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Warrants and Police Raids.


Max3

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Just now, Big_Smokes said:

I was replying to someone else who replied on this thread. What does surveillance have to do with any of this? For all you know we had a whole databank full of information on the person prior to that picture ever being posted. That's not how detective roleplay works in the slightest. You would be surprised at the size and detail of our information databanks that detectives/intelligence officers/patrol officers maintain on the people they interact with. Our paperwork machine is massive. That being said, it's even shared between ourselves and the Sheriffs Department's Detective Bureau for this exact reason.

 

You said you could have surveyed and I said I wish y'all had launched a longer investigation than 2 days.

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3 minutes ago, Big_Smokes said:

 

Even if my entire faction couldn't spell the words ''probable cause'', it wouldn't make a difference. We can't give ourselves warrants. All warrants are signed off on by the JSA, whose ultimate responsibility it is to ensure we meet the standards required to meet the threshold of probable cause.

 

People don't just get caught because they pose with a gun on facebrowser. Just because you don't know the ins and out of the process doesn't make it all metagaming.

"Technically we don't approve warrants so it's not our fault if they get approved without meeting the requirements."

 

Shouldn't PD be holding itself to a higher standard if JSA isn't? Your faction is the one who puts together these investigations and executes the warrants, at the end of the day your the ones responsible for making sure they are correct.

 

Honestly these two excuses keep coming out of PD, "Oh our info is sensitive so we can't explain to you why we do things a certain way" and "Don't blame us, X approved it so we took it IC".

 

But this is a game, the only information that's even slightly "Sensitive" is active investigations against factions/individuals. Your procedures, methods and the inner workings of the LEO RP genre as a whole is not sensitive. Additionally just because one person fucked up and took it IC doesn't mean you get to force everyone else to take it IC as well, which seems to be a common trend. If PD is fucking up they should be getting faction strikes, not sued IC.

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Just now, Max3 said:

No I don't because that's a huge waste of everybody involved's time lmfao.

I'm not talking about full realism I'm just asking for what everyone thought about warrants, as I find that they could improve. Yes I know gun dogs exist hence why the suggestion is about warrants not gun dogs.

 

Sorry I may have mixed in something that was meant for someone else that replied here, my bad on that.

 

Like I asked before though, what do you believe could be improved? Contrary to what I've read before, I'd be more then happy to look into anything really if you've got feedback on it. I'm just not exactly sure what it is that your gripe is with. Is it the volume of warrants we get? Because it's honestly not that high as you think, sometimes we just get warrants on multiple properties. Is it the way we execute them? I'm just saying I'm not sure what it is that you've got a gripe with now that you know we're not sitting around patting ourselves on the back giving out search warrants like there's no tomorrow, because we can't.

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5 minutes ago, Henning said:

"Technically we don't approve warrants so it's not our fault if they get approved without meeting the requirements."

 

Shouldn't PD be holding itself to a higher standard if JSA isn't? Your faction is the one who puts together these investigations and executes the warrants, at the end of the day your the ones responsible for making sure they are correct.

 

Honestly these two excuses keep coming out of PD, "Oh our info is sensitive so we can't explain to you why we do things a certain way" and "Don't blame us, X approved it so we took it IC".

 

But this is a game, the only information that's even slightly "Sensitive" is active investigations against factions/individuals. Your procedures, methods and the inner workings of the LEO RP genre as a whole is not sensitive. Additionally just because one person fucked up and took it IC doesn't mean you get to force everyone else to take it IC as well, which seems to be a common trend. If PD is fucking up they should be getting faction strikes, not sued IC.

 

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wasn't, I simply said that if bad warrants are being signed off on, that THAT is the JSA's responsibility. Sergeants review the warrants written by their officers. The Police Training and Education Division has courses on report writing and helps officers out that want their work reviewed. There are several guides available on our forums to officers which include the nitty gritty of law, probable cause, writing affidavits, the whole shebang. We make absolutely sure our guys don't send out bullshit warrants and have a mutual understanding with the JSA on quality control.

 

That being said, you're working off of the assumption our warrants are bad. They're not. If they were, the legal eagle who's in charge of JSA would be up my ass to improve the quality, if not my own faction members who have a hard on for making sure everything is above board. 

 

And well yes, some of it is secretive and for a good reason. Incitement to metagaming is a thing. I'm not going to show you pictures of how I did surveillance on you because it's already hard enough to do it without just giving the info out on the forums. Detective roleplay is not easy, not by a longshot.

 

None of my faction members have ever been caught falsifying information on warrants of any sort except for one that made a genuine mistake, which was dealt with by myself and legal faction management when it was brought to me by the player. Other then that, we have very high standards when it comes to warrants and will absolutely destroy anyone who thinks they can falsify OOC information for a quick IG win. 

 

I'm not giving you excuses, I'm explaining to you directly how the system works.

 

When it comes to general LEO RP, I wouldn't say we're being secretive about it at all. Just because I don't post my manual on the main forums doesn't mean I'm not willing to explain things in the exact way they work. I've done so in the past both IC and OOC when things have come up, just as I'm doing now with the process of obtaining warrants.

Edited by Big_Smokes
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4 minutes ago, Max3 said:

You said you could have surveyed and I said I wish y'all had launched a longer investigation than 2 days.

What does time spent have to do with anything? I'm sorry, I'm not getting your point bro. Why should we spend longer than 2 days on an investigation if the information is already there?

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Just out of general curiosity, is it possible to see what a blank warrant looks like? I'm just curious to see what kind of information is in there. Also, is it possible to get a copy of your warrant if you're arrested or have your house searched based on one? I know that it's a right in real life, but I don't know if that's portrayed on the server.

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  • Syrike locked and unlocked this topic

One thing that I'd like to add is that it's very easy to contest an arrest warrant. If you plead not-guilty or no contest, then you can have your case brought up for trial and that judge is going to scrutinize the arrest warrant, any search warrants and all documentations. If the PD/SD made a mistake then that will certainly have consequences.

Edited by BinaryRun
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6 minutes ago, Syrike said:

I'll unlock this, however if this is a thing you believe it is happening my earlier words still apply, it should be a complaint you take to FM.

The point of this thread is to see if other people are experiencing the same problem. I don't think any change will come out of a general discussions thread or else I would have posted it in suggestions. This is the first step, I'm trying to see if it's an actual problem on the server or just me looking at it sideways.

Edited by Max3
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