Limits on Extortion

[TranXify]

5 minutes ago, RoryR said:

First of all, there should be a hard limit on the maximum amount you can be extorted for per week. How this amount is calculated is tricky. My first thought was to suggest a percentage of the business' market price (around 5%). That lead me to thinking if businesses/services without a brick and mortar footing also get extorted, and if so how would the limit on those be calculated, perhaps a percentage of the owner's total assets? Profit and/or sales is another option, but I don't think that could be as easily enforced as the market price and/or total asset alternatives. The reason I think this is necessary is to give business owners at least some piece of mind that they cannot be completely bankruppted because 5 different factions want to extort them, especially as most share the opinion of this being an IC issue.

I do agree that the exact maximum amount is tricky to calculate. I don't think 5% of the market price of a business is fair. I am not sure what is the market price of businesses, but my educated guess is about 500k. 5% of 500k is 25K. Getting extorted for 25K/week is absolutely insane. I am pretty sure that's more expensive than what any faction is currently charging.

 

Having the limit based on the owner's total assets is also not fair. Some people have a lot of money on the server for one reason or another, but they don't use all their money. I don't think it is fair to tax two different people who are running the same business a different amount simply because they have more assets/script money.

 

Profit and/or sales is a very good thing to consider when coming up with the maximum amount, but they vary wildly from opening to opening and from business to business.

 

Something that I would like to highlight is that currently some extortion rates are literally higher than what people pay for their leases, which is a bit weird. I've seen leases vary from 10k/month to 30k/month. Meanwhile, it is quite common to see people getting extorted for 10k/week, which is 40k/month. Hence, you're literally paying less for your lease than you are paying for the extortionists.

[TranXify]

4 minutes ago, liafriuli said:

I will not support any of these ideas until you guys haven't tried to make a change in-character first. Your options are not limited to hiring a security firm and going to the police. Think about the situation, see where the problem coming from and organize a group to make some change. 

 

In reality, if a certain crime is too common in an area, people organize groups to step up against the issue. They can protect each other, they can make petitions for harsher laws, they can protest for more extreme police actions, they can protest for a dedicated task force just for this reason and a million other things.

 

As I see now, you guys wish to solve this issue with new rules without even trying to make in-character changes first. You can make $30,000 a day with a two-hour opening, even though you cry when someone extorts your business for $20,000 a week. This is not okay in my eyes. I agree, extortion is a problem and needs to be solved but not with new rules.

 

You need to step up, organize something, and handle this thing just like how you would handle in reality. Protests for police action, new laws, anything.

I don't think that the problem with extortion can be solved in any one singular way. It needs multiple approaches and multiple solutions working hand in hand. I can not speak for everyone else, but I know that this topic is not the only way I am attempting to do my piece of trying and balancing this issue.

[gimmie]

1 minute ago, TranXify said:

Something that I would like to highlight is that currently some extortion rates are literally higher than what people pay for their leases, which is a bit weird. I've seen leases vary from 10k/month to 30k/month. Meanwhile, it is quite common to see people getting extorted for 10k/week, which is 40k/month. Hence, you're literally paying less for your lease than you are paying for the extortionists.

 

Because leases are fucking low.

 

A good bar can generate 20k in one opening. Why should they be able to pay off the lease in 1 opening?

[Tsarna]

5 minutes ago, RoryR said:

@UTOPIA raises some good points and seems like he comes from a higher quality faction which approaches the topic well. Despite that, I still think some rules should be in place for this sort of RP, just like they do with robberies or scams.

 

First of all, there should be a hard limit on the maximum amount you can be extorted for per week. How this amount is calculated is tricky. My first thought was to suggest a percentage of the business' market price (around 5%). That lead me to thinking if businesses/services without a brick and mortar footing also get extorted, and if so how would the limit on those be calculated, perhaps a percentage of the owner's total assets? Profit and/or sales is another option, but I don't think that could be as easily enforced as the market price and/or total asset alternatives. The reason I think this is necessary is to give business owners at least some piece of mind that they cannot be completely bankruppted because 5 different factions want to extort them, especially as most share the opinion of this being an IC issue.

 

I also think there needs to be something in place to stop faction after faction extorting the same business, but I'm unsure of how that would be enforced. Similar to above, most rightly think this is an IC issue, and you should go to the group extorting you and ask for help. But what if they don't help? What if a number of factions are each extorting you and none of them do anything about each other? I think there needs to be a rule in place that makes factions either forfeit the business they are 'protecting' or defend it. Since the businesses they extort are essentially an extension of their terrirtory, and therefore and extension of themselves as a faction, surely it would be expected they either cut their losses and move on, or fight for it.

Yeah, actually the thing is - they don´t. Not going to say that 100 percent of them do not, but my experience was, they will say "We deal with that" (many many many experiences) and "You do not have to worry about it anymore" - but when push comes to shove, nothing has been done. 

