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UCP Turf Map


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To be honest here? Useless thing. We have other things way more important to be done and overhauled. It doesn't affect anything in character whatsoever it's just another way to brag about territory and turfs that are not claimed ICly in the proper way gangs do in real life. This is useless both IC and OOC. If gangs are placed in the same turf? Solve this ICly. Someone gotta move away.

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4 hours ago, joaoivis said:

To be honest here? Useless thing. We have other things way more important to be done and overhauled. It doesn't affect anything in character whatsoever it's just another way to brag about territory and turfs that are not claimed ICly in the proper way gangs do in real life. This is useless both IC and OOC. If gangs are placed in the same turf? Solve this ICly. Someone gotta move away.

So you are basically saying "DM for it, come on!", am I correct?

 

This has nothing to do with bragging?

 

Your statement about "proper way gangs do in real life" makes no sense. How can a faction who roleplays in a place for some time and belongs to a steady faction will deal with something that is completely out of proportion realism wise, like a bunch of randoms appearing in the heart of your RP just because an admin wasn't aware that you were there? That was clearly an OOC bad call, not IC'ly.

 

Or a bunch of people with no thread just looking for DM fests, you realize shooting someone leads to police attention, arrests, loosing of guns and such that a good faction wouldn't have faced in real life but yet it happened due to what? OOC, a bad OOC organization of said area, since IC it would make NO SENSE. 

 

If you claim to be involved in illegal RP but not in street gang RP then I guess you can't be familiarized with the concerns. 

 

And to the person who said "in LSRP" this and that. We never said this would be exactly like on LSRP, big areas shouldn't be allowed to be claimed either, only the "hearts" of gangs. Like 1 block or 2. Everything else wouldn't be displayed at all. 

 

Gangs in real life can be next to each other street wise, yes. But in the same projects or blocks?, Like exactly the same? Without IC roleplay about it, like just an OOC spawn there when some good faction already claimed the area? Not good.

Edited by ElDiablo
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15 hours ago, Katja said:

Turf maps don’t exist in the real world.

They do actually. In America at least. You can google gangs in your area and you will find a map with different colors in areas of the city. You'll find out what area is the gang active in and you'll even get the gangs names. 

 

I'm pretty sure even the police department keeps a turf map, the ones in gang unit at least. 

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3 hours ago, Hustle said:

They do actually. In America at least. You can google gangs in your area and you will find a map with different colors in areas of the city. You'll find out what area is the gang active in and you'll even get the gangs names. 

 

I'm pretty sure even the police department keeps a turf map, the ones in gang unit at least. 

I live in Chicago. I assure you that no real street gang is referring to a turf map when trying to establish themselves. This is information they obtained by being very familiar with the area, growing up there, finding out (even the hard way) that where they want to be belongs to someone else. Or in GTA:W terms, that information is obtained ICly. 
Having said that, the suggestion itself seems to be deviated from. Applying OOCly for turf, the original suggestion, is very different than having IFM recognize a certain area as being dominated by a faction after lore and RP has been established (similar to how police do it irl). I’m not saying turf maps don’t exist in the sense that they LITERALLY don’t exist, and it’s not that a map shouldn’t exist on GTA:W. Just not one that is visible to everyone. 
 

Sure, people can MG screenshots if they wish to take the time to comb through pages. I’m not sure that making it easier by providing an OOC turf map and saving them time and effort in their MG is the answer. 

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13 hours ago, ElDiablo said:

@eTaylor And as for "forcing people to RP something". Ok, forget about the good factions lore and concept then, according to you. Well no, people in the server should RP an official validated concept of a neighborhood during a good faction's existence. Why? Because it's realistic. 

 

How can you call arbitrary something that has been built with effort in character for months?

 

ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
 
adjective
 
  1. based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

 

Arbitrary is randomly spawning in places that realistically you wouldn't be able to, but yeah I agree that at least IFM should have a very updated one to avoid unrealistic events.

It is arbitrary and it’s forcing people what they can and can’t do, all turf maps do is generate OOC conflict and IC problems. People are purposely not articulating the problems the map brings because the map gives them power. The map used in it’s suggested form is nothing but a tool for a gang to dictate that others can’t claim areas which they otherwise have no capacity to claim. Don’t have the soldiers or the activity to maintain dominance? Well my name is on the turf map so you can’t do shit.
 

Back up your turf IC, if you can’t hold it you shouldn’t keep it. You can write a thousand pages of lore but that alone means absolutely nothing, I could write hours of pages about gang lore and then claim entire regions for my own with that logic. Create your presence IG, nobody reads your lore they judge you by your hold IG. This is the same argument that cops should be fearful of bangers. They don’t know you, you don’t have creds. You don’t get free creds by writing “lore”. 

