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Warrants and Police Raids.


Max3

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3 minutes ago, Jola said:

The court system forces people to take guilty pleas nobody wants to wait in jail for two weeks, its a game. Getting into the PD takes 3 days but a court hearing takes two weeks lol

Many people seem to forget it's a game too. The whole law enforcement system on this server seems to aim for OOC punishment instead of IC, 5k fines are thrown around for small driving offences all the time and that's just 1 small thing. Money isn't hard to make for some players but I'm sure there's a lot of players struggling to make 5-10k per hour and with how funky this game's physics are that's a little dumb (a bump on the road could make your car accelerate a few extra mph and if a cop sees you, have fun paying the 5k fine). 

 

Also I'd like to add the whole system seems to extremely favor the police (that may be realistic but it doesn't help keeping the server fun), if the police fucks up it's up to you to deal with it and spend days or weeks waiting to get it solved IC'ly while they just carry on.

 

Edited by Shiro
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Police role-players do get enough probable cause in the realm of the game to request warrants. All justices within JSA are knowledgeable individuals who approve these warrants. If it turns out a warrant's less than it was meant to be, they get dealt with.

 

I think the issue isn't warrants and how they're acquired. I agree that if you just don't want to get caught then you need to get smarter and the new criminal points system which tries to portray a three-strike conviction basis helps that, because you need to get smarter or get people to do what you need done for you.

 

I think the issue stems from misunderstanding of certain fundamental aspects of police role-play and US law by those who portray police. I know that on the Sheriff's Department side, we stress a lot on case law and we focus a lot on making people understand that this is nothing they've ever been apart before and while their experience is valuable, it does not prepare them to role-play cops who're accountable in court and whose arrests just might not make it through. Nobody has ever been that prepared to be thorough in order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone's guilty because most role-play servers allow cops to be judges, jurors and executioners at the same time. It's why everybody actually learns that here. I have witnessed that far too little police employees get in trouble for getting their arrests thrown out in court when it's clearly their fault for doing a sloppy job. That should never happen. IC actions have IC consequences and losing convictions is detrimental to one's job as a cop. This goes for both law enforcement factions meanwhile I'm apart of one.

 

I also think the misinterpretation of US law and legal aspects also stems into FaceBrowser and whatever's posted on that platform. I see a lot of people very stringent and weird about why or how someone holds a gun. I'm sorry but we portray a metropolis on the west coast of the US. I'm not going to tell anybody how common or uncommon guns are, but I know for sure nobody gives a shit about people posting guns on social media to go off of because it's merely circumstantial. The issue from here goes on to what I mentioned in the first bit of this post about criminal role-players role-playing getting smarter — if you have an established criminal character, with a record, who always or more often than not gets involved in hands on illicit business, it's probably best not to rep the /anim aim stance fuck twelve CopK LameK FxCK x24 attitude on social media because you make no sense and I think it's perfectly fine that cops profit off of silly decisions such as doing the above.

 

I think people, and by this I mean police role-players, need to loosen up, especially on guns. Guns are already heavily regulated on an OOC basis because the server administration wants to make sure there's no deathmatching, stock-piling or otherwise anything on the wrong side of the server rules going on with guns because guns can always ruin the game very easily and prompt people to make decisions they wouldn't otherwise. I think everybody cries wolf for no reason when they see a gun in someone's hand and they type their name on the PD forum to find out they never filed for a weapon license in one of the 50 states of the US and one of the many nations and countries on this globe. It goes by the live-and-let-live principle to not be overzealous over this kind of stuff. I can link you tons of real social media accounts with guns on display where those pictures can't be used anywhere because they just don't constitute nothing conclusive.

 

Warrants shouldn't be approved for as little as enough evidence to prove that someone is, indeed, on an OOC basis, breaking the IC law. People need to prove and link those to IC basis. A lot of the time evidence in warrants resonate a lot more in seeing nametags or proving that indeed someone's breaking the law and I can see how that prompts a well elaborated warrant with a picture off of Facebrowser and a snipped of a PD forum search to get approved. They unfortunately shouldn't, at least not based on that alone at least.

Edited by liq
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2 hours ago, Max3 said:

In GTAW a house was raided because of a picture of a man holding a gun on Facebrowser. What if it was a fake gun? What if it was an airsoft gun? There is no way that police in real life would be able to get a warrant granted for a picture with a gun, or would PD even try to push for a warrant.

I'll just chime in to this part and say that it's 100% realistic and I've seen it happen. LAPD got a warrant on a friend's house one time because he was a dumb 16 yr old at the time and showed off a realistically-painted airsoft AK on social media.

Edited by Havana
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1 hour ago, Big_Smokes said:

 

I suggest you try reaching out. My name is Smokey#3454 on discord. I'd love to hear exactly what you have an issue with and how me and my faction can help improve on that front. My DM's are open to anyone and everyone.

