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New property changes discussion


Timzii

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10 minutes ago, eMe said:

speak categorically as a landlord, and roleplaying in the real estate industry with my own business shop front (75K cost + 120K furniture + 50K labor), owning multiple houses (300K+ cost, 100K+ bespoke furnished interior, 50K labor for the designer, roleplay time, graphics time, tenant finding time PER HOUSE) that I am not excited by this update in the slightest, if anything it is more demoralizing then it is a fix for anything. 

There should be a financial benefit to being a landlord and anything sub 10K a week is frankly pathetic unless you have 10 properties on the go generating say 100K a week which is equally stupid. 

I can tell you this. This restriction isn't meant for you. As a real estate agent, you would be able to own more than a set amount properties once the whitelist process has happened, which will bring you a more realistic amount.

 

This change is here to prevent the passive income with a complete lack of effort by players not role playing this as a "full time job" as mentioned by your example here.

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Of course it's not all about the money. But if you're roleplaying a landlord, you're not going to invest $250,000 in something that's just not worth it. Realtors should earn enough money to afford a high-class luxury lifestyle. That being said, I also agree that it's not enough of RP involved in there, that's why along with the contracts there should be interaction with your tenants. But IRL, I'm trying to stay out of the way from my tenants, because they need peace too. You can check up on the property if anything is broken etc. and that's about it.

 

The fact that tenants "pay" rent from their paychecks was good system, because they don't "lose" anything. It was a good system and it worked out well, but now you need to lower the prices down and while you can earn money with other jobs, like re-selling vehicles, managing a business such as club and whatnot, you can't earn with real estate and I KNOW that it's not all about the money, but I've seen some characters that they care only about the money and they want to be able to afford a high class luxury life, which is one of my characters also. I don't care about money on the others as I'm not rich on any other character nor I plan to get rich. 

 

What I'm trying to say, I partially agree and partially disagree with this system. There is a lot of players, some have one vision others have another vision and opinions and like always you can't satisfy everyone. The system is now here and I highly doubt it will change, so landlords, just do your best and try to get the best out of the worst. Try to adapt yourself on this system or just find something else suitable for your characters (if there is anything else).

 

Same was with this 3x MP rule. I've lost quite a lot money on that, did I complained? You sure as hell I did. Did anything change? No. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win, one will agree and another one will disagree, you guys need to understand that we don't ruminate the same, I have my own opinions and you guys have yours, discussions like this will always be active, more players > more opinions > more complaints. Rule is here, script is here, get used to it or don't do it. Speaking as landlord with Real Estate company in my corporation ICly.

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31 minutes ago, eMe said:

You are clueless. Not only do you need to invest heavily into the property to get the property first and foremost (Upwards of 200K in most cases) you then need to go find a tenant, roleplay everything, keep a dynamic landlord/tenant relationship during their rental process and maintain their activity so it becomes even slightly profitable. 

 

Why would anyone invest from a financial perspective 300K to get a 2.5K return per week? I can make more doing /startshift at a 24/7, or I can just be in game for 3 hours and make 2.5K passively from the hourly paycheck... Before you get riled up saying it's a roleplay server and it should be done for the roleplay not the money, I know but it was an extreme example. Providing a high investment should net a high yield, you'll find most landlords now just stick to flipping cars instead and sooner or later there will not be a property to rent in sight.

Right, so because I've set rent to $2500 per week, I'm clueless, like different approaches to being a landlord don't exist. Your approach is for maximizing profits, shown clear as day in your example, if I'm wrong, you worded it poorly. My approach is to set a comfortable pace for those who may not have the time to play everyday. People who are interested in this won't stop what they're doing, even if 24/7 clerks earn more, that's how people are weeded out from this business.

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Just now, Law said:

Right, so because I've set rent to $2500 per week, I'm clueless, like different approaches to being a landlord don't exist. Your approach is for maximizing profits, shown clear as day in your example, if I'm wrong, you worded it poorly. My approach is to set a comfortable pace for those who may not have the time to play everyday. People who are interested in this won't stop what they're doing, even if 24/7 clerks earn more, that's how people are weeded out from this business.

 

"as a landlord, and roleplaying in the real estate industry with my own business shop front (75K cost + 120K furniture + 50K labor), owning multiple houses (300K+ cost, 100K+ bespoke furnished interior, 50K labor for the designer, roleplay time, graphics time, tenant finding time PER HOUSE)"

 

Your approach is not profitable and is so cheap that it is actually unrealistic. 

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I've seen multiple people quote that they purchase homes and design them and that it's an expense. Certainly, it is, but it's also still an asset you possess which retains its value. If you invest 300k into a house and then add 100k in furniture and pay a designer 50k, you've only lost 50k. Your furniture cost can be fully recouped at sale, your market price will be fully recouped unless you paid exorbitantly over it, and you'll probably make a premium for the excellent furnishing you've paid for. 

