Current State of Extorting Businesses

[Engelbert]

Just now, my_g said:

Illegal rp will always be the main source of disputes and reports, it doesn’t really need an overhaul but it obviously can still be improved. But same goes for legal rp, there’s more than enough lack of proper portrayal over there as well, the only difference being that it’s actually somewhat of a challenge to properly portray a criminal. All you guys have to do is properly portray a normal human being and still have enough trouble with that as it is.

Yes people usually do have issues with portraying something that isn't themselves. I seen this many times and some people still do it.

But it's not as bad as before I guess. For some its tad harder cause, you know I personally see no obvious extortion at home, but I imagine that US, given it's a big big country has different situations in play everyday. In the end it all comes down, character creation, what type of personality they are.

Some people forget this and base it after themselves, more importantly after their gaming self.

[DasFroggy]

9 minutes ago, Pillowy said:

 

While I agree that the problem won't be fixed without a significant amount of player reports flowing in - from personal experience, as long as it doesn't result in my character being killed or other such nonsense, I'll usually leave it alone. I want the situation to be over and done with, and making a report(especially a forum one) just drags it out for days at best. From what I've seen, even a lot of in-game reports are told to be dragged to the forums. Is it counter-intuitive to not want to report stuff like that? Probably, but I think most people feel the same way in that they just want it over and done with. Thankfully, I haven't had any recent encounters as such.

With how some crews and gangs operate, this is very much the case. It is not unheard of for groups to act in response to incidents that might have had unfortunate implications for one of their own. Already crime rolplay seems more focused on script gains rather than roleplay, what is to stop the only very slight jump to lethal coincidence?

 

Given the decision of pursuing OOC justice against one with the cost of my character's life after some arranged encounter, or simply leaving it be and keeping quiet, the choice seems obvious, no? 

Edited July 1, 2020 by DasFroggy

[TranXify]

Just now, Lemonade319 said:

You know what it’s fine if those who are complaining about it don’t want to report, that’s up to them. However, to not report about and then complain about it over and over is beyond silly. If you’re not going to report it when it happens you don’t deserve to complain about it. You’re clearly not that upset with the RP if it wasn’t worth your time to make a report.

 

I think that's honestly looking at it a bit black and white. I do agree that reports need to be filed in order for change to take place, but I also understand why some people would avoid filing reports. One reason was already highlighted, which is the possibility that the owner/victim simply wants the RP to be over with so they can just forget about it, or keep their interaction with the criminals to a minimum. However, another possible reason which was not highlighted and I believe affects some people is the possibility of backlash and being unsure of what is "good portrayal of extortion" and "bad portrayal of extortion". You see, if you file a report on a criminal faction / individual about poor portrayal, who is extorting you, and your report is not sustained... well, now the person who is extorting your character very likely is not a big fan of you OOCly and might even be holding a grudge against you. Now, you might get into bigger shit, have to pay a higher price, have the person be a nuisance in some way, get harassed, or have them try to find any reason to CK you. Orrrrrrrr, none of that might happen and they might not see the situation any differently and not allow their emotions affect their IC actions. However, the possibility is there.

 

I did not create this thread with the intention of /complaining/ about the state of extortion. I highlighted questionable actions that I've observed, and was simply wondering about the opinions of other individuals to have a better judgement and understanding of the situation as a whole. I do not think that's a sin.

[Lemonade319]

3 minutes ago, TranXify said:

I think that's honestly looking at it a bit black and white. I do agree that reports need to be filed in order for change to take place, but I also understand why some people would avoid filing reports. One reason was already highlighted, which is the possibility that the owner/victim simply wants the RP to be over with so they can just forget about it, or keep their interaction with the criminals to a minimum. However, another possible reason which was not highlighted and I believe affects some people is the possibility of backlash and being unsure of what is "good portrayal of extortion" and "bad portrayal of extortion". You see, if you file a report on a criminal faction / individual about poor portrayal, who is extorting you, and your report is not sustained... well, now the person who is extorting your character very likely is not a big fan of you OOCly and might even be holding a grudge against you. Now, you might get into bigger shit, have to pay a higher price, have the person be a nuisance in some way, get harassed, or have them try to find any reason to CK you. Orrrrrrrr, none of that might happen and they might not see the situation any differently and not allow their emotions affect their IC actions. However, the possibility is there.

 

I did not create this thread with the intention of /complaining/ about the state of extortion. I highlighted questionable actions that I've observed, and was simply wondering about the opinions of other individuals to have a better judgement and understanding of the situation as a whole. I do not think that's a sin.

If they take an ooc report ICly then report them further. Another approach people could take is to contact the faction hierarchy and let them know about it, provide them proof and let them know the RP is bad, unrealistic whatever. I know for a fact, with the group of people i tend to RP with if they were to be sent evidence of me RPing in a bad way they’d get a grip of me and tell me to wise up. This is how every faction should be.

 

I wasn’t talking about you specifically, but others who claim to have been in such situations over and over again.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Lemonade319

[Chef]

1 minute ago, TranXify said:

You see, if you file a report on a criminal faction / individual about poor portrayal, who is extorting you, and your report is not sustained... well, now the person who is extorting your character very likely is not a big fan of you OOCly and might even be holding a grudge against you. Now, you might get into bigger shit, have to pay a higher price, have the person be a nuisance in some way, get harassed, or have them try to find any reason to CK you. Orrrrrrrr, none of that might happen and they might not see the situation any differently and not allow their emotions affect their IC actions. However, the possibility is there.

