Del Perro Pier PD

[Kenshi]

The more attentive LSPD officers already camp out there sometimes when there's businesses open, but having it designated as an actual safe zone might restrict some of the RP going on over there.

[Garras Up]

20 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

 

Yes but we're strictly talking homicides and murders here. And as shown, the actual homicide and murder rate in Santa Monica is actually very low. Whilst gangs do operate there - the main form of crime is muggings and robberies. Not "beating a 15 year old kid to death at the skate-park with a baseball bat for refusing to pay $200 to ride his BMX there". 

 

I'm all for crime happening in Vespucci. It would be dumb if the area was off-limits. Crime /should/ happen there. But its plagued with murders and assaults in the immediate vicinity of two police stations - there is a question of realism that comes into play when this happens frequently. And it really is daily. 

 

I don't know what happened with the '15 year old kid' being killed at the skatepark, but if the situation was really as bad as you say it was, it should've been reported not only on the forums, but forwarded to Faction Management. I also don't see it as unrealistic that ASSAULTS at the very least are happening in the vicinity of a police station. A few years ago I got robbed and jumped about 100 meters away from a police station, it made no difference where I was. Things still happen.

 

Also, I daresay that a fair few of the murders and situations are bought onto the victims by themselves. Unfortunately, alot of players don't particularly know how to roleplay around gangs or criminal rpers without being assaulted or murdered. In the 15 year old kid's situation for example, he could've rped fear of the skinheads (whom very well could've been 15-16 aswell) who were most likely threatening him with violence from the get-go and gave them $200 (which is the equivelent of 20 irl dollars on gtaw).

 

I know if a skinhead with a bat approached me and told me he was gonna bash my head in if I didn't give him $20, I'd give that shit to him in an instant. Just me tho.

 

Also FYI, they call it 'tax for using your bike here / using the gym' but in reality it's a robbery, they're not taxing anybody for anything. 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by El Ghetto Man

[lux]

Just now, El Ghetto Man said:

I don't know what happened with the '15 year old kid' being killed at the skatepark, but if the situation was really as bad as you say it was, it should've been reported not only on the forums, but forwarded to Faction Management. I also don't see it as unrealistic that ASSAULTS at the very least are happening in the vicinity of a police station. A few years ago I got robbed and jumped about 100 meters away from a police station, it made no difference where I was. Things still happen.

 

Also, I daresay that a fair few of the murders and situations are bought onto the victims by themselves. Unfortunately, alot of players don't particularly know how to roleplay around gangs or criminal rpers without being assaulted or murdered. In the 15 year old kid's situation for example, he could've rped fear of the skinheads (whom very well could've been 15-16 aswell) who were most likely threatening him with violence from the get-go and gave them $200 (which is the equivelent of 20 irl dollars on gtaw).

 

I know if a skinhead with a bat approached me and told me he was gonna bash my head in if I didn't give him $20, I'd give that shit to him in an instant. Just me tho.

 

 

 

You're skipping over the entire point of the thread. A server rule is that government buildings are classed as non crime zones, there are two police stations that do not fall under these rules - people here supporting are asking that they be considered in those rules aswell. 

 

I don't dispute that these things happen in real life. The people with the 15 year old kid were reported and told to stop taxing also. 

 

The issue is that there are multiple murders a day at Vespucci. A silly amount in all honesty. I don't dispute that it's realistic that murders happen - but they're happening multiple times a day within close proximity of many businesses, two police stations, two lifeguard stations and a fire marshal head quarters. 

 

People are asking for the rule that covers non crime zones be extended to these two police stations - were not trying to stop illegal RP down Vespucci, I'm all for it - it's the amount it happens in these hot spots that are right next to all those Government buildings.

 

I've been on Vespucci every single day since March - it's not a fun place for regular legal RPers to relax and meet friends but by putting these two stations as non crime zones it could hopefully bring it up to the standard the server expects and reduce the unrealistic murders and crime that happens a few feet away from where there would be CCTV and an active police presence. 

[Garras Up]

6 minutes ago, ashlyii said:

 

You're skipping over the entire point of the thread. A server rule is that government buildings are classed as non crime zones, there are two police stations that do not fall under these rules - people here supporting are asking that they be considered in those rules aswell. 

 

I don't dispute that these things happen in real life. The people with the 15 year old kid were reported and told to stop taxing also. 

 

The issue is that there are multiple murders a day at Vespucci. A silly amount in all honesty. I don't dispute that it's realistic that murders happen - but they're happening multiple times a day within close proximity of many businesses, two police stations, two lifeguard stations and a fire marshal head quarters. 

 

People are asking for the rule that covers non crime zones be extended to these two police stations - were not trying to stop illegal RP down Vespucci, I'm all for it - it's the amount it happens in these hot spots that are right next to all those Government buildings.

 

I've been on Vespucci every single day since March - it's not a fun place for regular legal RPers to relax and meet friends but by putting these two stations as non crime zones it could hopefully bring it up to the standard the server expects and reduce the unrealistic murders and crime that happens a few feet away from where there would be CCTV and an active police presence. 

Never said I was against the building itself and the immediate vicinity being a safezone, it should be a safezone, along with the pier (which i was fairly certain already WAS a safezone for some reason, guess I was tripping because it clearly isnt).

[Clip]

17 hours ago, ashlyii said:

 

Yes but we're strictly talking homicides and murders here. And as shown, the actual homicide and murder rate in Santa Monica is actually very low. Whilst gangs do operate there - the main form of crime is muggings and robberies. Not "beating a 15 year old kid to death at the skate-park with a baseball bat for refusing to pay $200 to ride his BMX there". 