So all the money you're generating now is essentially interest on top of your "banked" money invested into the property. You are reaping capital gains as a landlord, and you do not face any of the real world costs of running a business of offering a place to live. You don't have to pay to replace furniture which gets broken, you don't have to pay for touch ups and cleanings between tenants, you don't have to pay for maintenance and new appliances when they break things, and so on. You barely even pay property tax as you would IRL.

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56 minutes ago, Ink said:

I've seen multiple people quote that they purchase homes and design them and that it's an expense. Certainly, it is, but it's also still an asset you possess which retains its value. If you invest 300k into a house and then add 100k in furniture and pay a designer 50k, you've only lost 50k. Your furniture cost can be fully recouped at sale, your market price will be fully recouped unless you paid exorbitantly over it, and you'll probably make a premium for the excellent furnishing you've paid for. 

So all the money you're generating now is essentially interest on top of your "banked" money invested into the property. You are reaping capital gains as a landlord, and you do not face any of the real world costs of running a business of offering a place to live. You don't have to pay to replace furniture which gets broken, you don't have to pay for touch ups and cleanings between tenants, you don't have to pay for maintenance and new appliances when they break things, and so on. You barely even pay property tax as you would IRL.

Well said.

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56 minutes ago, Ink said:

You don't have to pay to replace furniture which gets broken, you don't have to pay for touch ups and cleanings between tenants, you don't have to pay for maintenance and new appliances when they break things, and so on. You barely even pay property tax as you would IRL.

I understand what you are saying but you can make that complaint about any business. Are mechanic shops paying for their heavy duty equipment and maintaining them? Is any business paying utilities, insurance, etc. You can do that endlessly with any business so I don't think this specific criticism is fair.

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Just now, Power said:

I understand what you are saying but you can make that complaint about any business. Are mechanic shops paying for their heavy duty equipment and maintaining them? Is any business paying utilities, insurance, etc. You can do that endlessly with any business so I don't think this specific criticism is fair.


That's a super valid argument! There is always going to be more complexity we can reach for to arrive to something fully true to life. We do our best, within reason, to abstract that on the server. I'd say that that while there should be more expenses on mechanic garages (and this isn't the thread to talk about that specific can of worms) that most businesses on this server have at least some of their cost drivers represented. Currently, being a landlord on GTA:W has virtually no cost drivers beyond marketing costs. The cost of acquiring and designing real estate is considerable, but that money is pretty securely stored, and it's super easy to get back every cent plus a profit on sale, so in and of itself holding the asset is already usually a net profit.

All this server asks, at this point, is that landlords at least bring RP to the table. Too many people were just treating it as an extra income. Well-roleplayed landlords will have an opportunity to make money from players who are interested in the extra value of RPing with a landlord and having the rental experience, especially if that comes with some tangible benefits. 

At the end of the day, if you're refurbishing properties, you're already setting yourself up for 50-200k in profit on average. Anything you extract from your tenants is just extra money. It's still a profitable business, especially considering it's very flexible for an OOC schedule. 

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I fully agree and like some of the rules and changes they added with this update, will prevent people from hoarding housing. Though I know for a fact (not sure if it is being enforced now) that a while back, a friend was banned for 6 months, prior the ban he had an apartment, upon his unban, he logs in, apartment still his. Shows admins do not do inactivity evictions.

Edited by Vash Baldeus
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As you said, I don't like the new system either, not many users can afford to spend as many hours online in a week or not everyone works on things where you get a lot of money to pay the weekly rent, with the paycheck system you allow them to pay the rent and they can afford to live in that house.

 

You can pay the rent much more easily through paychecks.

 

At least the script could be different, something similar to the script for legal factions (They pay when they get paid, if he has been online for 10 hours then he pays 10 hours, read below) with minor changes, here:

 

- You set the price using the command (/setrentable), and when you want to receive the payment, 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks or a month (/rentdays) I don't know.

- The tenant plays and each paycheck he receives receives it in its entirety, but each paycheck is saved in the database.

- After a week or when you have set the week to pay the rent, a notification appears with the total to be paid, example:

• You have set the price, $300, weekly (1 week).

• After a week, he has been online for 10 hours, then he receives a notification that he has to pay $3000$ (10Hx$300), after this, he must use a command to pay the rent, I don't know, /payrent confirm, for example.

 

This is not very different from /banktransfer, but it's much fairer, you pay for the hours you play and you have a notification of when you have to pay the rent.

 

He pays, you get paid, everyone happy.

 

Because the only thing I see new in this new system is that you have to be telling the tenant to send the bank transfer and nothing else, at least with my changes it would be the same but more fair.

Edited by Jennie
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