That's called mixing OOC and IC and it's against the rules. They'd get in even bigger shit for pulling that after they've already been reported, they'd basically be asking for a permanent ban. 

 

There's really no excuse for not reporting something that is against the rules or poor portrayal.

[DasFroggy]

Just now, Lemonade319 said:

If they take an ooc report ICly then report them further. Another approach people could take is to contact the faction hierarchy and let them know about it, provide them proof and let them know the RP is bad, unrealistic whatever. I know for a fact, with the group of people i tend to RP with if they were to be sent evidence of me RPing in a bad way they’d get a grip of me and tell me to wise up. This is how every faction should be.

The problem is, there is literally nothing that can be done to prove it if the people responsible are competent. Interactions can seem entirely random if coordinated with even a little skill, and outcomes are vastly easier to dictate when the aggressor has any number more than the one they wish to act against.

 

What do we report?  ...when by realistic coincidence, it is one of a crime organization that has been hit by your car or targeted you for a mugging they couldn't quite carry out, thus creating a completely legitimate reason for an IC grudge.

 

It does not help that this is a behavior that is specifically also a key component to be successful with criminal activity. The same tools that make the most successful criminals IC, are equally if not more useful with discreetly handling OOC affairs.

 

Now, if there was some assurance that a group be investigated randomly and thoroughly if one of their members was reported successfully, I could see reports being practical. It would even teach into each a greater emphasis on proper roleplay, rather than underhanded OOC shenanigans.

[TranXify]

5 minutes ago, Chef said:

That's called mixing OOC and IC and it's against the rules. They'd get in even bigger shit for pulling that after they've already been reported, they'd basically be asking for a permanent ban. 

 

There's really no excuse for not reporting something that is against the rules or poor portrayal.

You'd have to prove that first, which can prove difficult. If the criminals really want to, and with enough time, they can probably find a reason to somehow cause you nuisance that is justified. Also, sending in multiple reports that are not sustained make you look like the bad person. Once again, with no rules regarding extortion at all, it is difficult to know whether it is portrayed realistically or not. I can't speak on behalf of others, but if I find myself in a situation where I am considering reporting someone, I would only do it when I am 100% sure that it is poor rp/portrayal/rule breaking.

Edited July 1, 2020 by TranXify

[Queen]

17 minutes ago, Lemonade319 said:

You’re clearly not that upset with the RP if it wasn’t worth your time to make a report.

 

Yes, that's what I said - the RP didn't make me upset enough to file a report, even if it was kind of wack. I let it slip because no real harm came of it.

 

22 minutes ago, Lemonade319 said:

You know what it’s fine if those who are complaining about it don’t want to report, that’s up to them. However, to not report about and then complain about it over and over is beyond silly. If you’re not going to report it when it happens you don’t deserve to complain about it.

I dunno, I think that's looking at it a bit harshly. After all this isn't a suggestion thread that's actively trying to impose new rules, it's just general discussion, I think people can offer up their frustrations if they'd like. As for me personally, I don't deal with it often enough to really care, as I don't own a business anymore. 

[Engelbert]

You know in real life there's not this much chaos regarding extortion becaaaaaause...gangs and organizations have their turfs or territories. A gang that "owns" a block doesn't go across the whole city to extort a small shop on the otherside, cause they'd get gunned down. If nothing else, for a group that's extorting, new kids on the block doing the same, should mean loss of money at least.

And criminal organizations protect their assests. Server in this case lacks consistency or mind you a roadmap,

Something that would tell us, this is Hillside Trece, this is Culver turf etc etc. Yes, but what about organizations that don't really have their turfs cause they are not gangs? Everyone has their turf, it only depends on strength of said organization. As in real life, you have manpower, money and guns to do it? By all means set out to get more territory for you. By all means start taxing gangs for just leaving them alive. Start taxing drug dealers on your turf that are not yours already, anything. That's how it works, thing is...random groups try

to extort same shops over and over again, that's the issue here. Just like the 24/7 and gas station in Davis was being robbed 3 times per day, by different groups. Why? Cause there was roleplay involved. Cause there were players actually managing it. That's the issue.

Server needs more businesses and shops, that are player manned, but to do that. Players should feel comfortable to roleplay a shop, which they don't. That's pretty much it. In this case the DEMAND is lot more higher than the SUPPLY.

 

And cherry on top, this is also one of reasons why players are lately encouraged to join existing faction before starting new ones, cause apart from other reason, the city we roleplay in, is running out of space for gangs and groups of criminals. Its getting overcrowded.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Engelbert

[jcat]

3 hours ago, Lemonade319 said:

If you’re not going to report it when it happens you don’t deserve to complain about it.

 

 

This isn't a court case, it's players discussing their experiences in response to the original post, and they have every right to say what they want to say.

 

No one wants to clog up the /report queue with complaints about annoying poorly portrayed rp that's probably within the rules of the server.

 

No one is going to provide "evidence" that shitty annoying rp did in fact occur, not in a discussion thread.  The place for that is a player report, and that's for real rule violations.

 

Some annoying roleplay just happened today.  I even took screenshots.  And, I'm not going to publicly criticize the players involved by posting those screenshots in a discussion thread when the rp was within server rules and handled IC.  By discussing it without shaming other players, players who want to improve their rp can read what people really think and then decide to improve their rp game.