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Problem with PD alts


DirtNasty

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5 minutes ago, Rumbunctious said:

Any illegal faction that brings people back to their rank / fast tracks them through after they've CKed is equally as bad as the PD, no one is saying otherwise. PD obviously isn't the ONLY offender here, they're just the most glaring when their members constantly post about how they're cops, not their characters.

Yeah! Robocops exist. I have seen them with my own eyes, I have RPed with them, but guess what? So do robomobsters. Sell/buy drugs repeat, sell/buy guns repeat, pull the same unrealistic rackets repeat, sell/buy women repeat. Zero character development, just blank dispensers of illegal activity. I'm GLAD you agree with me.

Edited by rootless cosmopolitan
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Yo. I saw some quick comments wanting examples and basis so; I have been within Judiciary aka the courts for 12 months, Sheriff's for 8 months and then Police for 18 months before Sheriff's. I have had 5 characters between Sheriff's and Police and 1 character within Judiciary throughout this time.

 

I have never been PK'd or put into death-mode during that time on any of those characters during law enforcement role-play, I have had alternative characters within illegal factions and/or positions. This has only helped me understand better the state of illegal role-play and how to better contribute to the experience of this illegal role-players while on my law enforcement character.

 

Personally, my opinion on the whole shebang is not a popular one. I believe that if you are PK'd on-duty, and it isn't a situation in breach of the rules, you should CK. Why? You have a radio in which you can call the entire faction over, some have a rifle accessible to them at a moments notice, you have armor on your character's body. If you died, it's tough shit and you should take the L and learn from it. Retreat, role-play fear, get colleagues over. Is your character seriously going to push against a gang when they are out-numbered? Do they care more about a license suspension than their own life? "This isn't worth it, lets get the fuck out." is something that should be said more.

 

Now when it comes to the demotion part, I honestly do not think demotions are the way forwards. Perhaps resetting their 'progression', they start from the time requirements for the next rank again, something along those lines. There has to be a median between fair and fun. I have written manuals in both Sheriff's and Police which are still used, I'd probably jump out my window after spending hours on that only to be wiped out by a metal mall-rat bat and demoted.

 

tl;dr imo there is an issue, there needs to be more consequences for law-enforcement and they should be held to a much higher standard than they are currently. However, these consequences should be set in place for everyone, illegal and legal. OOC bias will always exist, that needs to be mediated as well. I've got no idea on how though.

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Just now, rootless cosmopolitan said:

Yeah! Robocops exist. I have seen them with my own eyes, I have RPed with them, but guess what? So do robomobsters. Sell/buy drugs repeat, sell/buy guns repeat, pull the same unrealistic rackets repeat, sell/buy women repeat. Zero character development, just blank dispensers of illegal activities. Billy Badasses, no reason behind their path to career criminality. I'm GLAD you agree with me.

They do exist, not as much as robocops. We could go on and on about it but the fact still remains, its easier to roleplay a cop, there's more to do with lesser limitations if you have an issue with how a mobster operates, talk to the leader of the faction as we are instructed to do with LEO factions.

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5 minutes ago, Rumbunctious said:

Ah, I see your stance. Because there are bad illegal RPers, it's nbd that PD allows anyone to keep their rank as if they were OOCly in the faction. Thanks for clarifying.

I mean if we're going to start making shit up, we might as well talk about something else.  I won't repeat myself for the third time because if you can't read or just want to argue in bad faith, that's really your problem. My point was very clear.

 
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27 minutes ago, jessica said:

Yo. I saw some quick comments wanting examples and basis so; I have been within Judiciary aka the courts for 12 months, Sheriff's for 8 months and then Police for 18 months before Sheriff's. I have had 5 characters between Sheriff's and Police and 1 character within Judiciary throughout this time.

 

I have never been PK'd or put into death-mode during that time on any of those characters during law enforcement role-play, I have had alternative characters within illegal factions and/or positions. This has only helped me understand better the state of illegal role-play and how to better contribute to the experience of this illegal role-players while on my law enforcement character.

