in where needed and we do try to somewhat monitor PK wars as well, and we make sure people killed in them stay out of them. It's a natural flow and not all wars can be CK wars. But I like to think we as IFM are very approachable when it comes to both questions and reports that come in, in regards to any wars or conflicts overall. As mentioned, we have an FM council that helps both report and direct a realistic path and outcome if needed as well. We have eyes around and we got the tools to help out when people feel wronged. And I can only credit faction leaders and memebrs that do the same, and offer their intel our way when something is noted as against the rules or done wrongfully.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Shanks