I've reached out to you before, I did not get a reply. I was as polite and respectful with my message as I've ever been too. We hear the same answers over and over again. 

 

Id love to quote and debunk every aspect of this thread, particularly BigSmokes replies that I have an issue with. @Henning already did a pretty solid job with that though, so I'll just say +1 to his posts. 

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Just now, Havana said:

I'll just chime in to this part and say that it's 100% realistic and I've seen it happen. LAPD got a warrant on a friend's house one time because he was a dumb 16 yr old at the time and showed off a realistically-painted AK on social media.

A lot of things can be considered realistic, police brutality is very realistic but I don't think we wanna see them shooting or beating everyone up for the smallest thing. Balance is needed to keep a game fun.

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Just now, Kaxo said:

I've reached out to you before, I did not get a reply. I was as polite and respectful with my message as I've ever been too. We hear the same answers over and over again. 

 

Id love to quote and debunk every aspect of this thread, particularly BigSmokes replies that I have an issue with. @Henning already did a pretty solid job with that though, so I'll just say +1 to his posts. 

Sorry dude, people miss messages. I apologize for that but what can you do ?‍♂️. I apologized in private as well and will try to get to it as soon as I can. I do however repeatedly engage with people in private to answer their questions, including @Henning and many others that have forwarded criticism before.

 

Also, I would invite you to please present your side of this where you feel that I said something wrong. I have expressed that we try to do as much quality control ourselves as we can, but that the buck stops with the JSA. I'm not entirely sure what more there is to be said on the subject.

Edited by Big_Smokes
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7 minutes ago, liq said:

 I have witnessed that far too little police employees get in trouble for getting their arrests thrown out in court when it's clearly their fault for doing a sloppy job. That should never happen. IC actions have IC consequences and losing convictions is detrimental to one's job as a cop.

Building on this point, I think the punishments that are being handed out to officer OOCly isn't enough. Firing an officer for fucking up but allowing that player to make a new LEO character does nothing to deter bad behavior. If I'm killed out of an illegal faction, rarely would I be allowed to create a new character to continue RPing with said faction. Being killed/kicked from a illegal faction is very much an OOC/IC thing however in the realm of LEO RP it seems anything IC must be 100% punished IC which does very little to correct a play to win mentality in a player.

 

Illegal RPers ESPECIALLY the whites, blacks and mexican gangs are required to police they're ranks at an OOC level. If one faction member fucks up we have to nip it in the butt immediately and for the most part we all do. However LEO's and especially the LSPD seem hell bent on stopping any OOC punishments for it's members, especially if that punishment means permanently losing a member. 

 

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After reading through this thread I'm a little disappointed that a lot of the feedback has just come out of spite of being caught in-game, like that's PD's fault. 

 

Guns may be common in the United States but if you're flashing an automatic around on Social Media then expect your door to be kicked down. It happens all the time in real life.

 

I can see the viewpoint of feeling disappointed that an investigation can only take a few days. A lot of points on this thread have been that you shouldn't have to spend your time contesting charges or situations in court and PD should just "get good". Why wouldn't illegal RPers just "get good" and stop handing investigators evidence of a crime on a silver platter?

 

If you're not willing to go along with the story because something happened that wasn't in your favour then that's on you. Don't complain if you aren't going to take steps that we have to contest it within the court. That's roleplay.

 

JSA is very objective and critical of PD/SD, which they should be. Go with the story and take your charges to court.

Edited by FullyCanadian
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5 minutes ago, Henning said:

Building on this point, I think the punishments that are being handed out to officer OOCly isn't enough. Firing an officer for fucking up but allowing that player to make a new LEO character does nothing to deter bad behavior. If I'm killed out of an illegal faction, rarely would I be allowed to create a new character to continue RPing with said faction. Being killed/kicked from a illegal faction is very much an OOC/IC thing however in the realm of LEO RP it seems anything IC must be 100% punished IC which does very little to correct a play to win mentality in a player.

 

Illegal RPers ESPECIALLY the whites, blacks and mexican gangs are required to police they're ranks at an OOC level. If one faction member fucks up we have to nip it in the butt immediately and for the most part we all do. However LEO's and especially the LSPD seem hell bent on stopping any OOC punishments for it's members, especially if that punishment means permanently losing a member. 

 

 

If people have a clear play to win mentality, they get straight up removed from the faction out of character. Their IC situation has nothing to do with that nor should it. I would lie if I said I didn't care about retention, but I suggest you speak to the people which got the [termination] tag between OOC brackets because they fucked up whether they agree with you on this stance or not.

 

Both punishment and course correction have their place in life. Don't be too fast to deal in extremes.

 

Also, on the topic of people not being punished enough? Perhaps the person that made that very post should start investing more time in doing exactly that if they feel there is a deficit.

Edited by Big_Smokes
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