 

Personally, my opinion on the whole shebang is not a popular one. I believe that if you are PK'd on-duty, and it isn't a situation in breach of the rules, you should CK. Why? You have a radio in which you can call the entire faction over, some have a rifle accessible to them at a moments notice, you have armor on your character's body. If you died, it's tough shit and you should take the L and learn from it. Retreat, role-play fear, get colleagues over. Is your character seriously going to push against a gang when they are out-numbered? Do they care more about a license suspension than their own life? "This isn't worth it, lets get the fuck out." is something that should be said more.

 

Now when it comes to the demotion part, I honestly do not think demotions are the way forwards. Perhaps resetting their 'progression', they start from the time requirements for the next rank again, something along those lines. There has to be a median between fair and fun. I have written manuals in both Sheriff's and Police which are still used, I'd probably jump out my window after spending hours on that only to be wiped out by a metal mall-rat bat and demoted.

 

tl;dr imo there is an issue, there needs to be more consequences for law-enforcement and they should be held to a much higher standard than they are currently. However, these consequences should be set in place for everyone, illegal and legal. OOC bias will always exist, that needs to be mediated as well. I've got no idea on how though.

 

I don't feel like anything needs to be added on top of what Jessica already said here. I've witnessed two lonely PD officers walk through a gang-infested complex, being stopped in their tracks and surrounded. What did they do? Started hurling racist insults towards the gang members. I'd love to see that actually happen in real life, out of their cruisers, in a complex surrounded by violent gang members.

 

It's such an easy excuse to say: "Just report poor roleplay or portrayal". We did report the two officers and guess what? The admin almost sided with them, giving them a teeny tiny slap on their fingers, that's it. 


It's gone to the point where most illegal roleplayers won't even bother with reporting officers because the general consensus is that Legal FM and admins alike are more likely to side with LEO factions than with illegal factions. 

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It's a shame that threads like these devolve into undercutting each other and insults so quickly. The thread did bring up some valid points and I'd honestly be in support of some of them. The reality is though that we need each other for either of our types of roleplay to be fun. Imagine RPing a criminal with no chance of getting caught? It wouldn't be fun anymore. Vise versa, being a cop with no crime would be equally as boring. Should anyone have three accounts in the same faction? I can't imagine how you'd be able to keep up ABAS with all three and avoid metagming between accounts. But that isn't a legal-only issue either. I've personally encountered throw-away accounts with firearms used specifically to kidnap/kill/etc an opp from another gang to prevent a main character from receiving any blowback as a result. 

 

There problem I find is the sheer time difference between the two. Say, for example, you were a Police Officer II in the LSPD. From the point of initial recruitment to reaching that point takes approximately 1.5 to 2 months of roleplay and I'd estimate over 100 hours of in game time. There is a significant investment involved in that. Now, if someone does something that involves them being killed and they choose to CK their character as a result of an IC roleplay (frankly in certain situations opting to CK their character may be seen as the more realistic avenue depending on the situation) I feel they should still be offered the option to create a new character to replace their old one within the faction as well. Similar things have happened during my time in both official legal and illegal factions. If you have a good roleplayer OOCly and they haven't broken rules, etc I don't see why not from either side as becoming a high ranking member in a gang could be a similar time involvement as the legal side. That is a discussion for each individual group and whether they want that for their gang/agency/mob/etc.

 

As said in the OP "I would like to see these characters and their players be held to the same standards of the rest of the community. Fear should be a massive part of every interaction they have. They should value the life of their character as much as anyone else they interact with, and be apart of the community their effecting." which honestly is a great point. Nobody is invincible. Whether you're walking through gangland by yourself as an LEO or you charge the SWAT team with a baseball bat. Your actions will always have consequences and frankly it'd be powergaming to act otherwise. 

 

Ultimately we need each other for the game to be fun so coming to an amicable solution without just slinging mud at each other would be the best way to go about things. I'm not a staff member so I can't comment on reporting police officers in that sense, but I've seen at least a dozen be either removed or suspended from either PD or SD since the new year due to forum reports. So, please; whether it's a cop or not, please don't feel like you can't make a report if something's happened that you feel is against the rules and you have the evidence to back it up.