Can tell a situation: Russians vs Albanians = Out of Towners. Two months ago I got visit from the Albanians who came, full bar, with 15 people, and declared "We are back in Los Santos and Del Perro is Little Albany now. We need 15 000 weekly from you". All of them sitting around, other people as weel, and I told them "I pay the Russians already". They went "No, you pay us now". Until this time it has been not solved between them - it actually is a bit funny already to see, how they try to be faster, whoever gets the extortion money first. I should take bets on that ?

Yeah, we will go and protest for new laws and police action - so one mobster can write our names down and make some phone pictures of the ones, who want to organise something against now, the whole group of mobsters, and then one by one, the people will be taken into the woods or to the bottom of the ocean ? It has been said - "You have to RP fear", so we actually do that (because IRL you would fear the mob also), only a little percentage will go and start some open protests about police doing more against business extortion or call for new laws: this will, certainly, mostly, end in death. What you can do, is, like I mentioned, go to police, but like I said - I did it lots before, but do not bother anymore, because nothing never changed. So I play along. And this suggestion, that organise something - what exactly? Some vigilante or spy group, who will stalk and assassinate or storm the mob Headquarters? That is also not going to happen. 

Hiding, security and cops are the things, but like @Kuldeep mentioned, they all have their down-side. All there is to say, if the admins try to regulate many aspects of the game, which is fine (character development, realistic display of wealth, property, work, et cetera), then the criminal elements should live up to the same standards, and this sadly means, that there should be indeed rules in how many businesses they can extort. 

Sidenote: if any of the illegal factions are doing that, not going after every business and RP-ing about quality not quantity, then Kudos to them. Not going to say that those people do not exist, but mostly, it is not so. And those people should have no problem about some regulations (like I said - there are many regarding realistic portrayal, etc) being in place, because their RP won´t be affected by that.

 

[TranXify]

Just now, gimmie said:

 

Because leases are fucking low.

 

A good bar can generate 20k in one opening. Why should they be able to pay off the lease in 1 opening?

Keep in mind that those places have other expenses, and not all businesses are the same. Some businesses need to hire more staff per opening and hence make less profit per opening. For a bar or lounge, you might need a bartender and maaaybe 1/2 security guard and you're good. Meanwhile, for a stripclub, you need dancers, guards, bartenders and maybe a manager on top. You also have the costs of liquor, advertisements, protection/extortion, personal expenses. Hence, the expenses add up, and some businesses are naturally more profitable than others.

[DLimit]

3 hours ago, UTOPIA said:

As an addition to my previous post; can any of you who have been so strenuously extorted explain your situations, and how you have tried to work your way out of your situation?

I've never had any issue with being extorted, as Yoska's pawn shop required a bit of protection and access to a supply of firearms. He paid $8,000 a week in exchange for first-hand or second-hand access to a list of firearms that were purchasable on shipping day, alongside with the Mob intimidating, assaulting, or executing any individual that threatened the shop. It was based on a mutual relationship, which did not require Yoska to desire to escape the situation. However, when he felt as-if it was going down-hill, he planned to change his alias and appearance, alongside with hiring a DECOY OWNER, in order to prevent the mafia from executing him. He was executed one day before executing the plan.

Reason for execution? Justified... one of his hits resulted in a reputable mob member undergoing two years imprisonment, while also attracting heat in mob-controlled territory.

10/10 would be extorted again.

Seriously... the business was being extorted by three criminal organizations... Yoska chose one of them. Guess what happened? The other two backed off and Yoska was attaining connections with these mobsters... go with it, as it WILL develop into some deep R.P. once they recognize that you're  reliable person. Humorous part is this... He chose the expensive option, as the expensive option provided him with access to firearms, private poker games, protection, recognition at charity events etc...

If you're being extorted by people that cannot portray it, properly, then hire one that CAN extort a business, effectively. You won't regret it, unless your only concern is script cash. P.S. REPORT THE PEOPLE THAT CANNOT PORTRAY EXTORTION, EFFECTIVELY.

Edited July 2, 2020 by DLimit

[Trupiano]

1 hour ago, liafriuli said:

I will not support any of these ideas until you guys haven't tried to make a change in-character first. Your options are not limited to hiring a security firm and going to the police. Think about the situation, see where the problem coming from and organize a group to make some change. 

 

In reality, if a certain crime is too common in an area, people organize groups to step up against the issue. They can protect each other, they can make petitions for harsher laws, they can protest for more extreme police actions, they can protest for a dedicated task force just for this reason and a million other things.

 

As I see now, you guys wish to solve this issue with new rules without even trying to make in-character changes first. You can make $30,000 a day with a two-hour opening, even though you cry when someone extorts your business for $20,000 a week. This is not okay in my eyes. I agree, extortion is a problem and needs to be solved but not with new rules.

 

You need to step up, organize something, and handle this thing just like how you would handle in reality. Protests for police action, new laws, anything.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Henning