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2 hours ago, Katja said:

I live in Chicago. I assure you that no real street gang is referring to a turf map when trying to establish themselves. This is information they obtained by being very familiar with the area, growing up there, finding out (even the hard way) that where they want to be belongs to someone else. Or in GTA:W terms, that information is obtained ICly. 
Having said that, the suggestion itself seems to be deviated from. Applying OOCly for turf, the original suggestion, is very different than having IFM recognize a certain area as being dominated by a faction after lore and RP has been established (similar to how police do it irl). I’m not saying turf maps don’t exist in the sense that they LITERALLY don’t exist, and it’s not that a map shouldn’t exist on GTA:W. Just not one that is visible to everyone. 
 

Sure, people can MG screenshots if they wish to take the time to comb through pages. I’m not sure that making it easier by providing an OOC turf map and saving them time and effort in their MG is the answer. 

How is a turf map metagame? It’s not providing any information on characters except for their gangly whereabouts. I remember in South Side Carson Crip we had an issue where a sueno gang was trying to start up in the middle of our turf and we had to deal with them through fights and killing. Each time an admin was notified no action was taken. Want to know why? The admins themselves were even asking “and where is your gang’s location” even when we had a thread up. 
 

I do not see any harm in turf maps, I feel as if rules are being broken more without turf maps and a lot of deathmatch goes unsolved. 

 

I can provide you with an example here and now. Let’s say I want to start a gang with a massive amount of members in the middle of Hillside 13’s turf because they haven’t been active for a couple of days. My gang takes up arms first day and decides to kill every last Hillside gang member they see like it’s single player to dominate the turf. That’s not realistic and that’s definitely not roleplay. That’s just deathmatch with no IC substance.

 

I am not saying when having turf maps it should automatically deflect gangs away from the area, no. If anything turf maps should be used to set things into perspective in admin situations between the gang members from the controlling faction themselves and other players.

 

Like for instance... if some random comes into the turf provoking and dies, the new turf map rule should have a CK clause inside of it to determine the severity of messing around in gang hoods. Something to to that effect. I don’t think you’re fully understanding how the gangs are currently working in game at this time. 
 

There have been cases (99 Mafia Crip and Outlaw 20s Bloods) of gangs literally sharing the same street and block zone PKing each other on an hourly basis with the same characters over and over. There was nothing established in game, you can say “oh just tag walls” with what tagging system? Lmao. Turf is an IC issue yeah, but there needs to be an OOC clearance and understanding to be set in place with these to better identify situations inside of them. 

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1 hour ago, eTaylor said:

It is arbitrary and it’s forcing people what they can and can’t do, all turf maps do is generate OOC conflict and IC problems. People are purposely not articulating the problems the map brings because the map gives them power. The map used in it’s suggested form is nothing but a tool for a gang to dictate that others can’t claim areas which they otherwise have no capacity to claim. Don’t have the soldiers or the activity to maintain dominance? Well my name is on the turf map so you can’t do shit.
 

Back up your turf IC, if you can’t hold it you shouldn’t keep it. You can write a thousand pages of lore but that alone means absolutely nothing, I could write hours of pages about gang lore and then claim entire regions for my own with that logic. Create your presence IG, nobody reads your lore they judge you by your hold IG. This is the same argument that cops should be fearful of bangers. They don’t know you, you don’t have creds. You don’t get free creds by writing “lore”. 

I don’t disagree when you say contest turfs IC but when you members in your faction with actual OOC lives and responsibilities, you can’t force the game on them. If anything, I feel like when factions are trying to get a thread (this is if turf maps get accepted), they can apply to contest for an area on the turf map and actively roleplay there in game with proof.
 

That’s how it was on LSRP except LSRP’s RoE was ass compared to the one on GTA World. I feel as if this turf map suggestion is a good idea because it can validate what gang controls what and if an up and coming gang wants a piece out of someone’s area, they can apply for a turf contest. 

 

GTA World is unique enough with the script, how about some new RoE rules to go along with the turf maps as well in order to recognize situations that are happening in game. 400-500 players on a daily basis are a lot to manage, if we create a turf map with some new RoE guidelines not only will it be revolutionary for the gang community, it would be easier for admins to solve situations going on inside of these gang turfs.

 

Explain how a simple turf map is going to deter from something OOC? Like come on, just because a gang did not get the turf they applied for? That can be solved by a gang leader applying for a turf contest/gang war/turf agreement with the current controlling gang. 

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IFM need to be more proactive. Unless someone has a good reason for setting up in an area known as the turf of another gang, they should offer suggestions of alternatives and work with the potential new faction to refine their concept. The hands off approach isn’t working, and this is a consequence.

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