Law Enforcement and "Bad Shoots" on the server

[SaintBatemanofWallStreet]

I think the problem with the whole situation was the lackluster response of "Oh my character is troubled" which is probably the vaguest excuse that you can give for something like that. If you want to say your character is trouble, have something to send to the admin to back it up enforce that it's an IC issue and not you just jumping out and mag dumping someone because they tapped your car and you wanted to shoot someone. That being said, even then, it shouldn't be a blank check for people to play fuck fuck games with their character.

Are there missed opportunities for bad shoots on this server? Yes - absolutely. They're missed OOC and IC all the time.

Is that a missed opportunity for a bad shoot scenario instead of what it was, which was deathmatching? No.

[Alexandra_Forge]

@LSNN --- We know what you woulda done with it... #Stirthepot .. 

 

I can agree it would have made for awesome RP... But honestly, and I say this without bias, having been on both sides of the legal fence...... Would the IC report have ever made it past the secret chambers of the IA?

 

My only concern is (And I get it to an extent) that their is no separation of powers on multiple levels.... We as prosecutors are seemingly expected to provide criminal misconduct found on officers to the PD's IA, where as we should act on those findings in house, concluding our own investigations.

 

Lookin' back on the arrest of a specific officer.... I can say that the JSA is almost unwilling to go the lengths that are NEEDED because their was a tremendous backlash from the community, not only icly, but OOCly when SABI arrested them... The drama created on both levels was distasteful.

 

In a nutshell.. would this have made awesome police accountability RP to set an example for cops actions (Be it intentional or unintentional)...?? YES... But at the end of the day the OOC spectrum just simply wont allow, and I can say that I agree with just nullifying the IC portion until our legal factions operate without prejudice.

 

The system to effectively combat "bad shootouts" and the likes is not fluent enough..

 

I am not saying cops bad, criminals good... I am simply saying that even I am discouraged from going after a cop (Or even the PD as a whole) when they are clearly in the wrong because it is a lot harder to break through the OOC bonds than it is with Jimmy Fishsticks, the player with 20 hours...

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Alexandra_Forge

[Alexandra_Forge]

7 minutes ago, SaintBatemanofWallStreet said:

 That being said, even then, it shouldn't be a blank check for people to play fuck fuck games with their character.

This is gold ?

[secretamerican]

47 minutes ago, Alexandra_Forge said:

I can agree it would have made for awesome RP... But honestly, and I say this without bias, having been on both sides of the legal fence...... Would the IC report have ever made it past the secret chambers of the IA?

I think you might have some issue with PD, but this particular incident occurred with an SD Deputy. I can assure you that their character would have been almost immediately arrested and ushered over for the DA to handle if it were allowed to remain IC. To imply there is some sort of secret conspiracy to keep cops/deputies from being punished is very odd claim to make. If that were so then FM and the legal faction leaders of PD and SD would have every right to purge Internal Affairs of those that go out of their way to protect people that have unquestionably bad shootings like this one was.

 

I'm not sure the Theresa Valdez case is a great example of how cop investigations should go. It seems like things were rushed and shoved through in that particular case.

[liq]

OOC interjection for someone role-playing the byproduct of their environment and developing a character that's human first and works as a cop as opposed to the vice versa which is done by the majority of cop role-players is always not taken lightly.

 

Cops benefit from a lot of public trust. Consequently, cop role-players benefit from a lot of community trust. They're trusted to make sure they don't play to win and that they provide quality police role-play. For a character that's been developed that way and has a corrupt history that's perpetrated the shoot first and ask questions later mentality, who then makes an IC judgement call to shoot someone who rams their vehicle because they flee in a gang neighborhood when it's pitch black outside, I don't see the reason to cut it off on an OOC basis when it benefits the majority to let it play out through IC means.

 

This is how you're hindering good cop role-players from role-playing characters and somehow they're expected to put restrains on themselves because they might get reported. I'm not saying cop role-players should get away with murder but I'm saying it makes everybody in this community of players who enjoy seedy characters and expect to get role-play in return instead of OOC interjection become sour and reticent to how they should go about their role-play.

 

I've been saying it before and I say it again — there's a lack of IC repercussions for IC actions. Lost a case in court? Questionable police shooting? Institutional corruption? Just role-play about it. And this is particularly why the Sheriff's Department records and reviews all deputy-involved-shootings, whereas all of our members' characters write use of force reports when they get in situations such as this. OOC interjections and drawing lines in the sand about what might be DM, what might not be DM, and overthrowing first-hand decisions and weeks of role-play just makes people trust orange less.

[Alexandra_Forge]

7 minutes ago, secretamerican said:

I think you might have some issue with PD, but this particular incident occurred with an SD Deputy. I can assure you that their character would have been almost immediately arrested and ushered over for the DA to handle if it were allowed to remain IC. To imply there is some sort of secret conspiracy to keep cops/deputies from being punished is very odd claim to make. If that were so then FM and the legal faction leaders of PD and SD would have every right to purge Internal Affairs of those that go out of their way to protect people that have unquestionably bad shootings like this one was.