Edited by Sush
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3 hours ago, Gargam3i said:

 

I don't feel like anything needs to be added on top of what Jessica already said here. I've witnessed two lonely PD officers walk through a gang-infested complex, being stopped in their tracks and surrounded. What did they do? Started hurling racist insults towards the gang members. I'd love to see that actually happen in real life, out of their cruisers, in a complex surrounded by violent gang members.

 

It's such an easy excuse to say: "Just report poor roleplay or portrayal". We did report the two officers and guess what? The admin almost sided with them, giving them a teeny tiny slap on their fingers, that's it. 


It's gone to the point where most illegal roleplayers won't even bother with reporting officers because the general consensus is that Legal FM and admins alike are more likely to side with LEO factions than with illegal factions. 

I don't really agree with that. Example the report on Taryn Lane. By officer handbook she acted correctly. However admins ruled in favor of the reported party and punshied lane under rule 0 with an ajail. But in pd an ajail is not the end of the problem. You get oocly demoted, suspended or removed from the faction. Being demoted for an ooc issue is painful and hard work taken away in seconds. Resulting in demotivation and eventually resigning. 

 

Admins aren't bias from my experience when it comes to punishing pd for their rp behavior. But that's what I've experienced. 

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3 hours ago, Gargam3i said:

 

I don't feel like anything needs to be added on top of what Jessica already said here. I've witnessed two lonely PD officers walk through a gang-infested complex, being stopped in their tracks and surrounded. What did they do? Started hurling racist insults towards the gang members. I'd love to see that actually happen in real life, out of their cruisers, in a complex surrounded by violent gang members.

 

It's such an easy excuse to say: "Just report poor roleplay or portrayal". We did report the two officers and guess what? The admin almost sided with them, giving them a teeny tiny slap on their fingers, that's it. 


It's gone to the point where most illegal roleplayers won't even bother with reporting officers because the general consensus is that Legal FM and admins alike are more likely to side with LEO factions than with illegal factions. 

I would take this further than. Inform Smokey or one of the others of this behavior, as it's not acceptable, /at all/. I don't get out of my cruiser near TF13's territory, unless I have an extreme amount of backup, and this should be. Take screeshots of this shit, and pass it along. I promise Smokey actually cares about his faction, and that if he receives a report, it'll be dealt with.

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4 hours ago, Gargam3i said:

It's such an easy excuse to say: "Just report poor roleplay or portrayal". We did report the two officers and guess what? The admin almost sided with them, giving them a teeny tiny slap on their fingers, that's it. 

Unfortunately, it seems to be a pretty common cop out on both sides of the coin here - and while there's some truth to it, it's pretty agitating to see in response to a well-put argument. However, I think with PD there's more truth to it than usual. From my personal experience, upper PD staff take situations like the one you just described verseriously and I think they'd be pretty reasonable with you if you decided to bring it up.

 

That being said, I don't personally agree that every PK should be a CK - that's just ludicrous to me. Aside from my personal opinions on the matter and how it'd affect myself, I think that something like that would cause a widespread change in attitude OOCly that wouldn't be beneficial for anyone involved. 

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5 hours ago, Gargam3i said:

 

I don't feel like anything needs to be added on top of what Jessica already said here. I've witnessed two lonely PD officers walk through a gang-infested complex, being stopped in their tracks and surrounded. What did they do? Started hurling racist insults towards the gang members. I'd love to see that actually happen in real life, out of their cruisers, in a complex surrounded by violent gang members.

 

It's such an easy excuse to say: "Just report poor roleplay or portrayal". We did report the two officers and guess what? The admin almost sided with them, giving them a teeny tiny slap on their fingers, that's it. 


It's gone to the point where most illegal roleplayers won't even bother with reporting officers because the general consensus is that Legal FM and admins alike are more likely to side with LEO factions than with illegal factions. 

If this happened and they were killed for it, you can apply to have them CKed. Just like PD, SD or FD (Though I don't see them getting into a situation where they need to CK someone) could apply if it was the other way around.

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