 

I'm all for crime happening in Vespucci. It would be dumb if the area was off-limits. Crime /should/ happen there. But its plagued with murders and assaults in the immediate vicinity of two police stations - there is a question of realism that comes into play when this happens frequently. And it really is daily. 

 

most of the "deaths" are due to people who can't be bothered to roleplay and just /acceptdeath which is then roleplayed as a death, a lot of the time people are beaten into what should be unconsciousness or just "downed", you forget how quickly assaults can happen and how quickly someone can hit the ground/or leave the area even so close to police stations

 

if people actually roleplayed things properly instead of accepting death as soon as they can I don't think this would be nearly as big of an issue, sure there would still be the violence but it would be more along the lines of common assaults and muggings rather than the "murders" they become

making the area a safe zone would absolutely decimate the illegal rp around the area, especially around the skatepark. like el ghetto said the "taxation" is just straight up theft from opportunistic kids and most of the "murder/assault" boils down to people being approached by a few local kids and then putting themselves in a situation where they get attacked and then 90% of them just /acceptdeath instead of roleplaying, it would remove any kind of consequence for not rping fear/common sense, but I agree with the pier and areas of the beach being a safezone 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Clip

[Daquan Kingston]

17 hours ago, ashlyii said:

The issue is that there are multiple murders a day at Vespucci. A silly amount in all honesty. I don't dispute that it's realistic that murders happen - but they're happening multiple times a day within close proximity of many businesses, two police stations, two lifeguard stations and a fire marshal head quarters. 

It's not realistic either to have two lifeguard stations and 6 lifeguards on duty for a total of 1-5 people who are on the shore, but clearly the ratio is highly inflated such as is the amount of vandal acts.

I see this as an IC issue and it should be solved via IC intervention. If somebody is that motivated, stupid, or whatever you want to call it to run your pockets in a public spot, then let him carry that risk in his character and move on.

EDIT: Do not take this personal, this is simply to say that I prefer looking at things in-character based on the GTA W dimension and not based on IRL statistics and correlations.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Daquan Kingston

[lux]

But, if we're going by server rules, as we should - Government buildings are non-crime areas. These two areas are not currently under those rules and should be.

 

This would still mean that crime can happen on the beach and around the skate-park. The police station would not be able to cover the skate-park with CCTV as there is a gigantic statue in the way. 

 

Illegal RP can still happen but putting this in place can hopefully deter illegal RPers from being idiotic. There's so many businesses on the strip of Vespucci and the pier and while I'm not against people committing crimes around the beach, the immersion is definitely at a low-point as it's a constant area of crime and death. By placing the non-crime zone at these two police stations, it will help reduce these things not remove them entirely. 

 

We're a Heavy RP server - things should be taken into account sometimes to help areas flourish and bring people there to roleplay - a beach is an ultimate tourism spot, so of course robberies and muggings will happen - but they're happening in really dumb, unrealistic places that kills the immersion of legal RPers. Vespucci is the wild-west right now where realistically, it should be no where near as bad as it currently is and that's using real life crime statistics of an area that, while it can't be that populated in-game, would still be a well populated area.

 

Exactly like we treat the highways from an IC perspective - the same should be given to the beach. It's give and take. The illegal RPers don't notice or care about the effect they're having on the legal RPers there. Cooperation and discussion to reach a middle ground would be wonderful - and I think by having these two areas (not including the skate-park but it would make people think twice as they totally ignore the fact there's a police station less than 100 feet away) would really help the legal RPers whilst also not stopping the gangs or illegal RPers from doing their thing. It's a good middle ground between reducing the ridiculously high number of murders and assaults (a few hundred feet from a police station) and still allowing criminals and gangs to control their areas and do what they do. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ashlyii

[joshua]

the safezones should have no influence on actual, smart illegal factions and rpers when most of their shit is done professionally and covertly, avoiding any eyes of the public. killing a 15 year old kid because he kept using the skate park and didn't have $100 to pay is not that, same with rampant assaults, robberies and murders in an area that would realistically be crawling with people.

 

it's funny, people love bringing up the argument of 'YOU CANT DO THAT IN THE STREET, ICLY ITD BE BUSY AS FUCK' but when we apply that same argument to vespucci beach, somehow it's always invalid. arguably, it'd be even more dangerous to commit crimes at said beach as it's high in FOOT traffic, not vehicle traffic.

Edited August 10, 2020 by joshua

[Daquan Kingston]

I politely disagree. I think this must be tackled IC from LSPD, as crime is their concern. There are hundreds of miles worth of shore, you can easily move your roleplay to a shore that has less crime. There is a reason why I sunbath IC on the other side of the pier, or Chumash/Paleto.  I have been RPign in the same area for just as much, and found a way around it ICly. (Keep in mind, I actually live and daily have to go in front of the local hispanic gang, and the skinheads on the other side, while also running my business just across from an African American character) It is easy to ask others to do something out of the game, but if you really want to set up the standard of the server, tackle things in-character. While I can easily understand that you are so invested due to the frequent usage of the word "lifeguard" and bring it up quite often, I think you guys should find a solution from your characters just as well, because these are the circumstances both our characters (sadly) have found themselves in, in the "wild-west" as you like to call it. 

[lambchops]

Only active faction property should be safezones if anything, we should not aim to create magical no-roleplay barriers.