 

I'm not sure the Theresa Valdez case is a great example of how cop investigations should go. It seems like things were rushed and shoved through in that particular case.

NO secret conspiracy... But it's not exactly public either --- Which I am not saying anything is wrong with that, as it falls in line with IRL procedure... IN retrospect, police accountability is an issue IRL as well...

 

I don't really have an issue either... I am just not one to pretend like everything is all hunky dory, or as legit as it's proclaimed to be.. And it's all a matter of opinion, and what I gather from obviously being apart of conversations within members of these factions...

 

But, imma ease on out of this discussion.

 

 

 

 

[Shekh]

by ur logic I should be able to RP a serial killer and kill people for no reason. It happens IRL, murders like this happen way more than cops having "bad shoots". so by ur logic, i should be able to wear a clown mask and go around at night stabbing people, since we're talking abt realism here.

[Jax]

Yeah, that's cool and all, but if a civilian would have done that, with the same RP as the cop had, the civilian would have been Ajailed or even banned.
 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Jax

[.George]

It's pretty clear to everyone that nothing would've ever come out of this ICly. You say voiding of this has taken away a lot of RP, but the original trouble is that there was no RP at all to start with!
To start off with, the murder happened 16 days ago. And what did happen in those 16 days? Nothing!
If this had happened IRL, there would've been news that respond to murders, there would be autopsy ( mind you, server had coroners for 2-3 months and it was shut down without even notice ) and ten thousand other things happening in the background, yet current state of server we don't even have someone to remove the corpse after it has been found.
All your arguements how it should have been IC and has taken away a lot of RP fall short simply due to fact that nothing was done by now, and don't get me wrong, I don't blame you, as someone simply put it, server at current phase simply can't support some of the factors that would be present irl in cases like this one.

[Mór-Ríoghain]

I'd have loved to RP it.. if they had arrested me and not deathmatched me. Hard to bring RP out of it when my character was murdered over it, ending any avenue of RP. I see people are complaining that this could have brought great RP: Umm.. it happened almost three weeks ago and nothing came of it? You're pulling this bullshit out of your ass.

 

Also how does disallowing random deathmatching take away from LEO RP exactly? Literally nothing came of this. There was no RP or development gained for either side, and I really don't think that LEO RPers being held accountable for rulebreaking is 'hindering RP' - if you believe that.. consider going somewhere else? People always like to pull the excuse 'it happens IRL' -- okay, cool, so I can play a serial killer? A pedophile? A terrorist?

 

If I go into a club and murder people (like the nightclub attack in 2016) and claim it was IC reasoning do you think that would fly? Hell no! I'd go the way of RexSmithy, people seriously want a double standard here and it's fucking ridiculous. On a roleplay server PK's and Character Kills should ALWAYS be a last resort since they can pretty much be considered to be the 'end' of a story and using them prematurely hinders roleplay it does not foster it.

 

Know what would have fostered RP? My character being taken down non-lethally and getting a record; allowing for a relationship to be built with the arresting officers.. instead that did not happen.. because they executed my character for a flimsy reason and nothing was allowed to come of it further.

 

The other person in the car (Reina) is not going to RP their best friend getting murdered infront of their eyes for a PK, it would literally make no sense. The entire situation was ridiculous from start to finish; and at the end of the day no matter how "realistic" you want to get (which on this server is usually just a means to murder people for some reason) this is NOT REAL LIFE. In real life, my character would NOT be coming back: there would likely be pedestrians on the street RECORDING THE INCIDENT and in this era of anti-police protests and civil unrest people might actually care - but here's the kicker; this is a ROLEPLAY SERVER hindered by it's playerbase. I don't know if you noticed but the streets are empty 99% of the time which isn't really indicative of a city supposed to replicate Los Angeles, phones don't have that kind of functionality on here!

 

Frankly you can take your whining and shove it. Nothing came of this, so stop pretending that something COULD HAVE - what, when? In the future? A month from now? A year from now? Plenty of time was given for this magical stellar RP that all you people who have had nothing to do with the situation keep complaining about - yet.. where is it? Nothing happened. It was a completely pointless case of deathmatching - if you want to RP something like that do it yourself? Don't pretend that my case of being deathmatched for no reason was somehow the apex of roleplay when all it was was a stupid situation in which someone broke the rules and tried to hide behind their whitelist to get out of it.

 

Thanks.

 

edit: I'm also not going to RP magically survivng getting shot in the neck, it's stupid. If you're going to shoot someone with the intention to kill then be prepared to deal with the consequences when that person actually fucking dies from their injuries? I keep it IC and I try my best to keep it realistic, if my character is shot I'm not going to cheat the damage system into somehow magically surviving a situation. Why would you shoot someone more than once with the intention to kill and then complain when they RP dying?

Edited June 30, 2020 by sio